Diverse enough for diversity fellowship?

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Anonymous User
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Re: Diverse enough for diversity fellowship?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:27 pm

moandersen wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:^ Umm... I can't imagine there's any sort of test, lol, but if you're straight don't claim to be LGBT just to be considered for diversity fellowships and scholarships.

Are non-URM minorities (Indian Asians, etc.) considered for "diversity fellowships" even if they're over-represented in law schools/the legal profession


Yup - I got my 1L SA through a diversity program.


If you don't mind me asking, what did you write your diversity essay on?

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bostonlawchick
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Re: Diverse enough for diversity fellowship?

Postby bostonlawchick » Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:10 pm

BlakcMajikc wrote:
bostonlawchick wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I've been looking at a lot of firms diversity fellowship programs for 1L's and trying to figure out if I could have a shot. I'm white, upper middle class from the burbs of a big city. But, I'm a Mormon, which is unique and certainly diverse. I served a two year mission to a third world country as part of this. Please don't make this a religious debate, but do you think I could have a decent diversity claim, or do they only like the more liberal traditional types of diversity (racial, LGBT, disability, etc.)?

Advice is much appreciated. Thanks in advance!


I doubt it. Firms want diversity because their clients want diversity, and I don't know that clients care that much about religious diversity. You can't tell you're a Mormon just by looking at you, and you probably shouldn't be discussing it with clients, so I just don't see how it would matter to a firm.


I don't have an opinion about firms caring about religious diversity, but I'm not sure about that line of reasoning b/c LGBT could fall into that same category as well...


You're right about that. I have no idea how they can tell if you are LGBT, because I am in no way diverse and haven't applied to any of these programs.

I know this is going to sound awful, and I don't mean to be stereotypical, but I would say it is going to be more obvious to employers and clients in face to face conversation whether someone is LGBT than whether they are Mormon. I realize this isn't always true, but I feel like that's why firms care about this kind of diversity. For diversity to matter (not in an actual way -obviously the more diversity the better- but in an "OMG, look at how diverse we are in our firm literature" way), you need to be able to KNOW that people are diverse. Personally, I don't agree with any of it, but that is neither here nor there.

I really just don't see religious diversity as something firms will care about.

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Re: Diverse enough for diversity fellowship?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:28 pm

i'm curious about this as well from a different view.

Many of the descriptions mention those who have overcome circumstances to get to law school etc. What about those who are teen parents starting undergrad in their 20's and law school after that?

I'm assuming that these types aren't well represented across law firms, but even then this isn't something that firms can parade in front of their clients as an example of their diversity.

Thoughts on whether or not this would make one competitive for these fellowships?

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NinerFan
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Re: Diverse enough for diversity fellowship?

Postby NinerFan » Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:02 pm

Anonymous User wrote:i'm curious about this as well from a different view.

Many of the descriptions mention those who have overcome circumstances to get to law school etc. What about those who are teen parents starting undergrad in their 20's and law school after that?

I'm assuming that these types aren't well represented across law firms, but even then this isn't something that firms can parade in front of their clients as an example of their diversity.

Thoughts on whether or not this would make one competitive for these fellowships?


Doubt it.

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Re: Diverse enough for diversity fellowship?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:16 pm

From what I have been told (usually not explicitly for PC reasons, but through strong suggestions from OCS people I have spoken to) LGBT alone usually won't be enough for a 1L diversity SA job. They add the LGBT on to be inclusive, but they are more targeting racial and socio-economic diversity (if they can, both at once). Most LGBT people that get these diversity SA positions are usually LGBT + some other diversity, not just LGBT or they are such strong candidates they probably could have grabbed one of the few regular 1L SA jobs w/o going the diversity route.

LGBT on its own seems to have a small effect in 2L SA hiring (there are a lot of firm events targeted at LGBT 1Ls in the spring semester), but not really in 1L hiring.

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moandersen
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Re: Diverse enough for diversity fellowship?

Postby moandersen » Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
moandersen wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:^ Umm... I can't imagine there's any sort of test, lol, but if you're straight don't claim to be LGBT just to be considered for diversity fellowships and scholarships.

Are non-URM minorities (Indian Asians, etc.) considered for "diversity fellowships" even if they're over-represented in law schools/the legal profession


Yup - I got my 1L SA through a diversity program.


If you don't mind me asking, what did you write your diversity essay on?


being diverse?

Its all about showing the different experiences/obstacles you faced because of your diversity and how that shaped who you are today.

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IAFG
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Re: Diverse enough for diversity fellowship?

Postby IAFG » Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:02 pm

Anonymous User wrote:From what I have been told (usually not explicitly for PC reasons, but through strong suggestions from OCS people I have spoken to) LGBT alone usually won't be enough for a 1L diversity SA job. They add the LGBT on to be inclusive, but they are more targeting racial and socio-economic diversity (if they can, both at once). Most LGBT people that get these diversity SA positions are usually LGBT + some other diversity, not just LGBT or they are such strong candidates they probably could have grabbed one of the few regular 1L SA jobs w/o going the diversity route.

LGBT on its own seems to have a small effect in 2L SA hiring (there are a lot of firm events targeted at LGBT 1Ls in the spring semester), but not really in 1L hiring.

Are you seriously saying that a poor white kid is going to land one of these?

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shepdawg
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Re: Diverse enough for diversity fellowship?

Postby shepdawg » Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:12 pm

Michael Jackson's and Don King's kids have a better shot at getting scholarships/fellowships than a white kid from an Appalachian trailer park with a 4.0.

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IAFG
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Re: Diverse enough for diversity fellowship?

Postby IAFG » Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:24 pm

shepdawg wrote:Michael Jackson's and Don King's kids have a better shot at getting scholarships/fellowships than a white kid from an Appalachian trailer park with a 4.0.

Michael Jackson's kids are as black as I am

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Re: Diverse enough for diversity fellowship?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:10 pm

IAFG wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:From what I have been told (usually not explicitly for PC reasons, but through strong suggestions from OCS people I have spoken to) LGBT alone usually won't be enough for a 1L diversity SA job. They add the LGBT on to be inclusive, but they are more targeting racial and socio-economic diversity (if they can, both at once). Most LGBT people that get these diversity SA positions are usually LGBT + some other diversity, not just LGBT or they are such strong candidates they probably could have grabbed one of the few regular 1L SA jobs w/o going the diversity route.

LGBT on its own seems to have a small effect in 2L SA hiring (there are a lot of firm events targeted at LGBT 1Ls in the spring semester), but not really in 1L hiring.

Are you seriously saying that a poor white kid is going to land one of these?


Same anonymous as above (just don't want to out my school's OCS).

No a poor white kid isn't going to get one of those, but maybe a poor LGBT white kid might. Still probably not because really these diversity programs are a response to client demands to increase the firms diversity. Those clients are usually corporations for whom diversity largely means racial diversity so firms created these programs to snap up the top "diverse" students early. So yes, in all likelihood 1L Diversity SA jobs all but require racial diversity. That said, racially diverse + LGBT + socioeconomically diverse (with LGBT probably having more power than socioeconomic diversity because its a quantifiable thing is reported to NALP).

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Re: Diverse enough for diversity fellowship?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:52 pm

Just to add to the mix - what about age? I'm a 43 year old 1L: 20 years WE, a kid, very non traditional path but not URM. It never occurred to me that this could count as "diverse." Could it?

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Unitas
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Re: Diverse enough for diversity fellowship?

Postby Unitas » Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Just to add to the mix - what about age? I'm a 43 year old 1L: 20 years WE, a kid, very non traditional path but not URM. It never occurred to me that this could count as "diverse." Could it?


Go look at any firm's partner bio section then come back and tell us how an older white male is in any way diverse.

Life experiences don't make diversity.

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moandersen
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Re: Diverse enough for diversity fellowship?

Postby moandersen » Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Just to add to the mix - what about age? I'm a 43 year old 1L: 20 years WE, a kid, very non traditional path but not URM. It never occurred to me that this could count as "diverse." Could it?


I think your non-traditional background likely helped you in the admissions process, but I doubt there will be much of an impact on employment other than showing your maturity - but even then, you dont need to be 20 years out of college to show that.

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Re: Diverse enough for diversity fellowship?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:27 pm

Unitas wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Just to add to the mix - what about age? I'm a 43 year old 1L: 20 years WE, a kid, very non traditional path but not URM. It never occurred to me that this could count as "diverse." Could it?


Go look at any firm's partner bio section then come back and tell us how an older white male is in any way diverse.

Life experiences don't make diversity.

Actually, I'm not a male. But thanks, anyway.

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Re: Diverse enough for diversity fellowship?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Dec 04, 2011 7:54 pm

Partners at a panel I attended stated that a bit of the pressure for firms to be diverse comes from their clients. Microsoft, for example, will actually award bonuses to the law firms they hire if the firm meets certain diversity metrics. A lot of clients ask for the firm's diversity statistics (including not just who is hired, but who gets placed in what sort of deals). Some just ask, but don't really use it. Others legitimately care. Some clients specifically demand that a minority of some kind (racial, or in the upper levels, a woman) be placed as one of the main faces of the case. Thus, firms will favor in their hiring what fits into those metrics. So it's not necessarily not just that they need you to be a visual minority, they also just need you to count into their statistics that they show clients.

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Unitas
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Re: Diverse enough for diversity fellowship?

Postby Unitas » Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Unitas wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Just to add to the mix - what about age? I'm a 43 year old 1L: 20 years WE, a kid, very non traditional path but not URM. It never occurred to me that this could count as "diverse." Could it?


Go look at any firm's partner bio section then come back and tell us how an older white male is in any way diverse.

Life experiences don't make diversity.

Actually, I'm not a male. But thanks, anyway.


That was highly relevant information. Females do appear to get a boost in firm hiring based on anecdotal evidence I've seen and the consensus on here.

Depending on the diversity fair you can likely go. Ask your career services office about them.

I don't know of any scholarships or firm positions based on being a female but I also didn't look. They are likely out there.

I don't know for sure that females are per se in a diversity category but I would think so.

see here as one example after a two second google search and first link I clicked: http://www.sillscummis.com/about/diversity.asp, Women events are under their diversity initiatives.

Again though, this will have nothing to do with your age or life experiences.

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Re: Diverse enough for diversity fellowship?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:04 am

Please, please don't do this. I went to a diversity fair last summer where there was this one Mormon girl (straight, white, middle class) who managed to convince herself she was diverse. It's just awkward for everyone.

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IAFG
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Re: Diverse enough for diversity fellowship?

Postby IAFG » Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:08 am

Anonymous User wrote:Please, please don't do this. I went to a diversity fair last summer where there was this one Mormon girl (straight, white, middle class) who managed to convince herself she was diverse. It's just awkward for everyone.

Which diversity fair doesn't include women?

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Re: Diverse enough for diversity fellowship?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:15 am

IAFG wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Please, please don't do this. I went to a diversity fair last summer where there was this one Mormon girl (straight, white, middle class) who managed to convince herself she was diverse. It's just awkward for everyone.

Which diversity fair doesn't include women?

The kind I go to, apparently. I'm not saying that women don't qualify as diversity - but when a minority bar association puts on an event, it looks weird to be the only white kid in the room. I'm going on a hunch, but it's a hunch reinforced by the look of horror on her face when she thought I was going to out her on this (separate event, later. I wasn't intending to, but she apparently thought I was).




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