Grades don't matter?

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monkey85
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Re: Grades don't matter?

Postby monkey85 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:52 am

Anonymous User wrote:I'm in a VERY similar situation to the OP right now. I feel your pain buddy (assuming you're a guy). Running around looking for a job after striking out at OCI really brought down my 2L fall grades and I'm also wondering whether 3L grades will really matter much at this point. For what it's worth, I'm actually in a much better place (mentally that is) than I was a year ago. At this point, I'm just trying to enjoy myself a lot more while putting in an honest, though not over the top, effort. Something tells me you're in a similar state of mind now, past the stages of despair and moving more towards apathetic acceptance of the shitty situations we're in at this point. Hope things work out for ya OP, gl.


Finally, an even-keeled response.

Anonymous User
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Re: Grades don't matter?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:12 am

Anonymous User wrote:I'm in a VERY similar situation to the OP right now. I feel your pain buddy (assuming you're a guy). Running around looking for a job after striking out at OCI really brought down my 2L fall grades and I'm also wondering whether 3L grades will really matter much at this point. For what it's worth, I'm actually in a much better place (mentally that is) than I was a year ago. At this point, I'm just trying to enjoy myself a lot more while putting in an honest, though not over the top, effort. Something tells me you're in a similar state of mind now, past the stages of despair and moving more towards apathetic acceptance of the shitty situations we're in at this point. Hope things work out for ya OP, gl.


Yeah, I sort of agree with you. I am in a better place in the sense that on a day to day basis my situation does not cause me discomfort, though it does break through at times. But there is a sort of air of shame and embarrassment that stays with me. You know, the more I think about it, the more I realize it is not really about all the money I will never see (don't get me wrong, I love money) it is the shame of having failed in such an important part of my life, that is the part I still have trouble accepting.

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emkay625
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Re: Grades don't matter?

Postby emkay625 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:18 am

Grizz wrote:
emkay625 wrote:Wait.....you are unemployed at one of HYSCCN and you have good grades?

I would like the hear more about this.

For some reason, 0Ls are always incredulous to hear about people with good grades who strike out at OCI.

Best of luck, OP.


I'm aware that many people with good grades strike out, was not aware that many people with good grades from CCN strike out.

c3pO4
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Re: Grades don't matter?

Postby c3pO4 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:20 am

emkay625 wrote:
Grizz wrote:
emkay625 wrote:Wait.....you are unemployed at one of HYSCCN and you have good grades?

I would like the hear more about this.

For some reason, 0Ls are always incredulous to hear about people with good grades who strike out at OCI.

Best of luck, OP.


I'm aware that many people with good grades strike out, was not aware that many people with good grades from CCN strike out.


Yea, it happens a lot more often than you think. Like OP said, interview poorly, bid on the wrong firms/region, and/or mass mail too late, and you're done.

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Re: Grades don't matter?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:47 am

I'm in the same situation. T14 transfer and putting in a honest, though like 1/3 of the effort I put in the last two years effort going through finals this semester. No job, probably going to graduate with honors, and finally coming to terms with a shitty situation. I'm taking it as a sign the universe has other plans than law for me. Then again, I wasn't sure about practicing law when I came to law school and really just had no other options at the time. Best of luck to all those in a similar situation, there are more than a few of us. As for people considering transferring after 1L year who may be reading this thread...think about it seriously and talk to law firm hiring contacts at firms you may be interested at. They actually have an opinion on transferring or not from particular schools.

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Kirk
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Re: Grades don't matter?

Postby Kirk » Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:13 am

Anonymous User wrote: ....mass mailed too late.

How late is too late? R U talking a couple days, a week, or weeks?

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Re: Grades don't matter?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:27 am

Kirk wrote:
Anonymous User wrote: ....mass mailed too late.

How late is too late? R U talking a couple days, a week, or weeks?


You should be mass mailing BEFORE OCI rather than during or afterwards when you realize your chances at an offer through OCI are dwindling.

09042014
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Re: Grades don't matter?

Postby 09042014 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:29 am

Why didn't you try clerking Broseph?

I gotta think that good grades and CCN will help at BigFed, but now those jobs are mythical.

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NinerFan
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Re: Grades don't matter?

Postby NinerFan » Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:31 am

Kirk wrote:
Anonymous User wrote: ....mass mailed too late.

How late is too late? R U talking a couple days, a week, or weeks?


Lotta people start in July. I'd say August is already kinda late.

You should also really try to network during the summer if you're working in your target market. That's probably one of the few times Career Services network advice is actually pretty valid. Otherwise I've never understood how a full-time law student is going to network during the year if they don't go to school in their market.

luthersloan
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Re: Grades don't matter?

Postby luthersloan » Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:31 am

I struck out on that too, which is not that surprising given how tough the market is for 3Ls. If I can find a job to hide out for a year in and then clerk that might be best. Not sure what would be good for such a short time frame though.

09042014
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Re: Grades don't matter?

Postby 09042014 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:39 am

luthersloan wrote:I struck out on that too, which is not that surprising given how tough the market is for 3Ls. If I can find a job to hide out for a year in and then clerk that might be best. Not sure what would be good for such a short time frame though.


I think your best bet is to find some shitty government job that hires on an hiring matrix. Can't ding you for being a creepster there.

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bceagles182
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Re: Grades don't matter?

Postby bceagles182 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:43 am

I feel for you, OP, as I was very nearly in your situation.

I didn't get into C or N, so I transferred to a lower ranked school. I knew that it was a risky decision because I was sacrificing OCI at my old school (which does well in its own market), but it wouldn't have been in my chosen market. I botched a number of CBs after OCI and came very close to striking out. I was really sweating it out to the end and really thought I'd be right there with you but I was lucky to get an offer at the 11th hour.

Anyway, I think your best shot at finding work will be through networking and focusing on smaller shops. You have great stats (better than mine obviously), and I find it hard to believe than nobody will take you. I know several 3Ls at TTTs that have gotten jobs through networking, so while your biglaw prospects are probably shot, I'm sure you'll find something. I can only imagine how difficult it must be to motivate yourself at this point, but I really do believe that your continued effort will pay off. You have the creds; you just need some luck.

Best of luck man.

luthersloan
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Re: Grades don't matter?

Postby luthersloan » Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:44 am

hahaha, creepster I like that. I do not really think that is my problem, but better safe than sorry, right?

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Re: Grades don't matter?

Postby luthersloan » Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:51 am

Yeah, I hear you about that. I am networking, but it seems relatively (or totally) pointless in the context of big law, which as you say is probably done for me now anyway. The real issue though is like I don't want to work for a small firm, at least outside of the context of some sort of specialized boutique. I think I would honestly rather hide in some sort of fellowship or something and try to clerk next cycle or do an LLM in tax and try to get into biglaw again. Honestly, it is not even about money any more, I am just so angry about not getting biglaw that I am more than willing to do silly, costly things like the above to get another shot.

c3pO4
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Re: Grades don't matter?

Postby c3pO4 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:54 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Kirk wrote:
Anonymous User wrote: ....mass mailed too late.

How late is too late? R U talking a couple days, a week, or weeks?


You should be mass mailing BEFORE OCI rather than during or afterwards when you realize your chances at an offer through OCI are dwindling.


+1. Most people realize they are striking out sometime during september/october, and by then it is way too late. You have to mass mail every firm in June/July (basically as soon as you get your grades). Some people, especially those at CCN who can't imagine not getting a job through OCI so they don't mass mail until the strike out happens, in October. But that doesn't work.

c3pO4
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Re: Grades don't matter?

Postby c3pO4 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:57 am

luthersloan wrote:Yeah, I hear you about that. I am networking, but it seems relatively (or totally) pointless in the context of big law, which as you say is probably done for me now anyway. The real issue though is like I don't want to work for a small firm, at least outside of the context of some sort of specialized boutique. I think I would honestly rather hide in some sort of fellowship or something and try to clerk next cycle or do an LLM in tax and try to get into biglaw again. Honestly, it is not even about money any more, I am just so angry about not getting biglaw that I am more than willing to do silly, costly things like the above to get another shot.


i think a PI fellowship might be a great idea followed by clerking, but you don't need a tax LLM, that seems like a waste of money and a dangerous gamble.

most people can't get 100k midlaw, but i think you could with your credentials. it might not be as bad a syou think. Have you tried blanketing firms in your home market? Your NYU degree carries a huge amount of prestige outside of biglaw, and you can't compare it to biglaw, you have to compare it to the alternative, which is being finances pwnd.

I have a buddy in your position who sucked it up and took a small firm job in a smaller market but makes more in real terms than a biglaw nYC associate.

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Grizz
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Re: Grades don't matter?

Postby Grizz » Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:01 am

c3pO4 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Kirk wrote:
Anonymous User wrote: ....mass mailed too late.

How late is too late? R U talking a couple days, a week, or weeks?


You should be mass mailing BEFORE OCI rather than during or afterwards when you realize your chances at an offer through OCI are dwindling.


+1. Most people realize they are striking out sometime during september/october, and by then it is way too late. You have to mass mail every firm in June/July (basically as soon as you get your grades). Some people, especially those at CCN who can't imagine not getting a job through OCI so they don't mass mail until the strike out happens, in October. But that doesn't work.

This this this. I struck out of our actual OCI, but by the time that had become apparent, I had plenty of other CBs.

luthersloan
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Re: Grades don't matter?

Postby luthersloan » Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:04 am

Yeah, what I mean is it is not about money. Like I am sure I would make more in real terms if I went to a smaller job, rather than delay any real income by a 2 years or more as a result of something like a fellowship + clerking. But it is not about money, it is about pride and self-worth, and how I am doing in terms of prestige and pay relative to my NYU colleagues. I mean, compared to the vast majority of people who have ever lived we are all infinitely better off, but that is a silly referent that no one uses. So, to me a tax LLM is not a dangerous gamble, since it one of a number of options that might give be a shot at the only thing I care about anymore which is extirpating the stain of not getting big law.

c3pO4
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Re: Grades don't matter?

Postby c3pO4 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:10 am

luthersloan wrote:Yeah, what I mean is it is not about money. Like I am sure I would make more in real terms if I went to a smaller job, rather than delay any real income by a 2 years or more as a result of something like a fellowship + clerking. But it is not about money, it is about pride and self-worth, and how I am doing in terms of prestige and pay relative to my NYU colleagues. I mean, compared to the vast majority of people who have ever lived we are all infinitely better off, but that is a silly referent that no one uses. So, to me a tax LLM is not a dangerous gamble, since it one of a number of options that might give be a shot at the only thing I care about anymore which is extirpating the stain of not getting big law.


dude. are you familiar with the film, Pulp Fiction?

luthersloan
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Re: Grades don't matter?

Postby luthersloan » Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:13 am

Of course, not sure I get the reference though.

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Re: Grades don't matter?

Postby c3pO4 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:17 am

luthersloan wrote:Of course, not sure I get the reference though.


"That's pride fucking with you. Fuck pride. Pride only hurts, it never helps. "

luthersloan
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Re: Grades don't matter?

Postby luthersloan » Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:18 am

But Willis does the prideful thing, and after nearly getting raped and killed, escapes with his lady friend, a bunch of money, and his dad's watch. So that seems to support my thinking.

c3pO4
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Re: Grades don't matter?

Postby c3pO4 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:22 am

luthersloan wrote:But Wills does the prideful thing, and after nearly getting raped and killed, escapes with his lady friend, a bunch of money, and his dad's watch. So that seems to support my thinking.


lol. either you are just jokin' around or you are really gonna make some questionable decisions all in the name of chasing prestige. either way, best of luck.

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bceagles182
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Re: Grades don't matter?

Postby bceagles182 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:24 am

So you're willing to risk getting raped and killed? Willis was pretty lucky ...

luthersloan
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Re: Grades don't matter?

Postby luthersloan » Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:25 am

The stakes on both sides are quite a bit lower, more like risking more debt and wasted time.




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