T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

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T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:40 am

So I didn't do that well in my 1L year, but I still managed to get a lower V100 job in a secondary city where the firm is headquartered (think K&L Gates in Pittsburgh). I am now however having a 4.0 in the first half of my 2L year (mostly core courses) and am confident that I can repeat the performance this coming semester. I am also on a secondary journal and has a 50% chance of publishing my note (I have got an interesting, new, and rarely discussed topic). I want to transfer to a better firm in a larger city doing corp. law. I have meaningful ties to NY, Chi, TX, and SoCal, and wouldn't mind to move to any of these places. Any suggestions on 3L recruiting? Especially regarding timing and firm selection.

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Old Gregg
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Re: T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

Postby Old Gregg » Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:19 pm

It's really just as simple as applying to firms when they post openings for 3Ls or interview 3Ls at OCI. You can also try sending your resume to firms as OCI approaches. There's no such thing as "firm selection." As a 3L with mediocre grades at best at the end of the day, you just apply for whatever is out there and hope you like whatever sticks. For now, you're really just jumping the gun. Better to focus on repeating your performance for next semester, and focus on doing good work at your summer job because these lower V100s are where no-offers are commonplace and nothing will kill your chances at 3L OCI more quickly than a no-offer.

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Re: T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

Postby RVP11 » Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:10 pm

OP...epic striving, bro.

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BruceWayne
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Re: T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

Postby BruceWayne » Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:12 pm

G. T. L. Rev. wrote:Employers know that it is *much* easier to get good grades 2L and 3L years and tend to adjust accordingly. That said, there is no harm in trying at 3L OCI, etc.


It depends on the school; at UVA it is not "much" easier because the curve does not change.

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Re: T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

Postby IAFG » Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:26 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
G. T. L. Rev. wrote:Employers know that it is *much* easier to get good grades 2L and 3L years and tend to adjust accordingly. That said, there is no harm in trying at 3L OCI, etc.


It depends on the school; at UVA it is not "much" easier because the curve does not change.

The curve doesn't change here either but it's much easier because not all your classes are curved and employed people have a reduced incentive to gun.

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Re: T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

Postby RVP11 » Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:35 pm

IAFG wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:
G. T. L. Rev. wrote:Employers know that it is *much* easier to get good grades 2L and 3L years and tend to adjust accordingly. That said, there is no harm in trying at 3L OCI, etc.


It depends on the school; at UVA it is not "much" easier because the curve does not change.

The curve doesn't change here either but it's much easier because not all your classes are curved and employed people have a reduced incentive to gun.


On the other hand, a lot of bright below-median people figure out law school exams.

I haven't found the curve any easier after 1L.

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Re: T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

Postby DouglasDevelopment » Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:39 pm

RVP11 wrote:On the other hand, a lot of bright below-median people figure out law school exams.

I haven't found the curve any easier after 1L.


Don't some people take classes pass/fail?

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Old Gregg
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Re: T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

Postby Old Gregg » Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:48 pm

1) Clerkship gunners still gun.

2) PI people still gun.

3) The vast of majority of people who gunned for prestigious firms during 1L don't know how not to gun, so they gun.

4) People with mediocre grades who got a job they aren't satisfied with thirst for prestige and gun. <---- OP

5) People with mediocre to shit grades who are jobless definitely gun.


Really, the only people who don't gun are the truly lazy, truly not caring of prestige, and so-so grade people who got a comfy firm job they're satisfied with.

So no, unless the curve is vastly higher for 2L and 3L, it probably isn't so much easier to get good grades.

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Re: T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

Postby TaipeiMort » Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:23 pm

I think the ease of a 2 or 3L program versus 1L is most largely effected by two factors: 1) Percentage of students with jobs/clerkships, and 2) where LLMs are from (Asia versus elsewhere) and if they are graded together with JDs.

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Re: T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:37 pm

OP here.

The classes I took all had standard curves and were also large, non-seminar classes (biz org, tax, etc). Also, at my school the P/F and LLM people do not count towards the curve.

Yeah, I think I will just do a good job in the summer and apply afterwards.

Are there any firms that have a track record of accepting 3Ls?

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Re: T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

Postby thesealocust » Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:40 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Are there any firms that have a track record of accepting 3Ls?


Gigantic firms in NYC often do. Spots for 3Ls are always somewhat rare, but you might get a glance.

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Re: T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:42 pm

Cravath often needs people and has been known to grab some 3Ls (shocking, who wouldn't want to work there??)

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Re: T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:44 pm

Fresh Prince wrote:1) Clerkship gunners still gun.

2) PI people still gun.

3) The vast of majority of people who gunned for prestigious firms during 1L don't know how not to gun, so they gun.

4) People with mediocre grades who got a job they aren't satisfied with thirst for prestige and gun. <---- OP

5) People with mediocre to shit grades who are jobless definitely gun.


Really, the only people who don't gun are the truly lazy, truly not caring of prestige, and so-so grade people who got a comfy firm job they're satisfied with.

So no, unless the curve is vastly higher for 2L and 3L, it probably isn't so much easier to get good grades.


I didn't gun though. I actually didn't work any harder than before. It's just that getting an offer after having below-median grades really gave me a significant amount relief and helped me psychologically (I think). I wasn't expecting A's at all.

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Re: T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

Postby Old Gregg » Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:57 pm

thesealocust wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Are there any firms that have a track record of accepting 3Ls?


Gigantic firms in NYC often do. Spots for 3Ls are always somewhat rare, but you might get a glance.


Fortunately for OP, the big firms in NYC typically want 3Ls for corporate.

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Re: T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

Postby dood » Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:54 pm

G. T. L. Rev. wrote:Employers know that it is *much* easier to get good grades 2L and 3L years and tend to adjust accordingly. That said, there is no harm in trying at 3L OCI, etc.


arhghgha but i thought i was getting smarter!?!?

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Re: T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

Postby kalvano » Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:01 pm

thesealocust wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Are there any firms that have a track record of accepting 3Ls?


Gigantic firms in NYC often do. Spots for 3Ls are always somewhat rare, but you might get a glance.



It might be easier in this in-between market. A lot of firms I applied to (granted, not massive top Vault firms) said they have shifted away from 2L SA's (maybe hiring 1 or 2) and more towards hiring graduating 3L's. I was told by several places that they didn't have, or drastically reduced, their summer program, but to please re-apply as a 3L as they would be interested.
Last edited by kalvano on Sat Jan 07, 2012 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Old Gregg
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Re: T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

Postby Old Gregg » Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:07 pm

I was told by several places that the didn't have, or drastically reduced, their summer program, but to please re-apply as a 3L as they would be interested.


Chapter 1 to "Looking for a Job": The form rejection letter.

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Re: T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

Postby IAFG » Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:09 pm

Fresh Prince wrote:
I was told by several places that the didn't have, or drastically reduced, their summer program, but to please re-apply as a 3L as they would be interested.


Chapter 1 to "Looking for a Job": The form rejection letter.

I dunno, I hate to create false hope, but it seems like some firms have been leaning more on 3L hiring rather than risking over-hiring for the summer. I haven't seen any raw numbers but I do get the sense there is more 3L movement than there used to be.

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Re: T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

Postby kalvano » Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:14 pm

Fresh Prince wrote:
I was told by several places that the didn't have, or drastically reduced, their summer program, but to please re-apply as a 3L as they would be interested.


Chapter 1 to "Looking for a Job": The form rejection letter.



LOL. Not form. I've seen enough form rejection letters (and written them) to know the difference.

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Re: T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

Postby RVP11 » Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Cravath...who wouldn't want to work there??


You're joking, right?

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Re: T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

Postby lawschoolgrapedme » Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:59 pm

RVP11 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Cravath...who wouldn't want to work there??


You're joking, right?


jealous?

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Re: T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

Postby 09042014 » Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:29 pm

RVP11 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Cravath...who wouldn't want to work there??


You're joking, right?


Anyone who got a different V5 offer?

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Re: T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

Postby RVP11 » Sat Jan 07, 2012 6:08 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
RVP11 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Cravath...who wouldn't want to work there??


You're joking, right?


Anyone who got a different V5 offer?


Pretty much. Or anyone who has an offer in a city they prefer to NYC, or has a family, or wants to bill 3000 hours a year doing litigation but actually be compensated accordingly (Quinn, BSF, Susman), or wants to do a practice area Cravath doesn't have.

My guess is OP would love Cravath, though.

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Re: T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

Postby Old Gregg » Sat Jan 07, 2012 7:18 pm

to bill 3000 hours a year doing litigation but actually be compensated accordingly (Quinn,


LOL

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Re: T14, below-median in 1L, 4.0 in 2L, want to change firm

Postby BruceWayne » Sat Jan 07, 2012 7:24 pm

Fresh Prince wrote:
to bill 3000 hours a year doing litigation but actually be compensated accordingly (Quinn,


LOL


I understand the different strokes for different folks thing, but it amazes me how many people actually desire those types of jobs. I understand the desire to make a lot of money, but with the way things are set up you really don't even get that with the NYC megafirms. I don't know the hours differences but I just don't see why you'd go Cravath or Sullivan over Paul Weiss for example. You'll make the same amount of money but you'll be working even worse hours (which is really incredible considering that you won't be working light hours at Paul Weiss either).




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