Rate CoA Clerkship Chances

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Anonymous User
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Rate CoA Clerkship Chances

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:38 am

I know, I know...still, would appreciate it very much.

CCN
Top 5-10%
Secondary Journal (Board position TBD and this is something I'd really like information about)
1L summer at a top USAO AND RA-ed for a notable prof.
2L summer at a V5 in NYC (for what its worth in a judge's eyes)
Should have awesome recs, have taken classes with 2 Fed. Dist. Judges, 1 CoA judge, Dean of the LS + the Prof I RA-ed for.

I'm picky as to location and SURPRISE! the places I want to live are also the most competitive. Would be interested in 2/9/DC/7/1.

Really curious as to whether I need a good board position. Doubtful I'll have published by App time, but I will have a strong paper plus some good samples.

Thanks!

Younger Abstention
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Re: Rate CoA Clerkship Chances

Postby Younger Abstention » Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:39 am

Excellent chance with all but the major feeders. The only thing that sort of harms you is the no law review, but if you have secondary board with top grades that should be fine.

Anonymous User
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Re: Rate CoA Clerkship Chances

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:59 am

OP here.

I don't actually have a board slot yet, but applications are coming up. I'm wondering how important it is that I secure a spot and if so, what sort. Any thoughts?

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Re: Rate CoA Clerkship Chances

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:12 am

Anonymous User wrote:I know, I know...still, would appreciate it very much.

CCN
Top 5-10%
Secondary Journal (Board position TBD and this is something I'd really like information about)
1L summer at a top USAO AND RA-ed for a notable prof.
2L summer at a V5 in NYC (for what its worth in a judge's eyes)
Should have awesome recs, have taken classes with 2 Fed. Dist. Judges, 1 CoA judge, Dean of the LS + the Prof I RA-ed for.

I'm picky as to location and SURPRISE! the places I want to live are also the most competitive. Would be interested in 2/9/DC/7/1.

Really curious as to whether I need a good board position. Doubtful I'll have published by App time, but I will have a strong paper plus some good samples.

Thanks!


Top 10% at CCN without Law Review has a good chance at a COA. But, you have extremely low odds in DC Cir - there will be plenty of Top 1-2% with Law Review from T6 applying. Plus, that circuit is already heavily weighted towards HYS. If by 1st Circuit you really mean Boston, then very low odds as well. Likewise, if by 7th Circuit you really mean Chicago, then very low odds as well. There are not that many judges in either Boston or Chicago. In 2d/9th you'll have better odds, especially if you're in a NYC school and have profs who: (a) know judges and (b) will really go to bat for you.

You would probably do far better if you expand your geographic area. There are great judges in all the other circuits, many of whom are sitting in sizable cities. It's only one year of your life and there's absolutely no reason to limit yourself geographically in such an arbitrary manner.

Finally, you should definitely do board on your secondary journal. You'll be competing with applicants who: (a) have better grades than you, (b) are on law review, (c) are on law review executive board, and (d) have published. Doing the minimal possible work is not an effective strategy for standing out from the crowd.

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leobowski
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Re: Rate CoA Clerkship Chances

Postby leobowski » Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:50 pm

You have a decent shot and it's definitely worth applying. Start talking to your recommenders and have your app ready to go in May/June. Good luck.

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Re: Rate CoA Clerkship Chances

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:10 pm

OP here.

Thanks for the feedback. Any idea of solid other CoA courts in areas a northeastern yuppie type would be content?

I'm thinking maybe 4th if I were in VA, 5th in New Orleans or Austin, or 3rd in Philly.

Frankly, beyond those (And possible suggestions) I'd prefer a really good district court clerkship in an area I like. As someone who wants to litigate, I'm not at all averse to a solid district option.

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Re: Rate CoA Clerkship Chances

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:36 pm

4th Cir in Baltimore, Raleigh, Charlotte, or Alexandria
5th Cir in Austin, New Orleans, Dallas or Houston
10th Cir in Denver, Oklahoma City, or New Mexico
11th Cir in Atlanta, Miami, or Tampa
There are nice cities outside the Northeast. Take a good look.

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Re: Rate CoA Clerkship Chances

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:03 am

Curious about chances as well, as I'm in similar situation to OP but less fortunate.

CCN
Outside top 10%, maybe Top 15-20%
Secondary Journal, Aiming for Senior Articles Editor
1L summer RAing for a couple of profs
2L summer at V20
Recs should be decent but not spectacular, profs I ra'ed for, maybe my note advisor or seminar profs.
Aiming to have note published

Curious about 2nd/3rd/9th COA and very curious about SDNY, as well as SDNY -> CoA

Especially interested in how difficult SDNY is in comparison to the least difficult CoA spots and whether it is better to choose it over them. Thanks for any and all advice.

Anonymous User
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Re: Rate CoA Clerkship Chances

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:18 am

Anonymous User wrote:Curious about chances as well, as I'm in similar situation to OP but less fortunate.

CCN
Outside top 10%, maybe Top 15-20%
Secondary Journal, Aiming for Senior Articles Editor
1L summer RAing for a couple of profs
2L summer at V20
Recs should be decent but not spectacular, profs I ra'ed for, maybe my note advisor or seminar profs.
Aiming to have note published

Curious about 2nd/3rd/9th COA and very curious about SDNY, as well as SDNY -> CoA

Especially interested in how difficult SDNY is in comparison to the least difficult CoA spots and whether it is better to choose it over them. Thanks for any and all advice.


A couple thoughts here.

First, 2d/9th are probably not going to happen. This will be a bit judge dependent, however, outside the top 5% at CCN you'll have a big uphill battle. Further, you don't have law review or strong recommendations which makes it more difficult.

As to the 3d, it will be dependent on your school and your professors connections. Admittedly, I do not know as much about the 3d, but they seem to be very oriented towards hiring from certain schools.

You should be open to applying very broadly. You'll have very stiff competition in all the COA's and many of those you're competing against will be top 5%, law review, and have strong recommendations. But, if you're willing to apply broadly, then you'll greatly increase your odds.

As to SDNY, from my understanding, this will be quite an up hill battle. More of the judges are looking to hire alumni and those who don't hire alumni are often picking up clerks with solid COA credentials.

That said if you apply broadly, then you'll have better odds of landing a district court clerkship. In addition to the major districts (SDNY, EDNY, DDC, EDVA, NDIL, CDCA, NDCA), apply to the neighboring districts (DNJ, EDPA, DMD, etc.).

Anonymous User
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Re: Rate CoA Clerkship Chances

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:21 am

Anonymous User wrote:OP here.

Thanks for the feedback. Any idea of solid other CoA courts in areas a northeastern yuppie type would be content?

I'm thinking maybe 4th if I were in VA, 5th in New Orleans or Austin, or 3rd in Philly.

Frankly, beyond those (And possible suggestions) I'd prefer a really good district court clerkship in an area I like. As someone who wants to litigate, I'm not at all averse to a solid district option.


You're only going to be living somewhere for a year. Don't be so picky. You'll miss out on good judges if you're too picky about where you'll live for a year. Living in a great city will be utterly miserable for a less than friendly judge. Honestly, since you're not in the feeder category, you should probably be focusing on judges that would be the best fit / best to work for.

Anonymous User
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Re: Rate CoA Clerkship Chances

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
OP here.

Thanks for the feedback. Any idea of solid other CoA courts in areas a northeastern yuppie type would be content?

I'm thinking maybe 4th if I were in VA, 5th in New Orleans or Austin, or 3rd in Philly.

Frankly, beyond those (And possible suggestions) I'd prefer a really good district court clerkship in an area I like. As someone who wants to litigate, I'm not at all averse to a solid district option.


You're only going to be living somewhere for a year. Don't be so picky. You'll miss out on good judges if you're too picky about where you'll live for a year. Living in a great city will be utterly miserable for a less than friendly judge. Honestly, since you're not in the feeder category, you should probably be focusing on judges that would be the best fit / best to work for.


I agree I shouldn't be too stingy on location, but my point wasn't to poo-poo the many great judges outside of the coasts. It's just that unlike a lot of my peers, I'm not interested solely in a CoA position. I'd probably be more content with a great judge in a District Court somewhere I like living rather than with a great CoA judge in an area I have no interest in.

That said, the above poster was very helpful with his list and I will bear it in mind going forward.

theaccidentalclerk
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Re: Rate CoA Clerkship Chances

Postby theaccidentalclerk » Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:42 pm

apply to the neighboring districts (DNJ, EDPA, DMD, etc.).


The ND Indiana also has six Article III judges in Hammond (4) and South Bend (2). The former is in the inner ring Chicago suburbs, and the latter is a short drive or train ride to the city (too far to commute, but close enough to head into the city on weekends).

Anonymous User
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Re: Rate CoA Clerkship Chances

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:47 pm

Rate chances:

CCN top 5% (Catch: I'm a transfer. Top 1% at 1L school)
On LR (Going to assume no ed board)
Have had trouble forming personal relationships with professors at new school, so letters probably will be mediocre at best.

Not picky with area. I just don't dont know how things are going to pan out being a transfer without personal connections to professors.

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Rate CoA Clerkship Chances

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:47 pm

G. T. L. Rev. wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
OP here.

Thanks for the feedback. Any idea of solid other CoA courts in areas a northeastern yuppie type would be content?

I'm thinking maybe 4th if I were in VA, 5th in New Orleans or Austin, or 3rd in Philly.

Frankly, beyond those (And possible suggestions) I'd prefer a really good district court clerkship in an area I like. As someone who wants to litigate, I'm not at all averse to a solid district option.


You're only going to be living somewhere for a year. Don't be so picky. You'll miss out on good judges if you're too picky about where you'll live for a year. Living in a great city will be utterly miserable for a less than friendly judge. Honestly, since you're not in the feeder category, you should probably be focusing on judges that would be the best fit / best to work for.


I agree I shouldn't be too stingy on location, but my point wasn't to poo-poo the many great judges outside of the coasts. It's just that unlike a lot of my peers, I'm not interested solely in a CoA position. I'd probably be more content with a great judge in a District Court somewhere I like living rather than with a great CoA judge in an area I have no interest in.

That said, the above poster was very helpful with his list and I will bear it in mind going forward.

This is totally fair on your part. If you want to live in a big, coastal city, and you would rather not clerk (or clerk on a "lower" level court) than live elsewhere, there is no problem with that. My sense is that you would have a pretty decent shot with SDNY/EDNY and similar district courts, so pairing those apps with the COAs you mentioned is a reasonable approach.
The problem with this, as I see it, is that most if not all district hiring happens on plan. There are a lot of COA judges that will be done hiring over the summer. So if your decision tree goes like: 2/9/DC > SDNY/EDNY/CDCal/NDIll > 1/4/7/11 you could very easily run into the problem of having a "lesser" COA job in hand before the district judges you'd rather work for are hiring.




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