The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

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Dany
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby Dany » Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:35 pm

I honestly don't know - I'm just a 1L repeating what I was told by the people I know in firms. It seemed to me like the firms who would care about that would just ask, but I'm really not sure. Maybe ask a 2L who's been through OCI?

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acrossthelake
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby acrossthelake » Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:04 am

InnocuousDiatribe wrote:
Dany wrote:Firms don't care what you do 1L summer unless it's non-legal, but if you work for a firm I've heard from several biglaw attorneys that they want to see you have an offer after your 1L summer and that it looks bad if your 1L summer firm doesn't ask you to come back.


I was wondering about this actually. Would it be proper[] to denote that you received an offer to return Summer 2L on your resume? Or is this something that you'd bring up during interviews?

Spelling edit.


Some firms won't ask. Others will. Don't put it on your resume.

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reformed calvinist
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby reformed calvinist » Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:06 am

What's the time frame for judges getting back to you? I've had friends get offered on the spot, and offered 2-3 weeks later. I know it's late--I didn't think I wanted a judicial internship and changed my mind late in the game. I interviewed separately with each of the judge's clerks, and I think I did well, but it's coming up on two weeks. I guess I should see the writing on the wall :(

That was my only judicial one though. Just frustrating: 4 interviews down, 2 of them 2 weeks ago (no word, sent thank you letters). Have an interview with a prosecutor's office next week. Hopefully that pans out since they could probably use the free labor, even though I'm just a 1L. I guess I shouldn't have stopped applying when I did. Christ.

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Entchen
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby Entchen » Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:56 am

reformed calvinist wrote:What's the time frame for judges getting back to you? I've had friends get offered on the spot, and offered 2-3 weeks later. I know it's late--I didn't think I wanted a judicial internship and changed my mind late in the game. I interviewed separately with each of the judge's clerks, and I think I did well, but it's coming up on two weeks. I guess I should see the writing on the wall :(

That was my only judicial one though. Just frustrating: 4 interviews down, 2 of them 2 weeks ago (no word, sent thank you letters). Have an interview with a prosecutor's office next week. Hopefully that pans out since they could probably use the free labor, even though I'm just a 1L. I guess I shouldn't have stopped applying when I did. Christ.


I'm sure different judges do different things, but I interviewed with three and two gave me on-the-spot offers, and the third called about an hour after I'd left. One basically said outright that he didn't interview people he wasn't prepared to make an offer to.

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reformed calvinist
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby reformed calvinist » Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:58 am

Entchen wrote:
reformed calvinist wrote:What's the time frame for judges getting back to you? I've had friends get offered on the spot, and offered 2-3 weeks later. I know it's late--I didn't think I wanted a judicial internship and changed my mind late in the game. I interviewed separately with each of the judge's clerks, and I think I did well, but it's coming up on two weeks. I guess I should see the writing on the wall :(

That was my only judicial one though. Just frustrating: 4 interviews down, 2 of them 2 weeks ago (no word, sent thank you letters). Have an interview with a prosecutor's office next week. Hopefully that pans out since they could probably use the free labor, even though I'm just a 1L. I guess I shouldn't have stopped applying when I did. Christ.


I'm sure different judges do different things, but I interviewed with three and two gave me on-the-spot offers, and the third called about an hour after I'd left. One basically said outright that he didn't interview people he wasn't prepared to make an offer to.


This judge wasn't there when I interviewed (a Friday). Dunno what to think. Whatever.

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acrossthelake
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby acrossthelake » Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:59 am

Entchen wrote:
I'm sure different judges do different things, but I interviewed with three and two gave me on-the-spot offers, and the third called about an hour after I'd left. One basically said outright that he didn't interview people he wasn't prepared to make an offer to.


I've heard similar things to this, though I did not go the judicial route this summer. I would hustle out more applications.

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reformed calvinist
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby reformed calvinist » Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:06 am

acrossthelake wrote:
Entchen wrote:
I'm sure different judges do different things, but I interviewed with three and two gave me on-the-spot offers, and the third called about an hour after I'd left. One basically said outright that he didn't interview people he wasn't prepared to make an offer to.


I've heard similar things to this, though I did not go the judicial route this summer. I would hustle out more applications.


Oh well. He's one of the more senior judges so maybe he hasn't met with the clerks yet or something. Time to keep hustling all the same.

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AreJay711
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby AreJay711 » Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:23 am

Entchen wrote:
reformed calvinist wrote:What's the time frame for judges getting back to you? I've had friends get offered on the spot, and offered 2-3 weeks later. I know it's late--I didn't think I wanted a judicial internship and changed my mind late in the game. I interviewed separately with each of the judge's clerks, and I think I did well, but it's coming up on two weeks. I guess I should see the writing on the wall :(

That was my only judicial one though. Just frustrating: 4 interviews down, 2 of them 2 weeks ago (no word, sent thank you letters). Have an interview with a prosecutor's office next week. Hopefully that pans out since they could probably use the free labor, even though I'm just a 1L. I guess I shouldn't have stopped applying when I did. Christ.


I'm sure different judges do different things, but I interviewed with three and two gave me on-the-spot offers, and the third called about an hour after I'd left. One basically said outright that he didn't interview people he wasn't prepared to make an offer to.


Hahaha I must be a shit interviewer then. Right now, all my offers are from places where I didn't interview.

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reformed calvinist
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby reformed calvinist » Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:28 am

AreJay711 wrote:
Entchen wrote:
reformed calvinist wrote:What's the time frame for judges getting back to you? I've had friends get offered on the spot, and offered 2-3 weeks later. I know it's late--I didn't think I wanted a judicial internship and changed my mind late in the game. I interviewed separately with each of the judge's clerks, and I think I did well, but it's coming up on two weeks. I guess I should see the writing on the wall :(

That was my only judicial one though. Just frustrating: 4 interviews down, 2 of them 2 weeks ago (no word, sent thank you letters). Have an interview with a prosecutor's office next week. Hopefully that pans out since they could probably use the free labor, even though I'm just a 1L. I guess I shouldn't have stopped applying when I did. Christ.


I'm sure different judges do different things, but I interviewed with three and two gave me on-the-spot offers, and the third called about an hour after I'd left. One basically said outright that he didn't interview people he wasn't prepared to make an offer to.


Hahaha I must be a shit interviewer then. Right now, all my offers are from places where I didn't interview.


I didn't get into a single undergrad or law school I interviewed at. I actually did get a judicial offer, but it's not worth it-not in hometown, current city, or anywhere where I have friends or family. Would have been prohibitively expensive because the mass transit there is for shit and I don't have a car.

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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:55 am

I got offered from a family law district judge in Texas who said there wouldnt be writing involved just observing her in trial. is this something I shouldn't go for since it seems kinda useless?

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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby acrossthelake » Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:07 am

Anonymous User wrote:I got offered from a family law district judge in Texas who said there wouldnt be writing involved just observing her in trial. is this something I shouldn't go for since it seems kinda useless?



The main consideration when taking a 1L summer job is whether you're going to have much to say about it for interviews for 2L jobs. You want to talk about (transferable) skills you improved or developed. This is a big part of why most 1L summer jobs are relatively equal--particularly if you're trying to do a firm job 2L year, the transferable skills are usually going to be legal research & writing skills. I would argue that some 1L summer jobs, like summer SAs, really are probably better in this regard, but most jobs don't have the obvious extra benefits, and so are relatively equal.

Just watching trial only is problematic--there's some value to learning about a system from watching, yes, but unless you plan to specifically go into Family Law itself, that's not all that transferable. I'd recommend trying to find something else.

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reformed calvinist
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby reformed calvinist » Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:12 am

acrossthelake wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I got offered from a family law district judge in Texas who said there wouldnt be writing involved just observing her in trial. is this something I shouldn't go for since it seems kinda useless?



The main consideration when taking a 1L summer job is whether you're going to have much to say about it for interviews for 2L jobs. You want to talk about (transferable) skills you improved or developed. This is a big part of why most 1L summer jobs are relatively equal--particularly if you're trying to do a firm job 2L year, the transferable skills are usually going to be legal research & writing skills. I would argue that some 1L summer jobs, like summer SAs, really are probably better in this regard, but most jobs don't have the obvious extra benefits, and so are relatively equal.

Just watching trial only is problematic--there's some value to learning about a system from watching, yes, but unless you plan to specifically go into Family Law itself, that's not all that transferable. I'd recommend trying to find something else.


How does working as a research assistant to a professor look compared to working for a judge or a nonprofit?

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acrossthelake
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby acrossthelake » Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:13 pm

reformed calvinist wrote:
How does working as a research assistant to a professor look compared to working for a judge or a nonprofit?


I know OCS says to avoid working as an RA for a professor if possible unless he/she is doing research in an area in which you are really interested that's somehow relevant.

My thoughts (which might not be right):
I can imagine doing research for Zittrain would be relevant if you wanted to go into IP law (and had other stuff on your resume to back it up, like an engineering major) and that firms would probably thought that made sense. It would make far less sense, and be far less valuable, if you did research with a prof who focused on, say, criminal law, if you were then trying to tell the firm you wanted to go into Corporate M&A.

I think it'd still be better than a judge who only had you sit there and watch all summer, though. You want to ideally walk away with some sort of writing sample and be able to talk about stuff you did that summer.

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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby bk1 » Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:39 pm

acrossthelake wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I got offered from a family law district judge in Texas who said there wouldnt be writing involved just observing her in trial. is this something I shouldn't go for since it seems kinda useless?



The main consideration when taking a 1L summer job is whether you're going to have much to say about it for interviews for 2L jobs. You want to talk about (transferable) skills you improved or developed. This is a big part of why most 1L summer jobs are relatively equal--particularly if you're trying to do a firm job 2L year, the transferable skills are usually going to be legal research & writing skills. I would argue that some 1L summer jobs, like summer SAs, really are probably better in this regard, but most jobs don't have the obvious extra benefits, and so are relatively equal.

Just watching trial only is problematic--there's some value to learning about a system from watching, yes, but unless you plan to specifically go into Family Law itself, that's not all that transferable. I'd recommend trying to find something else.


This makes sense to me and what I would think. I think even the most menial 1L job (let's say RA for example) can be spun in the right way that it sounds decent. If you're not actually working, it's pretty hard to spin that at all.

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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby r6_philly » Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:11 pm

acrossthelake wrote:
reformed calvinist wrote:
How does working as a research assistant to a professor look compared to working for a judge or a nonprofit?


I know OCS says to avoid working as an RA for a professor if possible unless he/she is doing research in an area in which you are really interested that's somehow relevant.

My thoughts (which might not be right):
I can imagine doing research for Zittrain would be relevant if you wanted to go into IP law (and had other stuff on your resume to back it up, like an engineering major) and that firms would probably thought that made sense. It would make far less sense, and be far less valuable, if you did research with a prof who focused on, say, criminal law, if you were then trying to tell the firm you wanted to go into Corporate M&A.


I think it'd still be better than a judge who only had you sit there and watch all summer, though. You want to ideally walk away with some sort of writing sample and be able to talk about stuff you did that summer.


First, being an RA for Zittrain would be awesome.

I think you are correct that being an RA for a professor in your interest area is probably okay, as long as you can talk about meaningful research and produce a good writing sample on the subject. But on the other hand, firms may also wonder/ask why you didn't just be an RA during the school year. The problem with RA is probably because everyone knows it's the safety net for most students - meaning you might be an RA because you didn't get anything else you wanted for whatever reason. Firms may be a little extra cautious with you, assuming you couldn't land a different job for your 1L summer (or why you didn't want to apply to a different job in a "real" work setting).

ETA: simply a bunch of conjectures that I pieced together from different sources. Might be completely off base.

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reformed calvinist
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby reformed calvinist » Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:23 pm

bk1 wrote:
acrossthelake wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I got offered from a family law district judge in Texas who said there wouldnt be writing involved just observing her in trial. is this something I shouldn't go for since it seems kinda useless?



The main consideration when taking a 1L summer job is whether you're going to have much to say about it for interviews for 2L jobs. You want to talk about (transferable) skills you improved or developed. This is a big part of why most 1L summer jobs are relatively equal--particularly if you're trying to do a firm job 2L year, the transferable skills are usually going to be legal research & writing skills. I would argue that some 1L summer jobs, like summer SAs, really are probably better in this regard, but most jobs don't have the obvious extra benefits, and so are relatively equal.

Just watching trial only is problematic--there's some value to learning about a system from watching, yes, but unless you plan to specifically go into Family Law itself, that's not all that transferable. I'd recommend trying to find something else.


This makes sense to me and what I would think. I think even the most menial 1L job (let's say RA for example) can be spun in the right way that it sounds decent. If you're not actually working, it's pretty hard to spin that at all.


I was thinking, working for, say, a Contracts professor who worked at a V10 could be spun in a good way at OCI.

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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I got offered from a family law district judge in Texas who said there wouldnt be writing involved just observing her in trial. is this something I shouldn't go for since it seems kinda useless?

I have to ask. I thought one upside of a judicial internship is securing a good recommendation, mainly on one’s writing. How does one secure a reference from a judge if all you did was sit and watch? “This student did a fine job of sitting and watching.” Seriously.

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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby r6_philly » Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:35 pm

reformed calvinist wrote:
I was thinking, working for, say, a Contracts professor who worked at a V10 could be spun in a good way at OCI.


But why do it in the summer? You could work in a professional setting during the summer, and RA during the school year, but you can't do it the other way. I think if you have decent WE, it's not a big deal, but if you haven't had much real world WE, it may look like you are trying to stay away from actually working.

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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby reformed calvinist » Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:43 pm

r6_philly wrote:
reformed calvinist wrote:
I was thinking, working for, say, a Contracts professor who worked at a V10 could be spun in a good way at OCI.


But why do it in the summer? You could work in a professional setting during the summer, and RA during the school year, but you can't do it the other way. I think if you have decent WE, it's not a big deal, but if you haven't had much real world WE, it may look like you are trying to stay away from actually working.


Oh I completely agree. I'm thinking in terms of contingencies, but maybe I should focus on hustling more right now.

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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby bdubs » Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:47 pm

reformed calvinist wrote:I was thinking, working for, say, a Contracts professor who worked at a V10 could be spun in a good way at OCI.


I was told that employers who see that you RA'd and nothing else think that you were unable to land a real internship. That might be a false assumption sometimes, but I would be cautious. Many judicial externships are flexible enough that people are able to be an RA and an extern, shoot for that.

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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby bk1 » Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:43 pm

reformed calvinist wrote:I was thinking, working for, say, a Contracts professor who worked at a V10 could be spun in a good way at OCI.


I mean of all things I felt like cite-checking a prof's 3000 page treatise is kind of hard to spin (not that all RA's do this but I know some do).

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acrossthelake
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby acrossthelake » Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:54 pm

You just need to pick something where you're going to have a good answer to "Why did you choose to do it?" and "What did you do?"(and inside that your answer to both, you need to talk about the knowledge you acquired and the skills you developed).

Summer SA: Research, writing, how firms work. Experience in a professional setting.
In-House Counsel: Research, writing, how clients work. Experience in a professional setting.
Public Interest Organization: Research, writing, possibly some direct client service depending on the org, though that's more useful if you intend to go into public interest than law firm work. Depends how you spin it. Experience in a professional setting.
Judges: Ideally, research, writing, and an understanding of how judges work, and how that particular judge thinks/decides things. Particularly useful if you're interested in litigation. But, to get the true benefits of this you'd clerk. This is not useful if you only watch. Experience in a professional setting, though not really the type your job would entail, but still valuable.
RA for a professor: There might be research and writing, and you might also just bluebook all summer. Academic, rather than professional, setting. There can be an unfair assumption that you defaulted to this after striking out elsewhere. Depending on the prof, though, if he/she is a superstar in the field you're trying to go into (the Zittrain for IP example), that still might be seen as pretty valuable. If you get a prof willing to pick up and make phone calls for you at places that actually care about his/her phone call, then this has the potential to exceed the value of other 1L summer employment, but this isn't something you count on. Ideally you just RA during the school year.

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Guchster
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby Guchster » Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:04 pm

Am I crazy for thinking about RA'ing for a professor at the same time of my SA this summer?

She's starting a new project (on a topic that i'm highly, highly interested in). Probably would be helping her find out as much as possible about this new topic and writing memos with my findings. Nothing is written yet, so wouldn't involve proofing and bluebooking.

I'm thinking about asking if I can help out in the fall, but part of me wants to do it for the summer too. I kind of like the idea about being at the beginning stages as she develops her arguments and research, and I like her a lot. I'd probably have to do this before I go to work.

Someone talk me out of this.

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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby r6_philly » Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:06 pm

Guchster wrote:Am I crazy for thinking about RA'ing for a professor at the same time of my SA this summer?

She's starting a new project (on a topic that i'm highly, highly interested in). Probably would be helping her find out as much as possible about this new topic and writing memos with my findings. Nothing is written yet, so wouldn't involve proofing and bluebooking.

I'm thinking about asking if I can help out in the fall, but part of me wants to do it for the summer too. I kind of like the idea about being at the beginning stages as she develops her arguments and research, and I like her a lot. I'd probably have to do this before I go to work.

Someone talk me out of this.



Put in a month after your SA is over, and continue into the fall. I may do the same because I am very interested in the project and it directly relates to my area of interest.

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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby bdubs » Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:29 pm

Guchster wrote:I'm thinking about asking if I can help out in the fall, but part of me wants to do it for the summer too. I kind of like the idea about being at the beginning stages as she develops her arguments and research, and I like her a lot. I'd probably have to do this before I go to work.


I know people who have done this (started to RA prior to beginning SA). I think this really depends on the expectations of the professor in terms of how much you will be expected to do. If the professor is OK with giving you a longer term task and being flexible about when you do it, then I would say you should go for it.

If there is an expectation that you work 20 hours a week as an RA, week in and week out, I think that is a recipe for disaster.




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