The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

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sundance95
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby sundance95 » Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:44 pm

ilovesf wrote:Yeah I knew they did less work I just am not sure if the work environment is different, or if there are just fewer externs because there is less work, etc. Maybe this is something that I should ask the career office instead since none of us have actually externed with one yet.

Senior judges still have a docket, but they control how large or small it is. Therefore, it is difficult to guess exactly what experience you'll get. But, conventional TLS wisdom is that externing with a senior judge generally gives you less substantive experience, as many aren't busy enough to require their externs to do substantive work (i.e., write opinion drafts, etc.), and externs instead end up doing a few bench memos on issues that might or commonly do arise. Since two primary goals of 1L summer are getting interesting stories about the work you did for 2L OCI, as well as a good writing sample, this type of experience is seen as not as good as an externship with a 'regular' chambers.

Again, this is the echo chamber view-YMMV, and I'm a fellow 1L so I'm not speaking from experience.

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sundance95
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby sundance95 » Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:45 pm

One more thing-your career services office will tell you its great, but remember, their incentive is to ensure that as many students as possible have some kind of legal work, NOT that you have the best possible work you could get. Always something to keep in mind with Career Services.

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ilovesf
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby ilovesf » Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:49 pm

sundance95 wrote:
ilovesf wrote:Yeah I knew they did less work I just am not sure if the work environment is different, or if there are just fewer externs because there is less work, etc. Maybe this is something that I should ask the career office instead since none of us have actually externed with one yet.

Senior judges still have a docket, but they control how large or small it is. Therefore, it is difficult to guess exactly what experience you'll get. But, conventional TLS wisdom is that externing with a senior judge generally gives you less substantive experience, as many aren't busy enough to require their externs to do substantive work (i.e., write opinion drafts, etc.), and externs instead end up doing a few bench memos on issues that might or commonly do arise. Since two primary goals of 1L summer are getting interesting stories about the work you did for 2L OCI, as well as a good writing sample, this type of experience is seen as not as good as an externship with a 'regular' chambers.

Again, this is the echo chamber view-YMMV, and I'm a fellow 1L so I'm not speaking from experience.

Ohhh, well crap. I just called the senior judge's office to set up an interview for Monday, so now it is before my interview with the regular judge. Well I'm still super excited.

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Haymarket
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby Haymarket » Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:52 pm

Reasonably sure I'm going to be turning down the PI position I was offered. It's not something my heart is really in...

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sundance95
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby sundance95 » Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:01 pm

ilovesf wrote:Ohhh, well crap. I just called the senior judge's office to set up an interview for Monday, so now it is before my interview with the regular judge. Well I'm still super excited.

Two options-you can call and reschedule, or simply ask for time to make a decision if an offer is extended. I'd doubt a senior judge would lay a 'take it or leave it' offer on you.

Puttanesca
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby Puttanesca » Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:36 pm

queenlizzie13 wrote:
Puttanesca wrote:Had an offer reneged. Don't want to go into too much detail, but it had to do with the firm breaking up (smaller firm). I'm totally screwed now. I stopped sending out applications a while ago, as soon as I got the offer.

It's too late for the firms and judges in my desired market. Are there any fed agencies that might still be taking applications? Where else can I apply at this point in the game?


I'm sorry, that really sucks. Are you sure there aren't any judges hiring in your desired market? There might still be a couple.

I know a couple of DOJ agencies taking applications still and there probably is some non profits, hopefully? Did you not get calls back from the other apps or did you withdraw the apps after you got the offer?

I would look at your schools career site and offerings listed there as well. If you got a firm, you should be able to get something.


I don't know for sure about judges in my desired market. I haven't applied to any. I just think that it's too late because it is a major market, and it seems like for the major markets you have to apply early due to the volume of applicants the courts receive.

I had only sent out 13 applications when I got the offer. I interviewed at two other firms but have not received a decision from them. They were both larger firms, and I doubt either will work out because they are highly highly grade sensitive (e.g. probably around 2/3 of the attorneys are law review + T14, and the others are magna or summa cum laude + law review from a lesser local school). I was either rejected or haven't heard from (= silent rejection) from the other 10.

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ph14
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby ph14 » Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:43 pm

Puttanesca wrote:
queenlizzie13 wrote:
Puttanesca wrote:Had an offer reneged. Don't want to go into too much detail, but it had to do with the firm breaking up (smaller firm). I'm totally screwed now. I stopped sending out applications a while ago, as soon as I got the offer.

It's too late for the firms and judges in my desired market. Are there any fed agencies that might still be taking applications? Where else can I apply at this point in the game?


I'm sorry, that really sucks. Are you sure there aren't any judges hiring in your desired market? There might still be a couple.

I know a couple of DOJ agencies taking applications still and there probably is some non profits, hopefully? Did you not get calls back from the other apps or did you withdraw the apps after you got the offer?

I would look at your schools career site and offerings listed there as well. If you got a firm, you should be able to get something.


I don't know for sure about judges in my desired market. I haven't applied to any. I just think that it's too late because it is a major market, and it seems like for the major markets you have to apply early due to the volume of applicants the courts receive.

I had only sent out 13 applications when I got the offer. I interviewed at two other firms but have not received a decision from them. They were both larger firms, and I doubt either will work out because they are highly highly grade sensitive (e.g. probably around 2/3 of the attorneys are law review + T14, and the others are magna or summa cum laude + law review from a lesser local school). I was either rejected or haven't heard from (= silent rejection) from the other 10.


I don't think it's too late. A lot of employers were waiting to see my grades, which were only released yesterday. Just start applying, you'll be fine.

Anonymous User
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:54 am

Checked the stickied OCI thread but it didn't seem to be very on point for 1L hiring so quick question...about where in the process am I if a firm is flying me to their city for an interview?

Situation where I have to totally Kyle Williams it to lose it or is it more like I've just gotten past the first weeding out?

Or can you even tell from that limited information?

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Flips88
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby Flips88 » Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:47 am

This is how I feel about getting a job:
Image

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bk1
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby bk1 » Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:57 am

Anonymous User wrote:Checked the stickied OCI thread but it didn't seem to be very on point for 1L hiring so quick question...about where in the process am I if a firm is flying me to their city for an interview?

Situation where I have to totally Kyle Williams it to lose it or is it more like I've just gotten past the first weeding out?

Or can you even tell from that limited information?


Your past the first weeding.

Screener Interview --> Callback Interview --> SA Offer

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Dany
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby Dany » Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:13 am

Haymarket wrote:Reasonably sure I'm going to be turning down the PI position I was offered. It's not something my heart is really in...

GOOD.

bdubs
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby bdubs » Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:03 am

Those of you at Chicago better not screw up this summer job thing, you might hurt Brian Leiter's pride. Oh wait.... that's not really possible.

http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/leit ... redux.html

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bk1
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby bk1 » Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:47 pm

bdubs wrote:Those of you at Chicago better not screw up this summer job thing, you might hurt Brian Leiter's pride. Oh wait.... that's not really possible.

http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/leit ... redux.html


Wait, what's there to be proud of? 100% 1L summer employment?

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Judge Philip Banks
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby Judge Philip Banks » Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:31 pm

ilovesf wrote:
bk1 wrote:
ilovesf wrote:question - is there a real difference in externing for a regular fed judge and a senior fed judge?


Aren't senior judges kinda retired? I'd imagine that senior judges do less work though it probably varies case by case (some a bit less than when they were active and some doing a lot less). Maybe the amount of work they do will affect the kind of work that externs will get? Just a guess.

Yeah I knew they did less work I just am not sure if the work environment is different, or if there are just fewer externs because there is less work, etc. Maybe this is something that I should ask the career office instead since none of us have actually externed with one yet.

Senior judges will do less work than when they were more active, but it really varies a lot. I think there are only a few ways you can find out what you'll do for the senior judge you're interviewing with: 1) find out at the actual interview, 2) by talking to the judge's former clerks and/or externs, or 3) by talking to other judges' clerks who knew what the other chambers were doing. Your CSO might be able to help if they have a relationship with the judge, too. But, the best place you'll be able to find out is from the actual interview, since you can hear first-hand what the chambers does and can ask questions if you want.

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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby r6_philly » Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Checked the stickied OCI thread but it didn't seem to be very on point for 1L hiring so quick question...about where in the process am I if a firm is flying me to their city for an interview?

Situation where I have to totally Kyle Williams it to lose it or is it more like I've just gotten past the first weeding out?

Or can you even tell from that limited information?


Depends on the firm. They may be bringing 10 for 1 spot, or 3-4 for 1. But my sense is that this is definitely not quite 2L callback, expect the offer ratio to be significantly lower.

bdubs
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby bdubs » Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:03 pm

bk1 wrote:
bdubs wrote:Those of you at Chicago better not screw up this summer job thing, you might hurt Brian Leiter's pride. Oh wait.... that's not really possible.

http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/leit ... redux.html


Wait, what's there to be proud of? 100% 1L summer employment?


Who knows, I am just amused by Leiter's sense of self-importance and his need to belittle other schools in order to make himself feel good about Chicago (or Texas).

He is the taipeimort of the academic world

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BEAST_mode
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby BEAST_mode » Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:24 am

Flips88 wrote:This is how I feel about getting a job:
Image


My thoughts EXACTLY.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby Bildungsroman » Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:30 am

bdubs wrote:
bk1 wrote:
bdubs wrote:Those of you at Chicago better not screw up this summer job thing, you might hurt Brian Leiter's pride. Oh wait.... that's not really possible.

http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/leit ... redux.html


Wait, what's there to be proud of? 100% 1L summer employment?


Who knows, I am just amused by Leiter's sense of self-importance and his need to belittle other schools in order to make himself feel good about Chicago (or Texas).

He is the taipeimort of the academic world

Laugh all you want, but at least UChicago is publishing data for 1L and 2L summer employment. It would be nice to see other school follow suit and stop trying to shaft potential students so hard.

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YourCaptain
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby YourCaptain » Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:37 am

ilovesf wrote:
queenlizzie13 wrote:
Either that or someone from your school who has externed with a senior judge.

Yeah I know some 2Ls who externed for judges last summer but so far none of them were senior judges.. I'll keep asking around though.


senior judges can be great to work for - they have comparatively fewer interns and clerks (maybe 1 or 2 interns, 1 or 2 clerks) so your relationship with the judge is much more personal.

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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:05 pm

Does anybody know how externships at superior courts (state trial court) are looked at? I'm interested in eventually going into private sector/biglaw, and while most of my classmates are trying for CoA/District courts etc. and I have the grades to look at more competitive positions, the opportunity genuinely interests me. I'm worried that since it's a superior court in a rural area, it's going to look like I couldn't get anything else.

P.S. steamin' with jealousy at yall who got to even interview for SAs. Really impressive!

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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:P.S. steamin' with jealousy at yall who got to even interview for SAs. Really impressive!


At least for my SA interviews, I don't think it was based on merit. I'm from a smaller secondary market that probably no one has any interest unless they grew up there. So, the hometown firms were willing to interview me.

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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby acrossthelake » Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:42 pm

I'm being flown out for a callback and applied to other firms in the city. Does it make sense to call them to let them know that another firm is willing to split the cost? The other firms haven't really had much movement as far as I can tell outside of rejections, and if I'm actually lucky enough to get another callback, it'd be a waste of money to be flown out twice.

bdubs
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby bdubs » Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:24 pm

acrossthelake wrote:I'm being flown out for a callback and applied to other firms in the city. Does it make sense to call them to let them know that another firm is willing to split the cost? The other firms haven't really had much movement as far as I can tell outside of rejections, and if I'm actually lucky enough to get another callback, it'd be a waste of money to be flown out twice.


I don't know that I would phrase it as a cost splitting thing, but I would definitely let the other firms know you will be in town for an interview with firm X. They know the NALP deal with cost splitting already.

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acrossthelake
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby acrossthelake » Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:28 pm

bdubs wrote:
acrossthelake wrote:I'm being flown out for a callback and applied to other firms in the city. Does it make sense to call them to let them know that another firm is willing to split the cost? The other firms haven't really had much movement as far as I can tell outside of rejections, and if I'm actually lucky enough to get another callback, it'd be a waste of money to be flown out twice.


I don't know that I would phrase it as a cost splitting thing, but I would definitely let the other firms know you will be in town for an interview with firm X. They know the NALP deal with cost splitting already.


Ahh ok. I wasn't sure how to word it. I didn't want to somehow make it so that one firm would pay, and the other would get to interview me for free, since that's not NALP policy, but you're right that they probably know that already so I could just phrase it as being in town.

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ilovesf
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Re: The Official 1L Summer Employment Thread - 2012 Edition

Postby ilovesf » Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:57 pm

Applied to like 12 PI orgs for the public interest fair here and only got 1 interview. I don't really know what went wrong since my whole resume screams PI.. oh well. My interview with the judge is this evening so now that really has to go well!




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