Any way to spin these ties to TX?

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Anonymous User
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Any way to spin these ties to TX?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Nov 20, 2011 10:50 pm

I'm a 1L at a lower T14 with interest in trying to land a 1L SA in TX, but my ties are pretty tenuous. I don't know what kind of questions are usually directed to people in this area, but any help I can get in spinning a story would be appreciated.

Texas connections:
I was born in Texas. Lived there with parents until I was ~1.5 years old.
I have a first cousin in one of the two major TX markets.

Problem is that I haven't been back to TX since age 3 or so. Also, my cousin and her kids are awesome, but she is quite a bit older than I am and we were never that close.

Is there a way to use these two tenuous connections to my advantage without sounding like a total idiot? Is there any harm in trying?

mrloblaw
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Re: Any way to spin these ties to TX?

Postby mrloblaw » Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:16 pm

Bring a copy of your birth certificate to interviews. Also, wear cowboy hat & boots.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: Any way to spin these ties to TX?

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm a 1L at a lower T14 with interest in trying to land a 1L SA in TX, but my ties are pretty tenuous. I don't know what kind of questions are usually directed to people in this area, but any help I can get in spinning a story would be appreciated.

Texas connections:
I was born in Texas. Lived there with parents until I was ~1.5 years old.
I have a first cousin in one of the two major TX markets.

Problem is that I haven't been back to TX since age 3 or so. Also, my cousin and her kids are awesome, but she is quite a bit older than I am and we were never that close.

Is there a way to use these two tenuous connections to my advantage without sounding like a total idiot? Is there any harm in trying?


Why do you want to come back to Texas? Do you want to work here after graduating, and, if so, why? Do you want to work in either Houston or Dallas, or only one of the two? Are you just trying to aim for a market hiring 1L's?

Anonymous User
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Re: Any way to spin these ties to TX?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Nov 20, 2011 11:32 pm

Richie Tenenbaum wrote:Why do you want to come back to Texas? Do you want to work here after graduating, and, if so, why? Do you want to work in either Houston or Dallas, or only one of the two? Are you just trying to aim for a market hiring 1L's?


OP here. A little of the former and a little of the latter. I am definitely considering TX because of its relative balance between cost and quality of life. On the other hand, if it weren't for a lack of 1L hiring in other markets I would probably be less interested in TX. Not clear on post graduation plans, probably depends on what other options are available. I'm not as geographically inflexible as law firms seem to want candidates to be.

Relatively indifferent between DFW and Houston, but it seems like Houston is where the jobs are.

Snooker
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Re: Any way to spin these ties to TX?

Postby Snooker » Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:48 am

Those ties are fairly weak, but perhaps a summer job in Texas will show interest.

If you say you were born in Texas, they're going to ask where you went to elementary school, middle school etc. I've been asked that dozens of times. Nobody was ever really interested in my choice of elementary school until I met with Texas Biglaw.

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Re: Any way to spin these ties to TX?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:04 am

Related question:

1L @ CCN. I did a summer internship two summers ago (during UG) in Dallas. I'm from the midwest and would really like to end up in TX. Obviously a 1L SA is tough to get regardless of where it is, but how strong of ties do I have? I do have one additional possible tie in that my SO will be applying to a phd program at UT-Austin, but I'm not sure that necessarily will help me.

Thoughts?

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ggocat
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Re: Any way to spin these ties to TX?

Postby ggocat » Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:27 am

In the cover letter: "I was born in Texas, and I have family in X city," or "... and I have family in Texas" if not applying in that city.

In the interview:
-- If they ask what family, you say something like, "Just extended family, but I can't wait to get back to Texas. There must be something in the water that makes people who leave Texas want to come back." (or something similarly corny that alludes to people who leave Texas wanting to come back).
-- If they ask how old you were when you left, you say something like, "I was just a little kid when we moved to X state, but I try to come back as often as possible." (Hopefully you've visited a few times recently that you can BS about).

Good luck.

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Re: Any way to spin these ties to TX?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:35 am

FWIW,
I had an interview with a firm in TX. I'm from Dallas, interviewed in Austin, currently attend UT.
At some point, 2 of my 5 interviewers asked me the question of why I wanted to work there. Both times they asked, I noticed that there was a suspicious hesitation in their voice. They knew I attended UT when they asked me and did not know I was from Dallas. It seemed that if UT was my only reason and I was from far away, they would have rejected me. I told them I was raised in Dallas and my parents were there. That answer immediately pacified their suspicions. It didn't seem like they would have accepted much less with all the other UT candidates to select from.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Any way to spin these ties to TX?

Postby DoubleChecks » Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:45 am

Partners have told me that they are very big even into hiring those not from TX as long as they show interest and come from a great law school (read: T14ish I presume)...and on some levels in TX biglaw I see that, w/ a few SAs from southern states but no ties to TX (the argument that the Houston legal economy is just booming relative to Georgia's seems very convincing for TX biglaw lol).

However, i too have met a lot of skepticism when it comes to answering why TX. i grew up in TX, my whole resume is TX, went to ugrad in TX, all my family and friends are in TX (for the most part), and this is my first time living out of the state in more than a decade...and STILL i got a lot of skepticism. worked out fine in that i convinced them, but they seemed to have come in assuming otherwise...so i guess good luck.

nevertheless, i will +1 ggocat in the thought that Texans believe TX is the best, so playing to that (i.e. why wouldnt one want to return to TX??? -- actually list a few things afterwards like the legal economy, COL, family-oriented, nicer people haha) will probably go over really well. i mean, as a Texan, that is certainly how i think :P

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Re: Any way to spin these ties to TX?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:16 pm

ggocat wrote:In the cover letter: "I was born in Texas, and I have family in X city," or "... and I have family in Texas" if not applying in that city.

In the interview:
-- If they ask what family, you say something like, "Just extended family, but I can't wait to get back to Texas. There must be something in the water that makes people who leave Texas want to come back." (or something similarly corny that alludes to people who leave Texas wanting to come back).
-- If they ask how old you were when you left, you say something like, "I was just a little kid when we moved to X state, but I try to come back as often as possible." (Hopefully you've visited a few times recently that you can BS about).

Good luck.



Thanks, this was helpful. I also e-mailed my cousin to see if she knew any attorneys that she could put me in touch with. I am going to send out applications and put in my best effort to convince firms that I am genuinely interested.

Unfortunately, I don't think any visits are in the cards at the moment. The earliest I could feasibly go would be over spring break, and that's probably too late for summer hiring.

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Re: Any way to spin these ties to TX?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:FWIW,
I had an interview with a firm in TX. I'm from Dallas, interviewed in Austin, currently attend UT.
At some point, 2 of my 5 interviewers asked me the question of why I wanted to work there. Both times they asked, I noticed that there was a suspicious hesitation in their voice. They knew I attended UT when they asked me and did not know I was from Dallas. It seemed that if UT was my only reason and I was from far away, they would have rejected me. I told them I was raised in Dallas and my parents were there. That answer immediately pacified their suspicions. It didn't seem like they would have accepted much less with all the other UT candidates to select from.


Similar situation. My resume screams DFW. But when I said McKinney, a few interviewers still held out on their suspicion--I was actually surprised that anyone could doubt I wanted to work in Dallas.

As for houston: I never got any suspicion about wanting to be in Houston, even though I don't have many ties. They only people that were close to suspicious were a few lit boutiques.

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burtonrideclub
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Re: Any way to spin these ties to TX?

Postby burtonrideclub » Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:07 pm

That will be tough. Firms aren't likely going to waste a 1l SA position on someone they suspect isn't set on staying in Texas. I'm from Texas, went to UG and law school in Texas, and STILL got questions because I lived overseas for a year after law school.

My advice to you is to say you are obsessed with the energy industry because of x, y and z, so Houston is the only place you could see yourself working.

Disclaimer: This will not work outside of Houston.

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ggocat
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Re: Any way to spin these ties to TX?

Postby ggocat » Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Unfortunately, I don't think any visits are in the cards at the moment. The earliest I could feasibly go would be over spring break, and that's probably too late for summer hiring.

I would strongly encourage you to set aside a week over the winter break that you could go to Texas (not too close to X-Mas or New Year's) so that you can say in your cover letter, "I will be available to interview in X city from ___ to ___ or at another date convenient to you." This signals to the firm that (1) you probably will be coming to Texas regardless to spend the break there, i.e. establishes a connection to Texas (even though it is an incorrect inference), and (2) they won't need to pay any expenses to bring you in for an interview.

Also, spending your 1L summer in Texas in any capacity (small firm, public interest, etc.) will help when 2L hiring comes around because (1) you establish a connection to TX on your resume, and (2) you will already be in TX and available for interviews during the summer.

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Re: Any way to spin these ties to TX?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 21, 2011 4:16 pm

ggocat wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Unfortunately, I don't think any visits are in the cards at the moment. The earliest I could feasibly go would be over spring break, and that's probably too late for summer hiring.

I would strongly encourage you to set aside a week over the winter break that you could go to Texas (not too close to X-Mas or New Year's) so that you can say in your cover letter, "I will be available to interview in X city from ___ to ___ or at another date convenient to you." This signals to the firm that (1) you probably will be coming to Texas regardless to spend the break there, i.e. establishes a connection to Texas (even though it is an incorrect inference), and (2) they won't need to pay any expenses to bring you in for an interview.

Also, spending your 1L summer in Texas in any capacity (small firm, public interest, etc.) will help when 2L hiring comes around because (1) you establish a connection to TX on your resume, and (2) you will already be in TX and available for interviews during the summer.


Winter break at my school is the 2 weeks around Christmas and New Year's. We go back to class directly afterwards. It is a crappy schedule, but there's nothing I can do about it.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Any way to spin these ties to TX?

Postby DoubleChecks » Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
ggocat wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Unfortunately, I don't think any visits are in the cards at the moment. The earliest I could feasibly go would be over spring break, and that's probably too late for summer hiring.

I would strongly encourage you to set aside a week over the winter break that you could go to Texas (not too close to X-Mas or New Year's) so that you can say in your cover letter, "I will be available to interview in X city from ___ to ___ or at another date convenient to you." This signals to the firm that (1) you probably will be coming to Texas regardless to spend the break there, i.e. establishes a connection to Texas (even though it is an incorrect inference), and (2) they won't need to pay any expenses to bring you in for an interview.

Also, spending your 1L summer in Texas in any capacity (small firm, public interest, etc.) will help when 2L hiring comes around because (1) you establish a connection to TX on your resume, and (2) you will already be in TX and available for interviews during the summer.


Winter break at my school is the 2 weeks around Christmas and New Year's. We go back to class directly afterwards. It is a crappy schedule, but there's nothing I can do about it.


Then go for a week around then. You do have 2 weeks. ggocat brings up a great point...being there in the winter makes them think you have ties AND they would save $$$.

bmontminy
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Re: Any way to spin these ties to TX?

Postby bmontminy » Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:44 pm

GTFO OF MY MARKET!!!!!!

Sincerely,
UT Law Students

:lol: :lol:

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Re: Any way to spin these ties to TX?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Related question:

1L @ CCN. I did a summer internship two summers ago (during UG) in Dallas. I'm from the midwest and would really like to end up in TX. Obviously a 1L SA is tough to get regardless of where it is, but how strong of ties do I have? I do have one additional possible tie in that my SO will be applying to a phd program at UT-Austin, but I'm not sure that necessarily will help me.

Thoughts?


TX Biglaw are prestige hungry--if you do well at CCN, they'll fawn all over you. Some of them are borderline nauseating, and bring in 1L's from "select" schools for a week or so to try to entice them back to TX as 2L and offer 2nd half clerkships to 2Ls from those schools for the same reason, even though they advertise at Texas law schools' OCIs that they have only 1st half programs.

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Re: Any way to spin these ties to TX?

Postby DoubleChecks » Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Related question:

1L @ CCN. I did a summer internship two summers ago (during UG) in Dallas. I'm from the midwest and would really like to end up in TX. Obviously a 1L SA is tough to get regardless of where it is, but how strong of ties do I have? I do have one additional possible tie in that my SO will be applying to a phd program at UT-Austin, but I'm not sure that necessarily will help me.

Thoughts?


TX Biglaw are prestige hungry--if you do well at CCN, they'll fawn all over you. Some of them are borderline nauseating, and bring in 1L's from "select" schools for a week or so to try to entice them back to TX as 2L and offer 2nd half clerkships to 2Ls from those schools for the same reason, even though they advertise at Texas law schools' OCIs that they have only 1st half programs.


Huh, which other firm besides Haynes and Boone does a 1 week teaser program?

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Re: Any way to spin these ties to TX?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:52 pm

DoubleChecks wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Related question:

1L @ CCN. I did a summer internship two summers ago (during UG) in Dallas. I'm from the midwest and would really like to end up in TX. Obviously a 1L SA is tough to get regardless of where it is, but how strong of ties do I have? I do have one additional possible tie in that my SO will be applying to a phd program at UT-Austin, but I'm not sure that necessarily will help me.

Thoughts?


TX Biglaw are prestige hungry--if you do well at CCN, they'll fawn all over you. Some of them are borderline nauseating, and bring in 1L's from "select" schools for a week or so to try to entice them back to TX as 2L and offer 2nd half clerkships to 2Ls from those schools for the same reason, even though they advertise at Texas law schools' OCIs that they have only 1st half programs.


Huh, which other firm besides Haynes and Boone does a 1 week teaser program?


should have been "one..."

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Re: Any way to spin these ties to TX?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Related question:

1L @ CCN. I did a summer internship two summers ago (during UG) in Dallas. I'm from the midwest and would really like to end up in TX. Obviously a 1L SA is tough to get regardless of where it is, but how strong of ties do I have? I do have one additional possible tie in that my SO will be applying to a phd program at UT-Austin, but I'm not sure that necessarily will help me.

Thoughts?


TX Biglaw are prestige hungry--if you do well at CCN, they'll fawn all over you. Some of them are borderline nauseating, and bring in 1L's from "select" schools for a week or so to try to entice them back to TX as 2L and offer 2nd half clerkships to 2Ls from those schools for the same reason, even though they advertise at Texas law schools' OCIs that they have only 1st half programs.

Thanks. Any thoughts on anything I should be doing my 1L summer to help my chances of getting a 2L SA position in TX?

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Any way to spin these ties to TX?

Postby DoubleChecks » Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Related question:

1L @ CCN. I did a summer internship two summers ago (during UG) in Dallas. I'm from the midwest and would really like to end up in TX. Obviously a 1L SA is tough to get regardless of where it is, but how strong of ties do I have? I do have one additional possible tie in that my SO will be applying to a phd program at UT-Austin, but I'm not sure that necessarily will help me.

Thoughts?


TX Biglaw are prestige hungry--if you do well at CCN, they'll fawn all over you. Some of them are borderline nauseating, and bring in 1L's from "select" schools for a week or so to try to entice them back to TX as 2L and offer 2nd half clerkships to 2Ls from those schools for the same reason, even though they advertise at Texas law schools' OCIs that they have only 1st half programs.

Thanks. Any thoughts on anything I should be doing my 1L summer to help my chances of getting a 2L SA position in TX?


imo, they are a lot less suspicious 2L summer mainly because 1L summer often have people who dont want to go to TX but want a paying biglaw job (a lot of biglaw in Houston now require you to agree to a few weeks during your 2L summer as well if you accept the 1L SA). they'll probably ask you the usual stuff, and if TX is the only market you're bidding on, then all the better. that'd show commitment to them in that it is the only market you're bidding haha.

besides that, ill echo the posters in here that said some 1L SA job in TX if you have weak ties should be helpful...esp. since it'd help you better articulate your reasons for wanting to be in the state post-grad.

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Re: Any way to spin these ties to TX?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Related question:

1L @ CCN. I did a summer internship two summers ago (during UG) in Dallas. I'm from the midwest and would really like to end up in TX. Obviously a 1L SA is tough to get regardless of where it is, but how strong of ties do I have? I do have one additional possible tie in that my SO will be applying to a phd program at UT-Austin, but I'm not sure that necessarily will help me.

Thoughts?


TX Biglaw are prestige hungry--if you do well at CCN, they'll fawn all over you. Some of them are borderline nauseating, and bring in 1L's from "select" schools for a week or so to try to entice them back to TX as 2L and offer 2nd half clerkships to 2Ls from those schools for the same reason, even though they advertise at Texas law schools' OCIs that they have only 1st half programs.

Thanks. Any thoughts on anything I should be doing my 1L summer to help my chances of getting a 2L SA position in TX?


Try to get something your 1L summer in Texas (contact alumni from your law school who are practicing in the city you want). If you can articulate the reasons you want to be in TX in your cover letter that will help, and getting advice from an alum can be valuable because they know your target market. 1L positions are difficult to get; but even if you can't get a biglaw SA for 1L, look at judicial internships (try judges who went to your law school or undergrad), and try for other positions like large businesses that have a corporate legal department, government, public interest (your school may have a stipend to help defray some of your costs), in the city you want a 2L SA position in. That is a great way to demonstrate desire to relocate to an area and you can network with attorneys in the city you want to practice in. Good luck.

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DallasCowboy
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Re: Any way to spin these ties to TX?

Postby DallasCowboy » Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:03 am

Anonymous User wrote:if you can't get a biglaw SA for 1L, look at judicial internships (try judges who went to your law school or undergrad), and try for other positions like large businesses that have a corporate legal department, government, public interest (your school may have a stipend to help defray some of your costs), in the city you want a 2L SA position in. That is a great way to demonstrate desire to relocate to an area and you can network with attorneys in the city you want to practice in. Good luck.


If you're not willing to do the above, I'd say your motivations are just to get paid as a 1L. I'm fairly certain that would be enough to convince people if they meet you in that setting rather than just at 2L OCI.

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mountaintime
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Re: Any way to spin these ties to TX?

Postby mountaintime » Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:06 am

ask your cousin if you can put her address on your resume. put that address and your school address on there.

"it's my family's address" / "my family lives here in tx; I want to be close to them"

a little sneaky, but :shrug:

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Re: Any way to spin these ties to TX?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:17 am

gets awkward during an actual interview though (from experience).




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