The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

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Bildungsroman
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby Bildungsroman » Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:05 pm

bk1 wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:Just got an offer from an east-coast PI org I interviewed with. I'm going to ask the firm I interviewed with if they can give me a decision in the next week, but absent an offer from them or some big change I'll be accepting.

They also never mentioned or asked me for grades. :mrgreen:


Congrats bro!
Thanks man.

Does anybody here go to Penn who can tell me where to look for housing in Philadelphia? I'd be working near Independence Hall, but the employer said most interns live where most Penn students live (West Philly, I think?). I need to start checking padmapper for what prices would be like.

thesteelers
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby thesteelers » Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
thesteelers wrote:I have learned one thing. If you have the grades, you don't need to network. If you don't have the grades, all the networking in the world won't help you.


can you elaborate?


Last semester, I built up an impressive roster of mentors/contacts who were working in Biglaw. Went to bar association events and firm events, established some good relationships. Also, I found out that the partner of a firm actually knew my dad from school. Met him, we established a good rapport, he was very warm and encouraging, etc. Thought I had a 1L SA in the bag. Partners know that every word and every sigh from them means something to an ambitious 1L, so he would not have invited me to lunch and spoke to me on the phone and email if he wasn't considering me for a 1L position. Not a partner. Partners have such busy lives, and are sought after by so many people, that no partner in the world would waste time on some 1L student just for the heck of it.

Then grades came out, and mine were not so hot. The partner regretfully said that "We're just not hiring 1Ls right now, but get back to me in August" which is kind-speak for "We don't hire shit grades."

I applied to a bunch of firms where I knew 3+ associates, which may have helped me if I at least had the grades. Nope, I got the same kind-speak again.

So, networking for Biglaw doesn't help if you don't have grades. In PI, maybe.

Anonymous User
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:14 am

thesteelers wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
thesteelers wrote:I have learned one thing. If you have the grades, you don't need to network. If you don't have the grades, all the networking in the world won't help you.


can you elaborate?


Last semester, I built up an impressive roster of mentors/contacts who were working in Biglaw. Went to bar association events and firm events, established some good relationships. Also, I found out that the partner of a firm actually knew my dad from school. Met him, we established a good rapport, he was very warm and encouraging, etc. Thought I had a 1L SA in the bag. Partners know that every word and every sigh from them means something to an ambitious 1L, so he would not have invited me to lunch and spoke to me on the phone and email if he wasn't considering me for a 1L position. Not a partner. Partners have such busy lives, and are sought after by so many people, that no partner in the world would waste time on some 1L student just for the heck of it.

Then grades came out, and mine were not so hot. The partner regretfully said that "We're just not hiring 1Ls right now, but get back to me in August" which is kind-speak for "We don't hire shit grades."

I applied to a bunch of firms where I knew 3+ associates, which may have helped me if I at least had the grades. Nope, I got the same kind-speak again.

So, networking for Biglaw doesn't help if you don't have grades. In PI, maybe.



Yeah I can attest to this too. Had a lot of emails back and forth with a big law firm in Texas and when grades came out and I was at median she flat out told me I only have a chance at a 2L gig if I can raise my rank to 5% which clearly wont happen even if I made a 4.0 this semester.

thesteelers
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby thesteelers » Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:59 am

What I want to know is, what is the minimum rank from which you can get NYC Biglaw for your 2L summer? While I'm going to work hard this semester, I'm trying to be as realistic as possible here. Is top 25% or top 3rd at a T30 going to cut it if you've established some kind of contacts in NYC Biglaw?

r6_philly
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby r6_philly » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:02 am

Bildungsroman wrote:
Does anybody here go to Penn who can tell me where to look for housing in Philadelphia? I'd be working near Independence Hall, but the employer said most interns live where most Penn students live (West Philly, I think?). I need to start checking padmapper for what prices would be like.


Check out craigslist and trulia.com for general for rent listings.

You can also try to sublet from my classmates. PM me if you need help.

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bk1
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby bk1 » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:02 am

thesteelers wrote:What I want to know is, what is the minimum rank from which you can get NYC Biglaw for your 2L summer? While I'm going to work hard this semester, I'm trying to be as realistic as possible here. Is top 25% or top 3rd at a T30 going to cut it if you've established some kind of contacts in NYC Biglaw?


These "contacts" don't sound like they're going to help you land a 2L SA.

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NYC Law
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby NYC Law » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:02 am

thesteelers wrote:What I want to know is, what is the minimum rank from which you can get NYC Biglaw for your 2L summer? While I'm going to work hard this semester, I'm trying to be as realistic as possible here. Is top 25% or top 3rd at a T30 going to cut it if you've established some kind of contacts in NYC Biglaw?


25%-33% from a big city T30 is the range where it's possible, but it'll need more than just grades (i.e. good interviewing skills, networking, work experience).

thesteelers
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby thesteelers » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:04 am

bk1 wrote:
thesteelers wrote:What I want to know is, what is the minimum rank from which you can get NYC Biglaw for your 2L summer? While I'm going to work hard this semester, I'm trying to be as realistic as possible here. Is top 25% or top 3rd at a T30 going to cut it if you've established some kind of contacts in NYC Biglaw?


These "contacts" don't sound like they're going to help you land a 2L SA.


I dunno, if a partner specifically says, "get back to me in August" doesn't that mean he hasn't given up on you? I feel like partners don't say anything unless they mean it, otherwise they wouldn't have made partner.

Am I wrong?

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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:31 am

Do you think the same thing is true within the top 14? I know a big shot partner at a V3 and for whatever reason dude seems to like me and we've talked a few times and he emailed me recently asking if I was going to be working in NYC over the summer. The thing is that while I'm above median, I don't think I have much of a shot at his firm. Is it worth really kissing ass to see if he can get me something (by like working in NYC at significant cost to me since I'm not going to get a SA there at this point) or should I maintain the contact but without worrying over much?

fyi: I'm at about the minimum GPA that the firm has taken from my school.

thesteelers
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby thesteelers » Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:01 am

Anonymous User wrote:Do you think the same thing is true within the top 14? I know a big shot partner at a V3 and for whatever reason dude seems to like me and we've talked a few times and he emailed me recently asking if I was going to be working in NYC over the summer. The thing is that while I'm above median, I don't think I have much of a shot at his firm. Is it worth really kissing ass to see if he can get me something (by like working in NYC at significant cost to me since I'm not going to get a SA there at this point) or should I maintain the contact but without worrying over much?

fyi: I'm at about the minimum GPA that the firm has taken from my school.


If he emailed you, then definitely try for his firm. Partners do not take such interest in a 1L's summer plans, unless you're like his nephew or something.

Don't just assault him with your writing sample and everything, but ask him if his firm is hiring 1Ls this summer and say you're interested. Don't bring your GPA up unless he asks for it. He will ask for it, and then you'll have to say what it is but spin it in the most positive light (i.e. it was your exam taking inexperience, not your knowledge of the subject) and don't try to come up with too many excuses. Just say you're confident you'll do better in the spring.

Send him your resume and transcript if he asks for them.

bdubs
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby bdubs » Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:05 am

thesteelers wrote:If he emailed you, then definitely try for his firm. Partners do not take such interest in a 1L's summer plans, unless you're like his nephew or something.

Don't just assault him with your writing sample and everything, but ask him if his firm is hiring 1Ls this summer and say you're interested. Don't bring your GPA up unless he asks for it. He will ask for it, and then you'll have to say what it is but spin it in the most positive light (i.e. it was your exam taking inexperience, not your knowledge of the subject) and don't try to come up with too many excuses. Just say you're confident you'll do better in the spring.

Send him your resume and transcript if he asks for them.


Think dude is talking about trying to set up a 2L SA by taking an unpaid internship in NYC this summer as a 1L.

IMO - I don't think it's worth it unless you would have worked at the internship in NYC anyway. You can always schedule a trip to NYC and try to meet with the guy then.

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joemoviebuff
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby joemoviebuff » Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:23 pm

Offer at a PD office here in Virginia! I get to interview murderers and rapists!

acrossthelake
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby acrossthelake » Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:40 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:Just got an offer from an east-coast PI org I interviewed with. I'm going to ask the firm I interviewed with if they can give me a decision in the next week, but absent an offer from them or some big change I'll be accepting.

They also never mentioned or asked me for grades. :mrgreen:


Congrats! :)

thesteelers wrote:I have learned one thing. If you have the grades, you don't need to network. If you don't have the grades, all the networking in the world won't help you.


Disagree, but the extent to which it is true probably varies depending on school, market, how bad the grades are, etc.

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Lwoods
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby Lwoods » Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:06 pm

acrossthelake wrote:
thesteelers wrote:I have learned one thing. If you have the grades, you don't need to network. If you don't have the grades, all the networking in the world won't help you.


Disagree, but the extent to which it is true probably varies depending on school, market, how bad the grades are, etc.


There are definitely many, many factors. Grades and school are the biggest, based on what I've observed, but networking can also have a big impact, especially outside of BigLaw.

The tricky thing with BigLaw (as well as bigger companies) is that hiring decisions are typically made by committees, and they really like to have objective standards that they can use to justify hiring decisions, to get everyone on board. However, smaller firms will often place a higher importance on personality and fit because the fewer employees there are, the more difficult it is to avoid people you dislike. Basing fit on a couple of interviews is really difficult, though, so typically those students they've come to know and like through at least a few non-interview encounters are going to seem like the safer bet.

Legal employment definitely seems to be more prestige driven than most industries, but that doesn't mean that networking is useless.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby Bildungsroman » Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:16 pm

Rejected by email from the firm I interviewed with. Kinda bummed since I thought I had a really good shot (it's in my home market that doesn't have any good law schools, I had a previous employee vouching for me), but them's the breaks. I'm sending my acceptance to the PI org that gave me an offer, so even if it ended with a rejection it's still nice to be done with the hunt.

Plus I get to live in Philly for a couple of months, which sounds really cool.

acrossthelake
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby acrossthelake » Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:08 pm

Lwoods wrote:
acrossthelake wrote:
thesteelers wrote:I have learned one thing. If you have the grades, you don't need to network. If you don't have the grades, all the networking in the world won't help you.


Disagree, but the extent to which it is true probably varies depending on school, market, how bad the grades are, etc.


There are definitely many, many factors. Grades and school are the biggest, based on what I've observed, but networking can also have a big impact, especially outside of BigLaw.

The tricky thing with BigLaw (as well as bigger companies) is that hiring decisions are typically made by committees, and they really like to have objective standards that they can use to justify hiring decisions, to get everyone on board. However, smaller firms will often place a higher importance on personality and fit because the fewer employees there are, the more difficult it is to avoid people you dislike. Basing fit on a couple of interviews is really difficult, though, so typically those students they've come to know and like through at least a few non-interview encounters are going to seem like the safer bet.

Legal employment definitely seems to be more prestige driven than most industries, but that doesn't mean that networking is useless.


Networking can net you interviews where you might not have gotten interviews originally, but yeah it's unlikely to overcome poor grades. It probably helps a fair bit if your grades are more mediocre or among the weaker of what they tend to take by the firm's standards, rather than poor.

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drmguy
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby drmguy » Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:00 pm

Just got my first interview request, but I am not really sure what to do.

It's a fed. district judge on the east coast and I plan on transferring/practicing on the west coast.

Would I be better off holding out and getting something likely less prestigious in my target market or would I be better off going for this? Do employers care if you externed on the opposite coast?

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bk1
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby bk1 » Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:10 pm

drmguy wrote:Just got my first interview request, but I am not really sure what to do.

It's a fed. district judge on the east coast and I plan on transferring/practicing on the west coast.

Would I be better off holding out and getting something likely less prestigious in my target market or would I be better off going for this? Do employers care if you externed on the opposite coast?


I'm just guessing, but I think it would have to do with the strength of your ties to where you want to work. If they are weak/tenuous then you might want to reinforce them with working there for the summer. If they are strong then I think you are more free to choose what you want.

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drmguy
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby drmguy » Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:14 pm

bk1 wrote:
drmguy wrote:Just got my first interview request, but I am not really sure what to do.

It's a fed. district judge on the east coast and I plan on transferring/practicing on the west coast.

Would I be better off holding out and getting something likely less prestigious in my target market or would I be better off going for this? Do employers care if you externed on the opposite coast?


I'm just guessing, but I think it would have to do with the strength of your ties to where you want to work. If they are weak/tenuous then you might want to reinforce them with working there for the summer. If they are strong then I think you are more free to choose what you want.


Born, raised, and went to college where I want to work. Other than a college internship, this is my first time away from home.

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bk1
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby bk1 » Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:18 pm

drmguy wrote:Born, raised, and went to college where I want to work. Other than a college internship, this is my first time away from home.


Personally I think you're fine. I'm in the same boat and will likely take the best job that comes my way without regard to location since I don't think employers back home will question my desire to be there after law school.

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dabomb75
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby dabomb75 » Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:29 pm

4 interviews in the next 6 days. Extremely stressful/exciting at the same time.

All I want is to have something in my pocket within the next couple of weeks so I can stop stressing about jobs and actually think about schoolwork for the first time this semester

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Lwoods
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby Lwoods » Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:38 pm

acrossthelake wrote:
Lwoods wrote:
There are definitely many, many factors. Grades and school are the biggest, based on what I've observed, but networking can also have a big impact, especially outside of BigLaw.

The tricky thing with BigLaw (as well as bigger companies) is that hiring decisions are typically made by committees, and they really like to have objective standards that they can use to justify hiring decisions, to get everyone on board. However, smaller firms will often place a higher importance on personality and fit because the fewer employees there are, the more difficult it is to avoid people you dislike. Basing fit on a couple of interviews is really difficult, though, so typically those students they've come to know and like through at least a few non-interview encounters are going to seem like the safer bet.

Legal employment definitely seems to be more prestige driven than most industries, but that doesn't mean that networking is useless.


Networking can net you interviews where you might not have gotten interviews originally, but yeah it's unlikely to overcome poor grades. It probably helps a fair bit if your grades are more mediocre or among the weaker of what they tend to take by the firm's standards, rather than poor.


Definitely; this is precisely in line with what I've witnessed. One anecdote that particularly stood out to me was when I was a legal secretary for a partner on the recruiting committee. I would routinely open her mail (at her request) if it was work related, and she would often open the personal and ambiguous mail in front of me as well. One day I noticed a lovely hand-addressed card. We had a friendly relationship, so when she opened it, I asked whom it was from. She read it, then tossed it in the recycling bin and said it was from someone who interviewed with the firm but wouldn't be hired because of his grades. He had gotten the interview through a contact, but that just wasn't enough. So, I get his frustration, but I still disagree.

I don't have the grades (top 10%) to go back to my old firm...I saw the transcripts of the kids they recruit, so, I'll agree with thesteelers on that part re BigLaw, at least for very grade-focused firms, like my former firm. The kids from my school with the grades, though, still probably won't be hired by my former firm. It's not impossible; they have recruited from here in the past, but in current time, grades alone are not enough. If I did have the grades, though, my networking with my former bosses would, I have no doubt, help for a 2L spot (the only 1L spots are diversity there and rare at that). One of my former coworkers, who went to a lower ranked school than I go to, is currently back working there as an associate and is probably the only person from her school (at least who's graduated in the past decade) at the firm. So yes, networking can be important, even if you have the grades.

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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:11 pm

Anyone heard back from Clifford Chance's Scholars Program????????????????

paulinaporizkova
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby paulinaporizkova » Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:26 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:Rejected by email from the firm I interviewed with.


:(

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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby paulinaporizkova » Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:27 pm

joemoviebuff wrote:Offer at a PD office here in Virginia! I get to interview murderers and rapists!


I<3u




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