The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
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NinerFan
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby NinerFan » Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:02 pm

bdubs wrote:
c3pO4 wrote: Large firms are easy to apply to if you are qualified, but in all likelihood you aren't qualified for a V100 1L SA.


Care to elaborate on what would "qualify" someone for a V100 1L SA? Is it just grades, and/or diversity? Are there some experience profiles that they are actually looking for?


A lot of the 1L SA's I heard about were looking for diversity. Some firms come to spring interviews on campus and pick off top performers.


That said, the obsession here with 1L jobs and judicial clerkships is a bit confusing. If you can find something that gets you paid, that's nifty, but it's not a necessity. You can RA for a professor, work for non-profits, volunteer for a govt agency, etc, and dominate 2L employment just fine. Many many of my classmates with big law jobs worked in non-profit or RA'd. Finals are much more important right now than job searching.

In fact, I now think that the most important thing you can do during 1L employment is to work in your target market if you have no ties or weak ties to it.

c3pO4
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby c3pO4 » Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:07 pm

NinerFan wrote:
bdubs wrote:
c3pO4 wrote: Large firms are easy to apply to if you are qualified, but in all likelihood you aren't qualified for a V100 1L SA.


Care to elaborate on what would "qualify" someone for a V100 1L SA? Is it just grades, and/or diversity? Are there some experience profiles that they are actually looking for?


A lot of the 1L SA's I heard about were looking for diversity. Some firms come to spring interviews on campus and pick off top performers.


That said, the obsession here with 1L jobs and judicial clerkships is a bit confusing. If you can find something that gets you paid, that's nifty, but it's not a necessity. You can RA for a professor, work for non-profits, volunteer for a govt agency, etc, and dominate 2L employment just fine. Many many of my classmates with big law jobs worked in non-profit or RA'd. Finals are much more important right now than job searching.

In fact, I now think that the most important thing you can do during 1L employment is to work in your target market if you have no ties or weak ties to it.


Yes, yes, yes. Seriously you can get away with working at a restaurant and researching for a prof and still clean up during 2L OCI. The target market thing is really huge. If there is any questions about your ties to a market, get a job there. Outside that, your 1L job is soooo irrelevant, if you are ultimately hoping for a biglaw track.

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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:10 pm

(3L from a T14; got a 1L SA through personal connections / strong first semester grades)

1L SAs tend to cluster in three main categories. They are, in no particular order:

(1) Diversity positions (many firms bring on one or several diverse 1Ls)

(2) Positions obtained through connections (connection can be broadly defined - language skills that the firm needs could work, family connections, personal connections, some schools even have scholarships that guarantee 1L SAs. Basically any position that would be unlikely to go to a well qualified candidate applying through a mass mailing)

(3) Southern and/or smaller markets, particularly in Alabama and Texas - many firms here just have a practice of hiring small but statistically significant 1L SA classes. Many firms in small markets like to snag promising students with strong ties for 1L positions in hopes they'll return to that market instead of heading off to a big city.

At any given school a very large portion of 1L SAs will fall into those three categories. It's a race seldom won based on 1L fall grades alone. There are some firms which will throw a bone to somebody who knows their first semester out of the park, in every market, so it's worth a shot - but it's silly to think of it as something "you need to be in the top 10%" to get because it just usually doesn't hash out that way.

Also, to reiterate, if your goal is a biglaw job via 2L OCI / mailings then as long as you do something legal your 1L year the particular job you have won't matter at all. Talking intelligently about it will, but a CoA internship isn't going to knock the socks off of a recruiter more than working for legal aid or being an RA will. Obviously has the potential to be a better experience, but that's neither here nor there.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:(3L from a T14; got a 1L SA through personal connections / strong first semester grades)

1L SAs tend to cluster in three main categories. They are, in no particular order:

(1) Diversity positions (many firms bring on one or several diverse 1Ls)

(2) Positions obtained through connections (connection can be broadly defined - language skills that the firm needs could work, family connections, personal connections, some schools even have scholarships that guarantee 1L SAs. Basically any position that would be unlikely to go to a well qualified candidate applying through a mass mailing)

(3) Southern and/or smaller markets, particularly in Alabama and Texas - many firms here just have a practice of hiring small but statistically significant 1L SA classes. Many firms in small markets like to snag promising students with strong ties for 1L positions in hopes they'll return to that market instead of heading off to a big city.

At any given school a very large portion of 1L SAs will fall into those three categories. It's a race seldom won based on 1L fall grades alone. There are some firms which will throw a bone to somebody who knows their first semester out of the park, in every market, so it's worth a shot - but it's silly to think of it as something "you need to be in the top 10%" to get because it just usually doesn't hash out that way.

Also, to reiterate, if your goal is a biglaw job via 2L OCI / mailings then as long as you do something legal your 1L year the particular job you have won't matter at all. Talking intelligently about it will, but a CoA internship isn't going to knock the socks off of a recruiter more than working for legal aid or being an RA will. Obviously has the potential to be a better experience, but that's neither here nor there.


This is a great breakdown of the categories. Agree completely with this. The only quibble I have is that I think it may possibly hurt a person if all they do is RA for the summer. I know some people who struggled during OCI who had just taken summer classes and/or RA'd. While it there may have been other factors in place, I think some firms want SOME sort of actual legal experience for the summer and being an RA might not offer that (though it may...or you may be able to spin it in a really great way).

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BEAST_mode
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby BEAST_mode » Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:20 pm

chimp wrote:For those of you that have applied to/are going to apply to extern for Fed. District Court judges, how many did you/are you going to apply to?



I've got a list of maybe 35-45, but I don't know whether that is safe. The rest are all state supreme. I'm wondering if it's even worth applying for externships with Fed. COA if I'm not T14. Any insight?

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NinerFan
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby NinerFan » Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:24 pm

Richie Tenenbaum wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:(3L from a T14; got a 1L SA through personal connections / strong first semester grades)

1L SAs tend to cluster in three main categories. They are, in no particular order:

(1) Diversity positions (many firms bring on one or several diverse 1Ls)

(2) Positions obtained through connections (connection can be broadly defined - language skills that the firm needs could work, family connections, personal connections, some schools even have scholarships that guarantee 1L SAs. Basically any position that would be unlikely to go to a well qualified candidate applying through a mass mailing)

(3) Southern and/or smaller markets, particularly in Alabama and Texas - many firms here just have a practice of hiring small but statistically significant 1L SA classes. Many firms in small markets like to snag promising students with strong ties for 1L positions in hopes they'll return to that market instead of heading off to a big city.

At any given school a very large portion of 1L SAs will fall into those three categories. It's a race seldom won based on 1L fall grades alone. There are some firms which will throw a bone to somebody who knows their first semester out of the park, in every market, so it's worth a shot - but it's silly to think of it as something "you need to be in the top 10%" to get because it just usually doesn't hash out that way.

Also, to reiterate, if your goal is a biglaw job via 2L OCI / mailings then as long as you do something legal your 1L year the particular job you have won't matter at all. Talking intelligently about it will, but a CoA internship isn't going to knock the socks off of a recruiter more than working for legal aid or being an RA will. Obviously has the potential to be a better experience, but that's neither here nor there.


This is a great breakdown of the categories. Agree completely with this. The only quibble I have is that I think it may possibly hurt a person if all they do is RA for the summer. I know some people who struggled during OCI who had just taken summer classes and/or RA'd. While it there may have been other factors in place, I think some firms want SOME sort of actual legal experience for the summer and being an RA might not offer that (though it may...or you may be able to spin it in a really great way).


I don't think being an RA places you at much of a disadvantage, if at all. If your professor is well-connected, it could even help.

071816
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby 071816 » Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:25 pm

BEAST_mode wrote:
chimp wrote:For those of you that have applied to/are going to apply to extern for Fed. District Court judges, how many did you/are you going to apply to?



I've got a list of maybe 35-45, but I don't know whether that is safe. The rest are all state supreme. I'm wondering if it's even worth applying for externships with Fed. COA if I'm not T14. Any insight?


No insight, sorry. I just know that people from my school have gotten them, so it couldn't hurt to try. What school are you at? My list is about 40 or so as well.

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beachbum
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby beachbum » Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:35 pm

Gonna try and apply 12/1 to the big firms in my home market, and to a particular federal judge I have a pretty good connection with. Everything else will have to wait until after finals. Good luck to everyone.

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theavrock
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby theavrock » Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:38 pm

So what is the consensus on mailing? Snail mail or email?

I had thought email, but it appears most here are doing snail?

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:38 pm

NinerFan wrote:I don't think being an RA places you at much of a disadvantage, if at all. If your professor is well-connected, it could even help.


Yeah, I might be just drawing inferences from a tiny sample size. I went into 2L OCI thinking that 1L job didn't matter at all (as long as it was legal), but it seemed like the people who go the most "prestigious" 1L jobs were typically the ones who did the best at OCI. But maybe instead of me now emphasizing the importance 1L jobs more, the better explanation might be that the 1L job is just a good indicator that person had desirable attributes (grades/personality/connections) that landed them the 1L job in the first place. Same might hold true for the people who struggled to find a 1L job and ended up just taking classes/RA'ing. (That's not to say that those options are "settling" options--it might make more sense for you to do one or both of them.)

And I definitely agree that grades are way more important.

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NinerFan
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby NinerFan » Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:44 pm

theavrock wrote:So what is the consensus on mailing? Snail mail or email?

I had thought email, but it appears most here are doing snail?


Emailed all of mine. I also don't understand why 1Ls are apparently too scared to just ask or poke around. Generally, if not always, firms want you to email.

Judges? Most of the ones I contacted didn't care. Just call up their chambers. It's not like you're going to talk to them. You'll get a clerk or something, and they will know and tell you. They get this every year, they know the drill. If you're REALLY that scared, block your number and then call. They won't ask who you are.

adonai
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby adonai » Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:51 pm

Sent off apps to AUSA and FPD last week. Everyone stresses 12/1, but I did some research for my particular area and seems like apps could have been sent in as early as September. Also, not sure if it doesn't absolutely matter what you did your 1L summer for a firm job. Seems like if you are too PI/govt oriented, you should stay away from both of those if you want to have firms take you seriously. Still deciding whether or not I should even try for a firm job given my school rank, but after some research I found that one of the hiring attorneys is on the board of an org. I worked for. Do things like these ever give a bump at all?

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Antrim
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby Antrim » Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:05 pm

Is e-mailing good for firms only, or can you e-mail for judges as well? Also, if you do snail mail, do you have to send them off in an 8x11 envelope or is it ok to do a tri-fold in a standard 3x5?

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NYC Law
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby NYC Law » Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:45 pm

I'm applying to all the district/bankruptcy judges in NYC/Brooklyn and in my hometown. My school gives us a spreadsheet of all the Fed. Judges, mail merge ready, so it's pretty easy to shoot off a mass mail. I should have about 150 all together. Also going to do the State Sup. Ct. Appellate Division judges in NYC.

And yeah, I think most firms prefer email. Don't email judges though, snail mail only.
#10 Envelope, trifolded.

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NinerFan
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby NinerFan » Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:06 pm

NYC Law wrote:I'm applying to all the district/bankruptcy judges in NYC/Brooklyn and in my hometown. My school gives us a spreadsheet of all the Fed. Judges, mail merge ready, so it's pretty easy to shoot off a mass mail. I should have about 150 all together. Also going to do the State Sup. Ct. Appellate Division judges in NYC.

And yeah, I think most firms prefer email. Don't email judges though, snail mail only.
#10 Envelope, trifolded.


Maybe this is a big city thing, because most of the judges I applied to told me they preferred email. For clerkships, yeah, I think you use snail-mail, but for 1L internships? Seems excessive.

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NYC Law
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby NYC Law » Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:09 pm

NinerFan wrote:
NYC Law wrote:I'm applying to all the district/bankruptcy judges in NYC/Brooklyn and in my hometown. My school gives us a spreadsheet of all the Fed. Judges, mail merge ready, so it's pretty easy to shoot off a mass mail. I should have about 150 all together. Also going to do the State Sup. Ct. Appellate Division judges in NYC.

And yeah, I think most firms prefer email. Don't email judges though, snail mail only.
#10 Envelope, trifolded.


Maybe this is a big city thing, because most of the judges I applied to told me they preferred email. For clerkships, yeah, I think you use snail-mail, but for 1L internships? Seems excessive.


Odd, our CPC made it clear we don't email judges. Don't follow up either. Just snail mail em and wait.

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theavrock
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby theavrock » Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:23 pm

So a lot of positions I am seeing, especially those in government are asking for writing samples. Problem is for whatever reason we LRW 2nd sem. and 1st semester of 2L. Any suggestions on what to provide?

The only thing I have is a memo that was by far secondary to class, IE: no formal training on citing or anything. Just here is the form and purpose a legal memo follows, have at it.

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ilovesf
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby ilovesf » Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:30 pm

My school's career site doesn't have any links for sample cover letters for judges - does anyone have a helpful link for that? thanks a bunch!

Anonymous User
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:01 pm

I am:
1L, minority, BS undergrad top 10% (IP qualified, no pat bar yet), T14, 1+ yr of w/e, and have a connection to a(n) interested firm(s) through on-campus networking.
Watch me get an offer job by Dec. 3rd.

c3pO4
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby c3pO4 » Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:02 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I am:
1L, minority, BS undergrad top 10% (IP qualified, no pat bar yet), T14, 1+ yr of w/e, and have a connection to a(n) interested firm(s) through on-campus networking.
Watch me get an offer job by Dec. 3rd.


haha arrogant. but, you probably will.

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drmguy
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby drmguy » Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:03 pm

ilovesf wrote:My school's career site doesn't have any links for sample cover letters for judges - does anyone have a helpful link for that? thanks a bunch!


Just google "law cover letter"

AP-375
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby AP-375 » Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:18 pm

How many firms are people applying to? I think I'll do around 50. Knowing that the odds are so low, I don't think I can justify the time to apply to more firms where I have no ties or interest.

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ilovesf
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby ilovesf » Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:22 pm

drmguy wrote:
ilovesf wrote:My school's career site doesn't have any links for sample cover letters for judges - does anyone have a helpful link for that? thanks a bunch!


Just google "law cover letter"

duh, I've already done that. The first couple of pages either have public interest or private, but none specifically for judges. I was just wondering if anyone had any that they had already seen and thought were good.

ElectricDreamMachine
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby ElectricDreamMachine » Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:26 pm

Quick question:

I'm sending out cover letters/resumes to federal judges on 12/1. Just wondering if it's acceptable to put them in the mail on the 30th?

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pjo
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby pjo » Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I am:
1L, minority, BS undergrad top 10% (IP qualified, no pat bar yet), T14, 1+ yr of w/e, and have a connection to a(n) interested firm(s) through on-campus networking.
Watch me get an offer job by Dec. 3rd.


No.




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