Cravath SHATTERS THE MARKET!

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Old Gregg
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Re: Cravath SHATTERS THE MARKET!

Postby Old Gregg » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:04 pm

Not sure what you're talking about. I'm sorry if I sound condescending. I guess I'm just upset at how short memories seem to be here. 95% of what I'm saying is publicly available information (which is why I didn't post anonymously) and can be verified by reading ATL.

Also, jesus: why are law students spending 10 pages talking about biglaw bonuses? Do that as a first year and you'll get weird looks. Doing that as a law student is just jumping the gun wayyy too much. If you're a 2L, just focus on the summer ahead. If you're a 3L, don't think about a bonus until winter 2013, because that's likely the earliest when you'll be in the running for it.
Last edited by Old Gregg on Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Old Gregg
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Re: Cravath SHATTERS THE MARKET!

Postby Old Gregg » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:06 pm

The places that were really dead were the lower V50s, like Allen & Overy, Orrick, etc. I'm talking months with associates just sitting around on the internet.


Sadly enough, I knew associates sitting around on the internet who worked at V10s.

Yes, there were deals I guess. But the V10 had amassed such huge corporate groups (recall: they were hiring 80-100 summers per year) and they couldn't keep all of them busy. No way.

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Old Gregg
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Re: Cravath SHATTERS THE MARKET!

Postby Old Gregg » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:08 pm

Bronte wrote:
Fresh Prince wrote:All of the V10 except for Wachtell stealthed. Skadden had the sidebar, Cravath deferred twice over, Weil is still deferred for the class of 2011, Simpson offered an "optional" deferral, Covington had a salary freeze. Those are just what I remember.

The V10 was largely better off than the rest of the V100, but 2008 was definitely bad times even for the V10.


Yeah. Another financial crisis would be good for nobody, except maybe those in restructuring divisions.


I've been reading zerohedge too much for my own good, so I'm a little more pessimistic I think. But from talking with people far more senior than me, the conclusion seems to be that we'll all be OK. Things aren't great, but they're OK. And not nearly as bad as just after post-Lehman.

Either way: It doesn't take a V5 insider to know that a credit crunch harms deal flow. Then again, lots of companies are sitting on mountains of cash that they need to spend. Still, you can't just waltz into a deal without bank financing.

Transferthrowaway
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Re: Cravath SHATTERS THE MARKET!

Postby Transferthrowaway » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:22 pm

QUINN REMAINS. KIRKLAND SHATTERS.

These will be the war cries heard throughout the halls of firms.

"Every associate dies, but not every associate really receives a MARKET SHATTERING BONUS."
~ Mel Gibson, Braveheart. (when asked to comment on the bonuses of K&E.)

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Julio_El_Chavo
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Re: Cravath SHATTERS THE MARKET!

Postby Julio_El_Chavo » Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:21 am

Fresh Prince wrote:
Julio_El_Chavo wrote:
Fresh Prince wrote:
This is offset by the fact that these firms are so good at corporate work that they will never run out of business unless the entire financial system collapses. It's the corporate departments of firms OUTSIDE the V10 that take the biggest hits during recessions.


If anything, it's the opposite. V10s that focus on mega deals quickly find that they dry up in a bad economy because credit crunches make financing pretty hard to find on that scale.

But you don't really know how dead Cravath, Skadden, S&C, DPW, etc. were during late 2008, so I'll let you continue to post like you know what you're talking about.


100% dead wrong. If you knew anything about the study of corporate law at all, you'd know that these firms DO NOT only do mega deals. A lot of the deals in corporate law textbooks are medium-sized corporate mergers conducted with the assistance of firms like Skadden and WLRK. The fact of the matter is that EVERYONE wants top corporate law firms to work on their matters. The only reason non-V10 firms get work is because V10s have to literally turn down a shitload of work during good times (and usually during mildly bad times too). PPP at most of the V10 firms barely moved, even during 2008.


Key word was "focus." Yes, these firms do smaller deals, but they aren't their bread and butter, and they don't reap the most fees from them.

Then again, back in 2008, deals even on a smaller scale just weren't happening, so your point really is moot.

You really have no idea how dead these places were after Lehman Bros. collapsed. Kindly GTFO please.


6 months after Lehman Bros, it was biz as usual from what I hear.

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Old Gregg
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Re: Cravath SHATTERS THE MARKET!

Postby Old Gregg » Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:49 am

Julio_El_Chavo wrote:6 months after Lehman Bros, it was biz as usual from what I hear.


You heard wrongly. Things were "biz as usual" only as of January 2010.

I'm glad I'm getting this, though. Slowly, but surely, you're backing from away from your initially totally wrong statements. Hopefully, with some more retreats on your end, we'll reach the truth :lol:

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Old Gregg
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Re: Cravath SHATTERS THE MARKET!

Postby Old Gregg » Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:55 am

This is NOT business as usual in 2009:
February 2009: http://abovethelaw.com/2009/02/dealing- ... e-program/
March 2009: http://abovethelaw.com/2009/03/skadden-offers-a-voluntary-deferral-option/
July 2009: http://abovethelaw.com/2009/07/weil-got ... 1-or-2012/
June 2009: http://abovethelaw.com/2009/06/cravath- ... full-year/

Also occurring in 2009: DPW layoffs, S&C layoffs, layoffs at the above four firms, etc.

Yup, business as usual :lol:

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JusticeHarlan
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Re: Cravath SHATTERS THE MARKET!

Postby JusticeHarlan » Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:18 pm

http://abovethelaw.com/2011/12/associat ... g-bonuses/

Sullivan & Cromwell has shown up to Bigfoot the partnership of Cravath — sort of. It has announced a year-end bonus scale that is very similar to, but slightly better than, the Cravath bonus scale.

And, more importantly, it has promised spring bonuses. The ATL headquarters is around Soho, but we could hear the gnashing of partners’ teeth in both midtown and downtown Manhattan.

Let’s get into the specifics….

Multiple sources report that the S&C scale is the same as the Cravath scale, but with one notable exception: members of the class of 2003 (and more senior) get $42,500. So here’s how the S&C scale looks:

Class of 2010 — $7,500
Class of 2009 — $10,000
Class of 2008 — $15,000
Class of 2007 — $20,000
Class of 2006 — $25,000
Class of 2005 — $30,000
Class of 2004 — $37,500
Class of 2003 (and up) — $42,500

Most importantly for market setting, and for the big picture of Biglaw compensation, the S&C memo stated that yes, there will be spring bonuses in 2012. So this (probably? hopefully?) means that peer firms to Sullivan will pay up more money in a few months — assuming the economy remains on sound footing, of course.


Sorry if I missed a new thread on this or something.

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Re: Cravath SHATTERS THE MARKET!

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:10 pm

Bolt down everything in your home in preparation for the MARKET-SHATTERING news. Kirkland will probably be announcing bonuses this week.

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Re: Cravath SHATTERS THE MARKET!

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Bolt down everything in your home in preparation for the MARKET-SHATTERING news. Kirkland will probably be announcing bonuses this week.

They must just adore how low a bar all the other firms have been setting for them. Easy to shatter the market at this rate.

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Re: Cravath SHATTERS THE MARKET!

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:58 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Bolt down everything in your home in preparation for the MARKET-SHATTERING news. Kirkland will probably be announcing bonuses this week.


Pretty well known throughout the firm that bonuses will, at best, be as good as last year's, and at worst, somewhere between last year and the 2011 Cravath bonus. That said, every penny counts. Just don't expect Boies-level craziness or anything.

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Re: Cravath SHATTERS THE MARKET!

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:18 pm

Fresh Prince wrote:
but their PPP is still pretty astronomical considering they weren't even a V50 until this year.


Just like their bonuses, Cahill's PPP was an anomaly.


Bumping for wrong on the bonuses.
http://abovethelaw.com/2011/12/associat ... bad-again/

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Old Gregg
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Re: Cravath SHATTERS THE MARKET!

Postby Old Gregg » Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:37 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Fresh Prince wrote:
but their PPP is still pretty astronomical considering they weren't even a V50 until this year.


Just like their bonuses, Cahill's PPP was an anomaly.


Bumping for wrong on the bonuses.
http://abovethelaw.com/2011/12/associat ... bad-again/


I think, all in, the amounts will even out.

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Re: Cravath SHATTERS THE MARKET!

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:02 am

Firms that pay above the Cravath/S&C scale bonuses:

Wachtell
Boies Schiller
Susman Godfrey
Kirkland & Ellis
Cahill Gordon
Quinn Emanuel

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Re: Cravath SHATTERS THE MARKET!

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:22 am

Fresh Prince wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Fresh Prince wrote:
but their PPP is still pretty astronomical considering they weren't even a V50 until this year.


Just like their bonuses, Cahill's PPP was an anomaly.


Bumping for wrong on the bonuses.
http://abovethelaw.com/2011/12/associat ... bad-again/


I think, all in, the amounts will even out.


Except the part where Cahill first years are already beating Cravath first years since they just got pre-bonus $10k. You mad because you can't get paid in prestttige points?

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Old Gregg
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Re: Cravath SHATTERS THE MARKET!

Postby Old Gregg » Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:49 am

Anonymous User wrote:Except the part where Cahill first years are already beating Cravath first years since they just got pre-bonus $10k. You mad because you can't get paid in prestttige points?


(a) I don't work for Cravath, so I really don't care about their prestige points.
(b) $10,000 above market isn't nearly enough to make me work at the proverbial shit-hole that is Cahill.

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Re: Cravath SHATTERS THE MARKET!

Postby Grizz » Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:50 am

Transferthrowaway wrote:QUINN REMAINS. KIRKLAND SHATTERS.

These will be the war cries heard throughout the halls of firms.

"Every associate dies, but not every associate really receives a MARKET SHATTERING BONUS."
~ Mel Gibson, Braveheart. (when asked to comment on the bonuses of K&E.)

Under appreciated xoxo style poasting.

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Re: Cravath SHATTERS THE MARKET!

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:44 am

Fresh Prince wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Except the part where Cahill first years are already beating Cravath first years since they just got pre-bonus $10k. You mad because you can't get paid in prestttige points?


(a) I don't work for Cravath, so I really don't care about their prestige points.
(b) $10,000 above market isn't nearly enough to make me work at the proverbial shit-hole that is Cahill.


They didn't even get the base bonus yet -- just an extra surprise $10k. Base could be more. U tso tso mad, which is why you have to bash the firm (and I don't even work there... I just find your anger hilarious). Sorry about your tiny pink bonus and your follower firm.

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Old Gregg
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Re: Cravath SHATTERS THE MARKET!

Postby Old Gregg » Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fresh Prince wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Except the part where Cahill first years are already beating Cravath first years since they just got pre-bonus $10k. You mad because you can't get paid in prestttige points?


(a) I don't work for Cravath, so I really don't care about their prestige points.
(b) $10,000 above market isn't nearly enough to make me work at the proverbial shit-hole that is Cahill.


They didn't even get the base bonus yet -- just an extra surprise $10k. Base could be more. U tso tso mad, which is why you have to bash the firm (and I don't even work there... I just find your anger hilarious). Sorry about your tiny pink bonus and your follower firm.


I'm angry, huh? My bonus is four times the market this year. It's funny how sure you were about where I worked and how much I'm getting paid.

My attitude toward Cahill isn't anger toward the firm. It's anger toward the people who deify a firm that happened to pay more than market last year. It's short sighted. People who praise Cahill fail to understand how shittily they treated their associates just the year before, both in terms of layoffs and in terms of compensation. That Cahill experienced such variation in its success shows just how linked they are to the whims of the market. This shouldn't be surprising, since Cahill's forte is in junk bonds. But it begs the question: If Lehman Bros. II happened again in the form of a Euro-Default, what will happen to Cahill?

And this goes to a larger point that I hope many people considering firms will think about in the future. Just because Latham pays more this year (hypothetically, for the purpose of example), doesn't mean you should forget about what they did but two to three years ago. If you're going to a firm for the money and the "prestige" of its high PPP, which you shouldn't, do so on the basis of consistently high payment and consistently high PPP. Don't suddenly "fall in love" with a firm just because it happens to wow the bonus market one, or even two years in a row.

I'm sure this sounds reasonable, so when you step out of your xoxozomg meme I'm so cool TLSer suit, and want to discuss seriously, I'll be here.

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Re: Cravath SHATTERS THE MARKET!

Postby thesealocust » Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:53 pm

I've never heard anybody who has ever known anybody who worked at Cahill utter a sentence that could even be confused while blackout drunk as praise for Cahill.

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Old Gregg
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Re: Cravath SHATTERS THE MARKET!

Postby Old Gregg » Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:14 pm

thesealocust wrote:I've never heard anybody who has ever known anybody who worked at Cahill utter a sentence that could even be confused while blackout drunk as praise for Cahill.


Same here. But I really have no beef with them, personally. It's just hilarious how short-sighted people can be about these firms.

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Re: Cravath SHATTERS THE MARKET!

Postby thesealocust » Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:39 pm

Fresh Prince wrote:
thesealocust wrote:I've never heard anybody who has ever known anybody who worked at Cahill utter a sentence that could even be confused while blackout drunk as praise for Cahill.


Same here. But I really have no beef with them, personally. It's just hilarious how short-sighted people can be about these firms.


Not people. Law students and lawyers. Big difference.

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Re: Cravath SHATTERS THE MARKET!

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:40 pm

But how about kirkland SHATTERING the market, eh?

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Re: Cravath SHATTERS THE MARKET!

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:53 pm

Kirkland shattered.

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Re: Cravath SHATTERS THE MARKET!

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:33 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Kirkland shattered.


Every framed picture on my walls fell to the floor due to the shattering that occurred.




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