Peggy Browning Fellowship at General Counsel Office/Union

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Peggy Browning Fellowship at General Counsel Office/Union

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 26, 2011 8:25 pm

2L (T50, median, URM male)
Peggy Browning Fellow
Just scored a legal internship (PAID) for union's general counsel office.

Should I accept? It is the first paid offer that I've had. Also, many of my classmates have yet to secure paid summer employment so I feel like I'm relatively fortunate to have something already.

I want to practice labor and employment law and do want to work for the federal govt somewhere down the line. What's the likelihood this gig could lead to permanent employment?

Also, what's the prestige associated with being a Peggy Browning Fellow? How does that help with one's future employment prospects?

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Re: Peggy Browning Fellowship at General Counsel Office/Union

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 26, 2011 9:33 pm

I'm fairly certain that a Peggy Browning fellowship is looked upon favorably by employers within the field of labor law...

Geist13
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Re: Peggy Browning Fellowship at General Counsel Office/Union

Postby Geist13 » Mon Dec 26, 2011 10:28 pm

I'd take it. It's paid, in the field you want to work in, and has a relatively recognizable named fellowship attached (at least I've heard of it).

Also, unless today is URMs at T50s get labor jobs day, you posted this multiple times, once anonymously, once not . . .

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Re: Peggy Browning Fellowship at General Counsel Office/Union

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 26, 2011 11:13 pm

He probably did create a new topic with the same question.

But I'd say take it. For the aforementioned reasons.

And you'd probably look like a rock star amongst your peers for having a PAID fellowship/internship. Plus, it makes the rest of 2L year less stressful. Now you can focus on work for 3L year.

Just keep your grades as high as possible.

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Re: Peggy Browning Fellowship at General Counsel Office/Union

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:14 am

Within the very small world of labor law, the Peggy Browning fellowship is a relatively big deal. It's not just the name (which may help a bit with getting interviews, etc.), but for the networking opportunities. There aren't may paid private sector labor law jobs in the world, so who you know is almost the whole game.

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Re: Peggy Browning Fellowship at General Counsel Office/Union

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:14 pm

bump to hear other people's opinion on Peggy Browning Fund....or just about labor law opportunities, in general.

CSKNJ
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Re: Peggy Browning Fellowship at General Counsel Office/Union

Postby CSKNJ » Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:56 pm

OP: How long did it take to hear back after you had applied. I just sent my app in yesterday. I'm in the odd position where I got an unpaid internship with one of the fellowship organizations as an unpaid intern and then was instructed to apply to the Fund for financial support. I'm actually more interested in my organization's community development practice but working in labor law wouldn't be the worst thing.

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Re: Peggy Browning Fellowship at General Counsel Office/Union

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:14 pm

This is OP....It took me a couple of weeks from when I sent in the application. I was selected for an interview within a day of sending in the application. So quick turnaround.

From what I gather PB is a big deal in the labor/employment field of law.

Funding is (at the very least) $4,500 for 10 weeks. Not exactly big money but it's definitely better than no money/having to take out loans. However many organizations pay beyond that so you could possibly get more from your organization.

CSKNJ
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Re: Peggy Browning Fellowship at General Counsel Office/Union

Postby CSKNJ » Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:18 pm

OP: Pretty sure you can apply for other grants in addition to what PBF gives you.

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Re: Peggy Browning Fellowship at General Counsel Office/Union

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:21 pm

CSKNJ wrote:OP: Pretty sure you can apply for other grants in addition to what PBF gives you.


Yeah, that's what I'm looking to do. I just need to figure out where to find additional funding. Any ideas/help would be appreciated.

CSKNJ
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Re: Peggy Browning Fellowship at General Counsel Office/Union

Postby CSKNJ » Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:59 pm

Equal Justice Works provides grants for a range of public interest placements, that would be a good place to start.

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Re: Peggy Browning Fellowship at General Counsel Office/Union

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Dec 27, 2011 10:35 pm

I think as long as you're being paid as a 2L, it's a good thing. Believe it or not, many people struggle finding work to do for free. So you're in a good position!

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Re: Peggy Browning Fellowship at General Counsel Office/Union

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:14 am

bump...I would like to hear more about Peggy Browning and a PBF's chances at employment

LawIdiot86
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Re: Peggy Browning Fellowship at General Counsel Office/Union

Postby LawIdiot86 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 3:56 am

Anonymous User wrote:bump...I would like to hear more about Peggy Browning and a PBF's chances at employment

From their website http://www.peggybrowningfund.org/fellowships/alumni:
The Peggy Browning Fund Fellowship Program is currently made up of 430 alumni since its start in 1997. Of that number, 130 alumni, who have graduated from law school programs, are currently working in labor or public interest law. That's more than one-third of Peggy Browning Fellows gainfully employed in the field.


By my math, that means there are roughly 30 fellows a year (assuming constant numbers). Two of them near the top of that page who graduated in 2005 are now listed as being at an eight-person union-side law firm in Chicago. Another two are at listed at a fifteen person plaintiff's firm in Pittsburgh. A 2008 fellow is listed as having finished a "clerkship" in NY and is looking for a job. I see another clerked for the CJ of the 9th circuit and then did DOL honors. Another couple are at the Federal Mine Safety and Health Review Commission. It looks like most of the others are still in law school or are working for unions or other sub-10 person labor law firms.

What seems to be telling is that the fellows run the gamut of CLS and Mich to NYLS and CUNY. Also, of those in government or private sector employment, a number are described in non-legal jobs like research or program analyst. I don't see anyone who has gone on to the big labor shops (Littler, Ogletree, Jackson Lewis, Proskauer, etc). I think it would be fair to say that any program that takes 30 people in a field where people can work at the NLRB/FLRA/DOL and for firms and a program that reaches down that far in the US News rankings will be seen as better than an unpaid labor law job, but not as good as a firm or NLRB position. Probably good if you want any job in labor law, but not if you want a firm job or automatic NLRB/DOL honors admit.

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Re: Peggy Browning Fellowship at General Counsel Office/Union

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:10 pm

LawIdiot86 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:bump...I would like to hear more about Peggy Browning and a PBF's chances at employment

From their website http://www.peggybrowningfund.org/fellowships/alumni:
The Peggy Browning Fund Fellowship Program is currently made up of 430 alumni since its start in 1997. Of that number, 130 alumni, who have graduated from law school programs, are currently working in labor or public interest law. That's more than one-third of Peggy Browning Fellows gainfully employed in the field.


By my math, that means there are roughly 30 fellows a year (assuming constant numbers). Two of them near the top of that page who graduated in 2005 are now listed as being at an eight-person union-side law firm in Chicago. Another two are at listed at a fifteen person plaintiff's firm in Pittsburgh. A 2008 fellow is listed as having finished a "clerkship" in NY and is looking for a job. I see another clerked for the CJ of the 9th circuit and then did DOL honors. Another couple are at the Federal Mine Safety and Health Review Commission. It looks like most of the others are still in law school or are working for unions or other sub-10 person labor law firms.

What seems to be telling is that the fellows run the gamut of CLS and Mich to NYLS and CUNY. Also, of those in government or private sector employment, a number are described in non-legal jobs like research or program analyst. I don't see anyone who has gone on to the big labor shops (Littler, Ogletree, Jackson Lewis, Proskauer, etc). I think it would be fair to say that any program that takes 30 people in a field where people can work at the NLRB/FLRA/DOL and for firms and a program that reaches down that far in the US News rankings will be seen as better than an unpaid labor law job, but not as good as a firm or NLRB position. Probably good if you want any job in labor law, but not if you want a firm job or automatic NLRB/DOL honors admit.



100%. But if OP didn't have the grades for a big firm job anyways (he's median at his school) then PBF is certainly no big loss for him. It's probably the next big thing for him. Maybe he can still get NLRB/DOL honors too so who knows.

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Re: Peggy Browning Fellowship at General Counsel Office/Union

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:51 am

You should definitely take the job if you're sincerely interested in practicing labor/employment law. Speaking as a practicing L&E attorney that has worked for 3 of the organizations mentioned in this thread (but not, regrettably, as a PBF Fellow) in addition to other union-side firms, I can tell you the PBF name is as prestigious as it gets for PI/union/employee-side internships. Having "Peggy Browning Fellow" on your resume will definitely help you to stand head and shoulders above other applicants when it comes to applying for full-time employment. The program is promoted aggressively amongst the AFL-CIO Lawyers Coordinating Committee, which virtually every counsel to an AFL-CIO affiliated union (i.e. most union-side lawyers across the country) belongs to and the National Employment Lawyers Association which is the bar assn for plaintiff reps. In my NLRB Honors class, at least 2 of the 7 hires (there may have been more, but I didn't know all of them personally) were PBF alumni who had done their fellowships at the Bd the previous summer.

Another incentive for becoming a fellow is that you will get an expenses-paid trip (if you're not from the DC area) to the PBF annual conference. This is a fantastic networking opportunity which many high-ranked union counsel and federal staffers attend to talk to students. I would also encourage non-fellow students to try to attend this conference but you will need to get your own funding (that's what I did).

Snip:
It looks like most of the others are still in law school or are working for unions or other sub-10 person labor law firms.
I don't see anyone who has gone on to the big labor shops (Littler, Ogletree, Jackson Lewis, Proskauer, etc). I think it would be fair to say that any program that takes 30 people in a field where people can work at the NLRB/FLRA/DOL and for firms and a program that reaches down that far in the US News rankings will be seen as better than an unpaid labor law job, but not as good as a firm or NLRB position.


Uh, you pretty much missed the entire mission of the PBF program which is to get law students involved in government and union/employee-side work as opposed to management counsel (US News Law Firm survey ONLY ranks management-side firms). The vast majority of firms that represent unions and employees are "sub-10 person labor law firms." One of the motivations for the Fund's establishment was the fact that worker's rights organizations were losing talent to corporate/defense counsel due to the huge disparities in financial incentives. That is why you don't see "Littler, Ogletree, Jackson Lewis, Proskauer" etc on the lists of participating employers, mentor organizations, or referral resources. PBF isn't going to publicize alumni going to management/BigLaw positions any more than some other liberal organization would promote former participants defecting to conservative causes as success stories.

CSKNJ - AFAIK from my experience applying to PBF fellowships a few years ago, the time between application deadline and interview selection varies quite a bit between the organizations. I interviewed with 2 of the orgs in December but know that there were some other orgs that still hadn't made interview selections by the following Feb.

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Re: Peggy Browning Fellowship at General Counsel Office/Union

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:You should definitely take the job if you're sincerely interested in practicing labor/employment law. Speaking as a practicing L&E attorney that has worked for 3 of the organizations mentioned in this thread (but not, regrettably, as a PBF Fellow) in addition to other union-side firms, I can tell you the PBF name is as prestigious as it gets for PI/union/employee-side internships. Having "Peggy Browning Fellow" on your resume will definitely help you to stand head and shoulders above other applicants when it comes to applying for full-time employment. The program is promoted aggressively amongst the AFL-CIO Lawyers Coordinating Committee, which virtually every counsel to an AFL-CIO affiliated union (i.e. most union-side lawyers across the country) belongs to and the National Employment Lawyers Association which is the bar assn for plaintiff reps. In my NLRB Honors class, at least 2 of the 7 hires (there may have been more, but I didn't know all of them personally) were PBF alumni who had done their fellowships at the Bd the previous summer.

Another incentive for becoming a fellow is that you will get an expenses-paid trip (if you're not from the DC area) to the PBF annual conference. This is a fantastic networking opportunity which many high-ranked union counsel and federal staffers attend to talk to students. I would also encourage non-fellow students to try to attend this conference but you will need to get your own funding (that's what I did).

Snip:
It looks like most of the others are still in law school or are working for unions or other sub-10 person labor law firms.
I don't see anyone who has gone on to the big labor shops (Littler, Ogletree, Jackson Lewis, Proskauer, etc). I think it would be fair to say that any program that takes 30 people in a field where people can work at the NLRB/FLRA/DOL and for firms and a program that reaches down that far in the US News rankings will be seen as better than an unpaid labor law job, but not as good as a firm or NLRB position.


Uh, you pretty much missed the entire mission of the PBF program which is to get law students involved in government and union/employee-side work as opposed to management counsel (US News Law Firm survey ONLY ranks management-side firms). The vast majority of firms that represent unions and employees are "sub-10 person labor law firms." One of the motivations for the Fund's establishment was the fact that worker's rights organizations were losing talent to corporate/defense counsel due to the huge disparities in financial incentives. That is why you don't see "Littler, Ogletree, Jackson Lewis, Proskauer" etc on the lists of participating employers, mentor organizations, or referral resources. PBF isn't going to publicize alumni going to management/BigLaw positions any more than some other liberal organization would promote former participants defecting to conservative causes as success stories.

CSKNJ - AFAIK from my experience applying to PBF fellowships a few years ago, the time between application deadline and interview selection varies quite a bit between the organizations. I interviewed with 2 of the orgs in December but know that there were some other orgs that still hadn't made interview selections by the following Feb.


This person, by far, is the most knowledgeable person in this thread.

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Re: Peggy Browning Fellowship at General Counsel Office/Union

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 30, 2011 10:55 pm

Peggy Browning is kinda a big deal!

Renzo
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Re: Peggy Browning Fellowship at General Counsel Office/Union

Postby Renzo » Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:12 am

LawIdiot86 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:bump...I would like to hear more about Peggy Browning and a PBF's chances at employment

From their website http://www.peggybrowningfund.org/fellowships/alumni:
The Peggy Browning Fund Fellowship Program is currently made up of 430 alumni since its start in 1997. Of that number, 130 alumni, who have graduated from law school programs, are currently working in labor or public interest law. That's more than one-third of Peggy Browning Fellows gainfully employed in the field.


By my math, that means there are roughly 30 fellows a year (assuming constant numbers). Two of them near the top of that page who graduated in 2005 are now listed as being at an eight-person union-side law firm in Chicago. Another two are at listed at a fifteen person plaintiff's firm in Pittsburgh. A 2008 fellow is listed as having finished a "clerkship" in NY and is looking for a job. I see another clerked for the CJ of the 9th circuit and then did DOL honors. Another couple are at the Federal Mine Safety and Health Review Commission. It looks like most of the others are still in law school or are working for unions or other sub-10 person labor law firms.

What seems to be telling is that the fellows run the gamut of CLS and Mich to NYLS and CUNY. Also, of those in government or private sector employment, a number are described in non-legal jobs like research or program analyst. I don't see anyone who has gone on to the big labor shops (Littler, Ogletree, Jackson Lewis, Proskauer, etc). I think it would be fair to say that any program that takes 30 people in a field where people can work at the NLRB/FLRA/DOL and for firms and a program that reaches down that far in the US News rankings will be seen as better than an unpaid labor law job, but not as good as a firm or NLRB position. Probably good if you want any job in labor law, but not if you want a firm job or automatic NLRB/DOL honors admit.


You don't have any idea what you are talking about.


The PBF is a labor-side fellowship. Basically, the whole application process can be summarized as, "prove to us you are the kind of person who would never, under any circumstances, work for a management-side labor firm." Within the labor-side labor law community, it's a big deal. If you want to evaluate it's placement power, the metric would be how many of the alumni end up either at firms like Altshuler Berzon, not how many of them end up as union-busters at Jackson Lewis.




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