T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

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Old Gregg
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Re: T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

Postby Old Gregg » Sat Jan 07, 2012 7:33 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
Fresh Prince wrote:
to bill 3000 hours a year doing litigation but actually be compensated accordingly (Quinn,


LOL


I understand the different strokes for different folks thing, but it amazes me how many people actually desire those types of jobs. I understand the desire to make a lot of money, but with the way things are set up you really don't even get that with the NYC megafirms. I don't know the hours differences but I just don't see why you'd go Cravath or Sullivan over Paul Weiss for example. You'll make the same amount of money but you'll be working even worse hours (which is really incredible considering that you won't be working light hours at Paul Weiss either).


More laughing at the fact that Quinn's bonuses were shit this year. Yes, they went above market, but the money they gave to high billers was practically insulting. Even Susman's weren't that great, but they were good. Boies's was truly jaw-dropping.

With respect to choosing S&C or Cravath over Paul Weiss or whatever:

(1) I guarantee you that you'll be working similar hours at Paul Weiss.

(2) Each of those firms has different strengths and weaknesses. If you want to do capital markets work, for instance, going to S&C is your best bet. However, unlike in the boom years, you can no longer credibly claim to being compensated at the top of the market at that firm.

Anyway, this thread is getting dumb. OP wants to do corporate work. I don't see why it's relevant that Susman, Quinn, Boies, etc. pay more than Cravath. OP stated at the outset he wants to do corporate work. If he were to attain an offer at a V5, he would have the option of working at some of the best corporate firms in the world. Full stop.

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Re: T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:35 pm

Fresh Prince wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:
Fresh Prince wrote:
to bill 3000 hours a year doing litigation but actually be compensated accordingly (Quinn,


LOL


I understand the different strokes for different folks thing, but it amazes me how many people actually desire those types of jobs. I understand the desire to make a lot of money, but with the way things are set up you really don't even get that with the NYC megafirms. I don't know the hours differences but I just don't see why you'd go Cravath or Sullivan over Paul Weiss for example. You'll make the same amount of money but you'll be working even worse hours (which is really incredible considering that you won't be working light hours at Paul Weiss either).


More laughing at the fact that Quinn's bonuses were shit this year. Yes, they went above market, but the money they gave to high billers was practically insulting. Even Susman's weren't that great, but they were good. Boies's was truly jaw-dropping.

With respect to choosing S&C or Cravath over Paul Weiss or whatever:

(1) I guarantee you that you'll be working similar hours at Paul Weiss.

(2) Each of those firms has different strengths and weaknesses. If you want to do capital markets work, for instance, going to S&C is your best bet. However, unlike in the boom years, you can no longer credibly claim to being compensated at the top of the market at that firm.

Anyway, this thread is getting dumb. OP wants to do corporate work. I don't see why it's relevant that Susman, Quinn, Boies, etc. pay more than Cravath. OP stated at the outset he wants to do corporate work. If he were to attain an offer at a V5, he would have the option of working at some of the best corporate firms in the world. Full stop.


OP here. This is pretty much right, except that I have no interest in Cravath. My goal is just to get into a V10-20ish firm with a reputation for lifestyle (relatively speaking) and corp. work. I am not interested in making any extra bonus.

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Re: T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

Postby Old Gregg » Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. This is pretty much right, except that I have no interest in Cravath. My goal is just to get into a V10-20ish firm with a reputation for lifestyle (relatively speaking) and corp. work. I am not interested in making any extra bonus.


If the office is in NYC, no V10-V20ish has a reputation for lifestyle. Also, corporate is about as antithetical to lifestyle as it gets. Zero respect for your time. Unpredictable. And very time sensitive stuff.

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Re: T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

Postby thesealocust » Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:04 pm

Fresh Prince wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP here. This is pretty much right, except that I have no interest in Cravath. My goal is just to get into a V10-20ish firm with a reputation for lifestyle (relatively speaking) and corp. work. I am not interested in making any extra bonus.


If the office is in NYC, no V10-V20ish has a reputation for lifestyle. Also, corporate is about as antithetical to lifestyle as it gets. Zero respect for your time. Unpredictable. And very time sensitive stuff.


Thank God you arrived to tell OP that working at a law firm is hard. What WOULD he have done otherwise!

Don't waste your time applying for a job you prefer making more money with better exit options in a superior location, or else you might wind up having to work hard!!!11!!1one

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Re: T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:16 pm

Fresh Prince wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP here. This is pretty much right, except that I have no interest in Cravath. My goal is just to get into a V10-20ish firm with a reputation for lifestyle (relatively speaking) and corp. work. I am not interested in making any extra bonus.


If the office is in NYC, no V10-V20ish has a reputation for lifestyle. Also, corporate is about as antithetical to lifestyle as it gets. Zero respect for your time. Unpredictable. And very time sensitive stuff.


OP here. It's all relative. Let me put it this way: I want to work for a firm where billing 2800-3000 hours is considered extraordinary/abnormal/rare.

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Re: T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

Postby Old Gregg » Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:22 pm

thesealocust wrote:
Fresh Prince wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP here. This is pretty much right, except that I have no interest in Cravath. My goal is just to get into a V10-20ish firm with a reputation for lifestyle (relatively speaking) and corp. work. I am not interested in making any extra bonus.


If the office is in NYC, no V10-V20ish has a reputation for lifestyle. Also, corporate is about as antithetical to lifestyle as it gets. Zero respect for your time. Unpredictable. And very time sensitive stuff.


Thank God you arrived to tell OP that working at a law firm is hard. What WOULD he have done otherwise!

Don't waste your time applying for a job you prefer making more money with better exit options in a superior location, or else you might wind up having to work hard!!!11!!1one


Stop being a moron.

Of course working at a law firm is hard, but corporate deals work differently than litigation does. Working in NYC is particularly less lifestyle-friendly than other cities. And the OP expressed an interest in relatively more lifestyle firms I was just dashing those hopes.

Also, "superior location"!?!?! You seem like a delusional NYC fanboy. And probably not more money in NYC when you consider CoL. But enjoy your prestige points. I know you're enjoying them a lot. How's that salary advance going for you?

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Re: T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

Postby Old Gregg » Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fresh Prince wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP here. This is pretty much right, except that I have no interest in Cravath. My goal is just to get into a V10-20ish firm with a reputation for lifestyle (relatively speaking) and corp. work. I am not interested in making any extra bonus.


If the office is in NYC, no V10-V20ish has a reputation for lifestyle. Also, corporate is about as antithetical to lifestyle as it gets. Zero respect for your time. Unpredictable. And very time sensitive stuff.


OP here. It's all relative. Let me put it this way: I want to work for a firm where billing 2800-3000 hours is considered extraordinary/abnormal/rare.


I guess. Problem is I'm not sure which one of those will be hunting for 3Ls in corporate. When I was in school, the firms hunting for 3Ls tended to be: Cravath, S&C, Davis Polk, Simpson, Latham, Kirkland, and Paul Weiss, as well as a smattering of other boutiques. None of those firms seem to have a reputation for relative lifestyle.

If you're looking for a New York office that's easier on the hours, check out Hughes Hubbard. Again, they're probably not hiring 3Ls, but firms of that ilk tend to fall in the category of firms you might be looking for. It's in the lower V100, though, so your thirst for prestige might still remain after all is said and done.

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Re: T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:31 pm

Fresh Prince wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Fresh Prince wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP here. This is pretty much right, except that I have no interest in Cravath. My goal is just to get into a V10-20ish firm with a reputation for lifestyle (relatively speaking) and corp. work. I am not interested in making any extra bonus.


If the office is in NYC, no V10-V20ish has a reputation for lifestyle. Also, corporate is about as antithetical to lifestyle as it gets. Zero respect for your time. Unpredictable. And very time sensitive stuff.


OP here. It's all relative. Let me put it this way: I want to work for a firm where billing 2800-3000 hours is considered extraordinary/abnormal/rare.


I guess. Problem is I'm not sure which one of those will be hunting for 3Ls in corporate. When I was in school, the firms hunting for 3Ls tended to be: Cravath, S&C, Davis Polk, Simpson, Latham, Kirkland, and Paul Weiss, as well as a smattering of other boutiques. None of those firms seem to have a reputation for relative lifestyle.

If you're looking for a New York office that's easier on the hours, check out Hughes Hubbard. Again, they're probably not hiring 3Ls, but firms of that ilk tend to fall in the category of firms you might be looking for. It's in the lower V100, though, so your thirst for prestige might still remain after all is said and done.


I never said that I have a great desire for prestige. I am just not happy with doing corp. work in a secondary market at a firm that is not famous for corp. work.

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Re: T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

Postby Old Gregg » Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I never said that I have a great desire for prestige. I am just not happy with doing corp. work in a secondary market for a firm is not famous for corp. work.


There's no firm in the V10, except for Debevoise, that's "famous for corp. work." Beyond that, there is, in my opinion, no famous for corporate work that has average hours that much lower than your typical work-heavy firms (see: WLRK).

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Re: T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

Postby thesealocust » Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:18 pm

Fresh Prince wrote:Also, "superior location"!?!?! You seem like a delusional NYC fanboy.


Either that or the original poster said that he or she wanted to work in a different location. As in, they have a job in place X and would rather be somewhere else, hence somewhere else being a superior location.

Fresh Prince wrote:There's no firm in the V10, except for Debevoise, that's "famous for corp. work."


Image

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Re: T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

Postby Julio_El_Chavo » Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:28 pm

Fresh Prince wrote:There's no firm in the V10, except for Debevoise, that's "famous for corp. work."


You seem ignorant.

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Re: T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

Postby Old Gregg » Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:33 pm

Julio_El_Chavo wrote:
Fresh Prince wrote:There's no firm in the V10, except for Debevoise, that's "famous for corp. work."


You seem ignorant.


I suppose "famous" is open to interpretation. There are firms in the V10 that are good at corporate, certainly amazing: Kirkland, Paul Weiss, Latham, Debevoise. "Famous" to me means more like the storied top rank corporate law firms, of which Debevoise is the only real member in the V10.

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Re: T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

Postby Julio_El_Chavo » Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:35 pm

Fresh Prince wrote:
Julio_El_Chavo wrote:
Fresh Prince wrote:There's no firm in the V10, except for Debevoise, that's "famous for corp. work."


You seem ignorant.


I suppose "famous" is open to interpretation. There are firms in the V10 that are good at corporate, certainly amazing: Kirkland, Paul Weiss, Latham, Debevoise. "Famous" to me means more like the storied top rank corporate law firms, of which Debevoise is the only real member in the V10.


I don't know why you're assaulting us with this Debevoise schtick, but it's really weird and inaccurate. DPW and SullCrom are WAY better known for corp work than Debevoise.

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Re: T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

Postby Old Gregg » Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:37 pm

Julio_El_Chavo wrote:
Fresh Prince wrote:
Julio_El_Chavo wrote:
Fresh Prince wrote:There's no firm in the V10, except for Debevoise, that's "famous for corp. work."


You seem ignorant.


I suppose "famous" is open to interpretation. There are firms in the V10 that are good at corporate, certainly amazing: Kirkland, Paul Weiss, Latham, Debevoise. "Famous" to me means more like the storied top rank corporate law firms, of which Debevoise is the only real member in the V10.


I don't know where you came up with this Debevoise schtick, but it's really weird and inaccurate. DPW and SullCrom and WAY better known for corp work.


No shit they are. But if you took a second to actually read shit, you'd see that I was limiting myself to firms between the V10 and V20.

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Re: T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

Postby Julio_El_Chavo » Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:39 pm

Fresh Prince wrote:No shit they are. But if you took a second to actually read shit, you'd see that I was limiting myself to firms between the V10 and V20.


No. You said:

Fresh Prince wrote:There's no firm in the V10, except for Debevoise, that's "famous for corp. work."

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Re: T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

Postby Old Gregg » Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:40 pm

Julio_El_Chavo wrote:
Fresh Prince wrote:No shit they are. But if you took a second to actually read shit, you'd see that I was limiting myself to firms between the V10 and V20.


No. You said:

Fresh Prince wrote:There's no firm in the V10, except for Debevoise, that's "famous for corp. work."


Ah crap. Guess that was a typo. Meant to say "in the V10-V20." Oh well, jeez woohoo.

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Re: T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

Postby Cavalier » Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:12 am

I was laughing at this thread until I realized the posters might be representative of my future big law colleagues. FML.

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Re: T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

Postby IAFG » Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:46 am

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. This is pretty much right, except that I have no interest in Cravath. My goal is just to get into a V10-20ish firm with a reputation for lifestyle (relatively speaking) and corp. work. I am not interested in making any extra bonus.

Oh god I hate you

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Re: T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

Postby RVP11 » Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I never said that I have a great desire for prestige. I am just not happy with doing corp. work in a secondary market at a firm that is not famous for corp. work.


"I have no great desire for prestige, I just want to leave a perfectly decent firm to go work for a firm that is in a bigger market, has a higher Vault ranking, and is famous for certain kind of work."

It's okay to admit you're prestige-driven, bro. It will make you no different from most law students - who silently judge others based on the Vault ranking of their law firms - and about 99% of TLS.

But you'd do well to put the idea of changing firms in the back of your mind in the meantime. It's unlikely you'll be able to. And it's not the right attitude to have heading into the summer.

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Re: T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

Postby Old Gregg » Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:34 pm

It's okay to admit you're prestige-driven, bro. It will make you no different from most law students - who silently judge others based on the Vault ranking of their law firms - and about 99% of TLS.


Sounds like we have a butthurt victim here.

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Re: T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

Postby RVP11 » Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:44 pm

Fresh Prince wrote:
It's okay to admit you're prestige-driven, bro. It will make you no different from most law students - who silently judge others based on the Vault ranking of their law firms - and about 99% of TLS.


Sounds like we have a butthurt victim here.


Or just someone who recognizes the nature of law school, and this website? I'm not excluding myself - I am attracted to prestige. But maybe not to the same degree as OP.

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Re: T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

Postby Old Gregg » Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:00 pm

RVP11 wrote:
Fresh Prince wrote:
It's okay to admit you're prestige-driven, bro. It will make you no different from most law students - who silently judge others based on the Vault ranking of their law firms - and about 99% of TLS.


Sounds like we have a butthurt victim here.


Or just someone who recognizes the nature of law school, and this website? I'm not excluding myself - I am attracted to prestige. But maybe not to the same degree as OP.


Just remember: There's always detention for kids who call you names. Shit, they might even have to miss recess!

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Re: T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

Postby RVP11 » Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:07 pm

...
Last edited by RVP11 on Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:36 pm

To sort of follow up on OP's question: I'm at CCN, good grades, on Law Review, and have a job with a V5 in NYC lined up for this upcoming summer. I'm expecting my 2L grades to be substantially better than my 1L grades, even with the journal added on top of my workload. I'm thinking now that I made a mistake in putting all my OCI chips on NYC and am entertaining the notion of trying for a different market during 3L OCI. I don't really have a compelling reason, other than that I think I would prefer the lifestyle in the other non-NYC city (it's around the same area where I was born and raised). Ideas?

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Re: T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

Postby Old Gregg » Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:To sort of follow up on OP's question: I'm at CCN, good grades, on Law Review, and have a job with a V5 in NYC lined up for this upcoming summer. I'm expecting my 2L grades to be substantially better than my 1L grades, even with the journal added on top of my workload. I'm thinking now that I made a mistake in putting all my OCI chips on NYC and am entertaining the notion of trying for a different market during 3L OCI. I don't really have a compelling reason, other than that I think I would prefer the lifestyle in the other non-NYC city (it's around the same area where I was born and raised). Ideas?


Back in the day, I saw 3L positions for non-NYC markets, but usually from highly selective firms (think Boies, Schiller but in secondary markets). I remember seeing Latham, and maybe also Munger. Definitely Quinn. If you want to target more boutique-ish firms, I think it might be best to apply to them individually. If you're looking for a big firm in a secondary market that isn't specifically listed in symplicity, there's no harm with inquiring with the recruiter. I'm sure your credentials put you in the running for almost anything in this post.




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