likelihood of getting no offered due to 2l grade drop?

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memo2partner
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likelihood of getting no offered due to 2l grade drop?

Postby memo2partner » Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:40 pm

how big of a grade drop before i need to worry about getting no offered? i've got a biglaw summer associate position lined up, but had zero motivation to study at all this semester (and didn't), and I think I completely bombed two of my exams so far

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Grizz
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Re: likelihood of getting no offered due to 2l grade drop?

Postby Grizz » Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:41 pm

Greetings,

This thread is new, exciting, and will add much knowledge to the forum. I applaud you, OP.

zomginternets
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Re: likelihood of getting no offered due to 2l grade drop?

Postby zomginternets » Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:53 pm

auto no-offer if your GPA drops. In fact, many SA's I know got no offered because their GPA didn't go up, even when they had a 4.0.

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thesealocust
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Re: likelihood of getting no offered due to 2l grade drop?

Postby thesealocust » Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:58 pm

thesealocust wrote:
Everyone who gets poor grades 2L year has their offer revoked. If you get them in the fall you can't even spend the summer at the firm. There's a nationwide clearinghouse for grades to make sure it gets spotted as quickly as possible. A few firms will even fire you mid-summer if spring grades come out and they've dropped from your 1L average.

The reason for this is that your grades are what define you as a person. They are like talismanic sources of your intelligence, drive, work ethic, and charisma. If they falter, you falter. Without a properly impressive transcript backing you up, no client will take you seriously. No judge will listen to your arguments.

You aren't anything but your grades. It would be preposterous for a firm to consider extending employment to somebody so worthless as a human being as to allow themselves to be marred with poor performance on a law school exam.

zomginternets
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Re: likelihood of getting no offered due to 2l grade drop?

Postby zomginternets » Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:02 pm

thesealocust wrote:
thesealocust wrote:
Everyone who gets poor grades 2L year has their offer revoked. If you get them in the fall you can't even spend the summer at the firm. There's a nationwide clearinghouse for grades to make sure it gets spotted as quickly as possible. A few firms will even fire you mid-summer if spring grades come out and they've dropped from your 1L average.

The reason for this is that your grades are what define you as a person. They are like talismanic sources of your intelligence, drive, work ethic, and charisma. If they falter, you falter. Without a properly impressive transcript backing you up, no client will take you seriously. No judge will listen to your arguments.

You aren't anything but your grades. It would be preposterous for a firm to consider extending employment to somebody so worthless as a human being as to allow themselves to be marred with poor performance on a law school exam.


True fact. Judges often ask for transcripts prior to oral arguments.

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Grizz
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Re: likelihood of getting no offered due to 2l grade drop?

Postby Grizz » Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:05 pm

Check your credit score too. My bro had a bro that got no offered because of his less than stellar credit.

c3pO4
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Re: likelihood of getting no offered due to 2l grade drop?

Postby c3pO4 » Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:13 pm

Grizz wrote:Check your credit score too. My bro had a bro that got no offered because of his less than stellar credit.


Also, make sure you can pass a polygraph.


In all seriousness, you probably will be no-offered due to grades. I'd get on stealing some transcript paper ASAP.

BeenDidThat
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Re: likelihood of getting no offered due to 2l grade drop?

Postby BeenDidThat » Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:26 pm

If you were in the top 25% as a 1L, then the only reason the firm gave you a 2L SA is on the off-chance that you'd make it into the top 1%. As members of the 1% themselves, biglaw attorneys have no interest in hiring plebs for permanent employment.

HTH.

In all reality, though, you should be more worried about a firm no-offering you for your evidently terrible research skills.

Agent
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Re: likelihood of getting no offered due to 2l grade drop?

Postby Agent » Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:39 pm


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Mroberts3
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Re: likelihood of getting no offered due to 2l grade drop?

Postby Mroberts3 » Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:49 pm

thesealocust wrote:
thesealocust wrote:
Everyone who gets poor grades 2L year has their offer revoked. If you get them in the fall you can't even spend the summer at the firm. There's a nationwide clearinghouse for grades to make sure it gets spotted as quickly as possible. A few firms will even fire you mid-summer if spring grades come out and they've dropped from your 1L average.

The reason for this is that your grades are what define you as a person. They are like talismanic sources of your intelligence, drive, work ethic, and charisma. If they falter, you falter. Without a properly impressive transcript backing you up, no client will take you seriously. No judge will listen to your arguments.

You aren't anything but your grades. It would be preposterous for a firm to consider extending employment to somebody so worthless as a human being as to allow themselves to be marred with poor performance on a law school exam.


To be fair, this is how 1L grades/OCI works, so its understandable that people worry about the same thing 2L year. If a firm won't consider hiring you with a GPA below a certain amount why wouldn't they refuse to hire you after the summer.

Obviously the firm invests a lot in you over the summer, so if you do good work and fit in with everyone there is no reason to no-offer you because of grades. I'm just saying 1L PTSD makes people think grades are all that matter because that was true for one of the most stressful years of your life.

shmoo597
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Re: likelihood of getting no offered due to 2l grade drop?

Postby shmoo597 » Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:34 pm

I'm glad I no longer have to troll these threads. The trolling has gone mainstream.

That being said, I'd be more worried about attending firm events during the summer then grades. If you miss any event, you run the risk of not being considered a good "fit" or being dedicated to the firm. The idiot thinking of going to a wedding during his SA in a different thread runs a huge risk of being no-offered.

zomginternets
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Re: likelihood of getting no offered due to 2l grade drop?

Postby zomginternets » Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:43 pm

Mroberts3 wrote:
thesealocust wrote:
thesealocust wrote:
Everyone who gets poor grades 2L year has their offer revoked. If you get them in the fall you can't even spend the summer at the firm. There's a nationwide clearinghouse for grades to make sure it gets spotted as quickly as possible. A few firms will even fire you mid-summer if spring grades come out and they've dropped from your 1L average.

The reason for this is that your grades are what define you as a person. They are like talismanic sources of your intelligence, drive, work ethic, and charisma. If they falter, you falter. Without a properly impressive transcript backing you up, no client will take you seriously. No judge will listen to your arguments.

You aren't anything but your grades. It would be preposterous for a firm to consider extending employment to somebody so worthless as a human being as to allow themselves to be marred with poor performance on a law school exam.


To be fair, this is how 1L grades/OCI works, so its understandable that people worry about the same thing 2L year. If a firm won't consider hiring you with a GPA below a certain amount why wouldn't they refuse to hire you after the summer.

Obviously the firm invests a lot in you over the summer, so if you do good work and fit in with everyone there is no reason to no-offer you because of grades. I'm just saying 1L PTSD makes people think grades are all that matter because that was true for one of the most stressful years of your life.


It's certainly an understandable fear to have for the reasons you described; we were more lamenting the fact that this is the 500th thread on this topic in the past week, and even the most cursory search would have revealed the answer for him.

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Mroberts3
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Re: likelihood of getting no offered due to 2l grade drop?

Postby Mroberts3 » Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:03 pm

zomginternets wrote:
It's certainly an understandable fear to have for the reasons you described; we were more lamenting the fact that this is the 500th thread on this topic in the past week, and even the most cursory search would have revealed the answer for him.


Yes, that part is certainly true. And we will no doubt see more in May...

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thesealocust
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Re: likelihood of getting no offered due to 2l grade drop?

Postby thesealocust » Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:30 pm

G. T. L. Rev. wrote:Also, many judges are known to revoke clerkship offers if you coast 3L year. Even a 0.1 GPA drop has been known to trigger this reaction -- even smaller drops get you dinges at the COA level.


Yep, definitely heard of this happening. At least they're not as bad as Gibson Dunn, who generally require grades to go up 2L year to receive an offer.

c3pO4
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Re: likelihood of getting no offered due to 2l grade drop?

Postby c3pO4 » Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:47 pm

thesealocust wrote:
G. T. L. Rev. wrote:Also, many judges are known to revoke clerkship offers if you coast 3L year. Even a 0.1 GPA drop has been known to trigger this reaction -- even smaller drops get you dinges at the COA level.


Yep, definitely heard of this happening. At least they're not as bad as Gibson Dunn, who generally require grades to go up 2L year to receive an offer.



Just be careful not to assume your firm is like GDC. Many firms will no-offer for grade increases as well, since they want you to stay exactly who you were during OCI.

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Old Gregg
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Re: likelihood of getting no offered due to 2l grade drop?

Postby Old Gregg » Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:03 pm

Alright guys. The joke was killed right around post #3.

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NinerFan
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Re: likelihood of getting no offered due to 2l grade drop?

Postby NinerFan » Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:20 pm

Fresh Prince wrote:Alright guys. The joke was killed right around post #3.


Joke? What's a joke is the firm that no-offered my friend for gaining 5 pounds over the summer. Advice to 2L's out there with SA jobs.... stay in shape! Or get in shape if you're not in shape.

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Re: likelihood of getting no offered due to 2l grade drop?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:37 am

thesealocust wrote:
G. T. L. Rev. wrote:Also, many judges are known to revoke clerkship offers if you coast 3L year. Even a 0.1 GPA drop has been known to trigger this reaction -- even smaller drops get you dinges at the COA level.


Yep, definitely heard of this happening. At least they're not as bad as Gibson Dunn, who generally require grades to go up 2L year to receive an offer.

Former GDC SA here...stop being ridiculous. They barely require 1L grades if they like you. I wasn't even asked for my transcript after last summer, nor were the other SAs in my office.

Even more tellingly, GDC dropped below median at my T6 for summer offers this year (and, gasp, for non-URMs), so this "OMG Gibson cares about grades so much" nonsense should probably stop.

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Re: likelihood of getting no offered due to 2l grade drop?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:37 am

anon wrote:
thesealocust wrote:
G. T. L. Rev. wrote:Also, many judges are known to revoke clerkship offers if you coast 3L year. Even a 0.1 GPA drop has been known to trigger this reaction -- even smaller drops get you dinges at the COA level.


Yep, definitely heard of this happening. At least they're not as bad as Gibson Dunn, who generally require grades to go up 2L year to receive an offer.

Former GDC SA here...stop being ridiculous. They barely require 1L grades if they like you. I wasn't even asked for my transcript after last summer, nor were the other SAs in my office.

Even more tellingly, GDC dropped below median at my T6 for summer offers this year (and, gasp, for non-URMs), so this "OMG Gibson cares about grades so much" nonsense should probably stop.


I'm the anon immediately above: Gibson cares much more about fit than most on this board are willing to admit.

shmoo597
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Re: likelihood of getting no offered due to 2l grade drop?

Postby shmoo597 » Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:35 am

Anonymous User wrote:
anon wrote:
thesealocust wrote:
G. T. L. Rev. wrote:Also, many judges are known to revoke clerkship offers if you coast 3L year. Even a 0.1 GPA drop has been known to trigger this reaction -- even smaller drops get you dinges at the COA level.


Yep, definitely heard of this happening. At least they're not as bad as Gibson Dunn, who generally require grades to go up 2L year to receive an offer.

Former GDC SA here...stop being ridiculous. They barely require 1L grades if they like you. I wasn't even asked for my transcript after last summer, nor were the other SAs in my office.

Even more tellingly, GDC dropped below median at my T6 for summer offers this year (and, gasp, for non-URMs), so this "OMG Gibson cares about grades so much" nonsense should probably stop.


I'm the anon immediately above: Gibson cares much more about fit than most on this board are willing to admit.


The GDC thing is a perfect example of the blind leading the blind. How many times has that been parroted on TLS? How many people have any first hand knowledge of this actually being true? It was said once, was repeated, and then bam, it became the conventional wisdom. Who the fuck knows if its actually true.

That being said, if your grades drop .1-.2 at any v50 firm you will probably be no offered.

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20130312
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Re: likelihood of getting no offered due to 2l grade drop?

Postby 20130312 » Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:40 am

As a 0L, I'm terrified because I can't tell if you are all trolling him or being completely serious :lol:

Citizen Genet
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Re: likelihood of getting no offered due to 2l grade drop?

Postby Citizen Genet » Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:42 am

shmoo597 wrote:
The GDC thing is a perfect example of the blind leading the blind. How many times has that been parroted on TLS? How many people have any first hand knowledge of this actually being true? It was said once, was repeated, and then bam, it became the conventional wisdom. Who the fuck knows if its actually true.

That being said, if your grades drop .1-.2 at any v50 firm you will probably be no offered.


I think no offered is putting it lightly. You will be banned from applying to that firm ever again and they put your name on a V50 blacklist. Good luck toiling the rest of your days in the Tier 2 firm land.

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thesealocust
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Re: likelihood of getting no offered due to 2l grade drop?

Postby thesealocust » Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:55 am

InGoodFaith wrote:As a 0L, I'm terrified because I can't tell if you are all trolling him or being completely serious :lol:


Trolling. Lots of trolling.

Except the Gibson Dunn stuff. At my school if you get any B+s or lower, at any time during or before law school (going back to middle school), you are ineligible to interview with them (or keep a job if they had accidentally given you one before you shamed yourself)

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20130312
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Re: likelihood of getting no offered due to 2l grade drop?

Postby 20130312 » Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:25 pm

thesealocust wrote:
InGoodFaith wrote:As a 0L, I'm terrified because I can't tell if you are all trolling him or being completely serious :lol:


Trolling. Lots of trolling.

Except the Gibson Dunn stuff. At my school if you get any B+s or lower, at any time during or before law school (going back to middle school), you are ineligible to interview with them (or keep a job if they had accidentally given you one before you shamed yourself)


*wipes sweat off forehead*

Although I did lol at the "nationwide clearinghouse for grades."

c3pO4
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Re: likelihood of getting no offered due to 2l grade drop?

Postby c3pO4 » Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:13 pm

Citizen Genet wrote:
shmoo597 wrote:
The GDC thing is a perfect example of the blind leading the blind. How many times has that been parroted on TLS? How many people have any first hand knowledge of this actually being true? It was said once, was repeated, and then bam, it became the conventional wisdom. Who the fuck knows if its actually true.

That being said, if your grades drop .1-.2 at any v50 firm you will probably be no offered.


I think no offered is putting it lightly. You will be banned from applying to that firm ever again and they put your name on a V50 blacklist. Good luck toiling the rest of your days in the Tier 2 firm land.


lol. you wish. you'd be lucky to walk out of there alive. partners pplay duck hunter with the grade drop kids.




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