How bad is the legal job market?

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c3pO4
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Re: How bad is the legal job market?

Postby c3pO4 » Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:24 pm

Grizz wrote:
IAFG wrote:^^ everything this guy said.

Seriously. 100% credited. TLS places a lot of emphasis on grades because that's the only thing you can change one you're in law school (can't get new strong ties, WE, IP, URM, etc.). But 0L and 1L shouldn't take it to mean that it's the only thing, or that a certain level or grades will make you 100% safe. And you should realize this BEFORE OCI hits.


I bet every year the 2L's going through OCI start to figure this out and are amazed. Having been through it, I look forward to seeing the "OMG median grades great VJob because I'm IP/URM/Ties/GoodPersonality" and "OMG top third T20 struck out b/c i'm aspie" threads next fall.

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Grizz
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Re: How bad is the legal job market?

Postby Grizz » Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:26 pm

c3pO4 wrote:
Grizz wrote:
IAFG wrote:^^ everything this guy said.

Seriously. 100% credited. TLS places a lot of emphasis on grades because that's the only thing you can change one you're in law school (can't get new strong ties, WE, IP, URM, etc.). But 0L and 1L shouldn't take it to mean that it's the only thing, or that a certain level or grades will make you 100% safe. And you should realize this BEFORE OCI hits.


I bet every year the 2L's going through OCI start to figure this out and are amazed. Having been through it, I look forward to seeing the "OMG median grades great VJob because I'm IP/URM/Ties/GoodPersonality" and "OMG top third T20 struck out b/c i'm aspie" threads next fall.

TLS people are so credential-obsessed that they think V ranked firm jobs are like a function. (X grades from Y school = a certain V range of firms). It's not.

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IAFG
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Re: How bad is the legal job market?

Postby IAFG » Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:37 pm

c3pO4 wrote:
Grizz wrote:
IAFG wrote:^^ everything this guy said.

Seriously. 100% credited. TLS places a lot of emphasis on grades because that's the only thing you can change one you're in law school (can't get new strong ties, WE, IP, URM, etc.). But 0L and 1L shouldn't take it to mean that it's the only thing, or that a certain level or grades will make you 100% safe. And you should realize this BEFORE OCI hits.


I bet every year the 2L's going through OCI start to figure this out and are amazed. Having been through it, I look forward to seeing the "OMG median grades great VJob because I'm IP/URM/Ties/GoodPersonality" and "OMG top third T20 struck out b/c i'm aspie" threads next fall.

We actually aggregate it all in the "OCI results" thread.

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Grizz
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Re: How bad is the legal job market?

Postby Grizz » Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:40 pm

IAFG wrote:
c3pO4 wrote:
Grizz wrote:
IAFG wrote:^^ everything this guy said.

Seriously. 100% credited. TLS places a lot of emphasis on grades because that's the only thing you can change one you're in law school (can't get new strong ties, WE, IP, URM, etc.). But 0L and 1L shouldn't take it to mean that it's the only thing, or that a certain level or grades will make you 100% safe. And you should realize this BEFORE OCI hits.


I bet every year the 2L's going through OCI start to figure this out and are amazed. Having been through it, I look forward to seeing the "OMG median grades great VJob because I'm IP/URM/Ties/GoodPersonality" and "OMG top third T20 struck out b/c i'm aspie" threads next fall.

We actually aggregate it all in the "OCI results" thread.

The best advice for 1Ls is really to read that thread, but also keep in mind that there are a lot of people who don't get jerbs who don't poast.

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IAFG
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Re: How bad is the legal job market?

Postby IAFG » Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:42 pm

Grizz wrote:
IAFG wrote:We actually aggregate it all in the "OCI results" thread.

The best advice for 1Ls is really to read that thread, but also keep in mind that there are a lot of people most of the people who don't get jerbs who don't poast.

I mean... why would you post there until you got a job, because until you do, your OCI ain't over yet, and if you never get a job, you're too depressed to even click on "legal employment."

09042014
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Re: How bad is the legal job market?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:04 pm

Grizz wrote:
IAFG wrote:^^ everything this guy said.

Seriously. 100% credited. TLS places a lot of emphasis on grades because that's the only thing you can change one you're in law school (can't get new strong ties, WE, IP, URM, etc.). But 0L and 1L shouldn't take it to mean that it's the only thing, or that a certain level or grades will make you 100% safe. And you should realize this BEFORE OCI hits.


Plenty of the wildcard factor can be changed in law. WE, IP, URM obviously can't. But networking can, making a resume technically good even if your substance sucks. Also, part of the wildcard is biding strategy and outside OCI job search strategy. You only get a certain amount of OCI interview slots, and you should use them for maximum effect. I saw people waste high bids on firms that just were never, ever, ever going to take them. A little research and realism would have helped. I saw people go the other way and bid on 15 shitty Chicago firms who have 1-3 SA's each summer.

Effectively mass mailing is huge. Knowing how to sell yourself in an interview. Even if you suck at interviewing, you can figure out what you should be saying. Have intelligent questions, be able to have a coherent answer to common questions.

PROTIP: Don't say your greatest weakness is writing, don't threaten to beat up a named partner, and don't quote the song Ebony and Ivory to a black and white pair of associates.

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Grizz
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Re: How bad is the legal job market?

Postby Grizz » Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:07 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Grizz wrote:
IAFG wrote:^^ everything this guy said.

Seriously. 100% credited. TLS places a lot of emphasis on grades because that's the only thing you can change one you're in law school (can't get new strong ties, WE, IP, URM, etc.). But 0L and 1L shouldn't take it to mean that it's the only thing, or that a certain level or grades will make you 100% safe. And you should realize this BEFORE OCI hits.


Plenty of the wildcard factor can be changed in law. WE, IP, URM obviously can't. But networking can, making a resume technically good even if your substance sucks. Also, part of the wildcard is biding strategy and outside OCI job search strategy. You only get a certain amount of OCI interview slots, and you should use them for maximum effect. I saw people waste high bids on firms that just were never, ever, ever going to take them. A little research and realism would have helped. I saw people go the other way and bid on 15 shitty Chicago firms who have 1-3 SA's each summer.

Effectively mass mailing is huge. Knowing how to sell yourself in an interview. Even if you suck at interviewing, you can figure out what you should be saying. Have intelligent questions, be able to have a coherent answer to common questions.

PROTIP: Don't say your greatest weakness is writing, don't threaten to beat up a named partner, and don't quote the song Ebony and Ivory to a black and white part of associates.


I meant wildcard factors about your background, not what you can do to increase your chances (bid well, network, mail, etc.), but this is credited as well.

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Grizz
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Re: How bad is the legal job market?

Postby Grizz » Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:08 pm

Desert Fox wrote:PROTIP: Don't say your greatest weakness is writing,

Also, did I tell you I did this? Dude asks for 2 weaknesses. Had only 1 prepared, went for "my writing" stupidly as the other. Whoops.

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johansantana21
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Re: How bad is the legal job market?

Postby johansantana21 » Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:09 pm

So this means without URM/IP/Great WE, you would have to be significantly better than median?

Most schools can't you discount about 15-20% to URMs? No clue on IP hires but just guessing like 5%?

09042014
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Re: How bad is the legal job market?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:10 pm

Grizz wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:PROTIP: Don't say your greatest weakness is writing,

Also, did I tell you I did this? Dude asks for 2 weaknesses. Had only 1 prepared, went for "my writing" stupidly as the other. Whoops.


Haha, wow someone as stupid as me. I did it too. I got tricked into it.

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IAFG
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Re: How bad is the legal job market?

Postby IAFG » Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:14 pm

Desert Fox wrote:You only get a certain amount of OCI interview slots, and you should use them for maximum effect.

At our school, having the endurance to keep picking firms up on open sign-up was helpful. But yeah not going to any and all possible diversity fairs is pennywise and pound foolish. What's a $300 plane ticket and $50 hotel room compared to crushing unemployment.

Anonymous User
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Re: How bad is the legal job market?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:19 pm

IAFG wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:You only get a certain amount of OCI interview slots, and you should use them for maximum effect.

At our school, having the endurance to keep picking firms up on open sign-up was helpful. But yeah not going to any and all possible diversity fairs is pennywise and pound foolish. What's a $300 plane ticket and $50 hotel room compared to crushing unemployment.


Yea I got 3 callbacks out of open sign up slots. Led to one offer, and one rejection.

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Grizz
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Re: How bad is the legal job market?

Postby Grizz » Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:27 pm

johansantana21 wrote:So this means without URM/IP/Great WE, you would have to be significantly better than median?


Depends on school, too many other factors at play really.

Most schools can't you discount about 15-20% to URMs? No clue on IP hires but just guessing like 5%?


Some URMs have bad grades, it's not a checkmark that will just get them the jerb. But again, this is all individualized, other factors may be at play.

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Re: How bad is the legal job market?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:28 pm

IAFG wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:You only get a certain amount of OCI interview slots, and you should use them for maximum effect.

At our school, having the endurance to keep picking firms up on open sign-up was helpful. But yeah not going to any and all possible diversity fairs is pennywise and pound foolish. What's a $300 plane ticket and $50 hotel room compared to crushing unemployment.

ORM, 3 offers from diversity fair, none from OCI, shit was so cash.

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johansantana21
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Re: How bad is the legal job market?

Postby johansantana21 » Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
IAFG wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:You only get a certain amount of OCI interview slots, and you should use them for maximum effect.

At our school, having the endurance to keep picking firms up on open sign-up was helpful. But yeah not going to any and all possible diversity fairs is pennywise and pound foolish. What's a $300 plane ticket and $50 hotel room compared to crushing unemployment.

ORM, 3 offers from diversity fair, none from OCI, shit was so cash.


ORM? Asian? Indian?

They have diversity fairs for ORMs?

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Grizz
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Re: How bad is the legal job market?

Postby Grizz » Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:29 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Grizz wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:PROTIP: Don't say your greatest weakness is writing,

Also, did I tell you I did this? Dude asks for 2 weaknesses. Had only 1 prepared, went for "my writing" stupidly as the other. Whoops.


Haha, wow someone as stupid as me. I did it too. I got tricked into it.

Should have just went with "my mile time."

Anonymous User
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Re: How bad is the legal job market?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:31 pm

johansantana21 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
IAFG wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:You only get a certain amount of OCI interview slots, and you should use them for maximum effect.

At our school, having the endurance to keep picking firms up on open sign-up was helpful. But yeah not going to any and all possible diversity fairs is pennywise and pound foolish. What's a $300 plane ticket and $50 hotel room compared to crushing unemployment.

ORM, 3 offers from diversity fair, none from OCI, shit was so cash.


ORM? Asian? Indian?

They have diversity fairs for ORMs?

Somewhat Asian.

Also, Asians are minorities, hence diversity. Even if they were overrepresented in the legal profession, do you think they screen minorities at the door? Lawl.

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johansantana21
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Re: How bad is the legal job market?

Postby johansantana21 » Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:32 pm

I would feel pretty awkward being there as an ORM. Don't know but I would just implicitly assume that since there are too many Asians they would just ignore you.

But then again I'm not Asian so what do I know.

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IAFG
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Re: How bad is the legal job market?

Postby IAFG » Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:34 pm

johansantana21 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
IAFG wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:You only get a certain amount of OCI interview slots, and you should use them for maximum effect.

At our school, having the endurance to keep picking firms up on open sign-up was helpful. But yeah not going to any and all possible diversity fairs is pennywise and pound foolish. What's a $300 plane ticket and $50 hotel room compared to crushing unemployment.

ORM, 3 offers from diversity fair, none from OCI, shit was so cash.


ORM? Asian? Indian?

They have diversity fairs for ORMs?

Only a TLSer would question if ORMs can go to diversity fairs. Women can go to most of them too. Between chicks, Asians & Indians, most of any given law school could sign up.

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johansantana21
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Re: How bad is the legal job market?

Postby johansantana21 » Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:37 pm

Lol, so the only person who can't go is a white male. Pity me.

09042014
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Re: How bad is the legal job market?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:38 pm

johansantana21 wrote:Lol, so the only person who can't go is a white male. Pity me.


They won't know if you are gay or not. And they can't ask.

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Re: How bad is the legal job market?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:39 pm

johansantana21 wrote:I would feel pretty awkward being there as an ORM. Don't know but I would just implicitly assume that since there are too many Asians they would just ignore you.

But then again I'm not Asian so what do I know.

8 screeners, 4 CBs, and 3 offers speaks for itself brother. Why would I not do EVERYTHING in my power to get a jorb. Like IAFG, it's not just URMs. No awkwardness in the least.

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Grizz
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Re: How bad is the legal job market?

Postby Grizz » Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:39 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
johansantana21 wrote:Lol, so the only person who can't go is a white male. Pity me.


They won't know if you are gay or not. And they can't ask.


No one can't go. They're not gonna kick you out.

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johansantana21
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Re: How bad is the legal job market?

Postby johansantana21 » Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:40 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
johansantana21 wrote:Lol, so the only person who can't go is a white male. Pity me.


They won't know if you are gay or not. And they can't ask.


Is this how you got your jobs?

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IAFG
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Re: How bad is the legal job market?

Postby IAFG » Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:40 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
johansantana21 wrote:Lol, so the only person who can't go is a white male. Pity me.


They won't know if you are gay or not. And they can't ask.

it's all preselected though. i have to imagine they're scanning resumes for BLSA/APALSA/SALSA/OutLaw.




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