time limit: 7 months after graduation/ passing the bar?

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Anonymous User
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time limit: 7 months after graduation/ passing the bar?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:48 pm

what is the time limit after graduation beyond which one cannot likely find a meaningful legal job, assuming that one is unemployed upon graduation? (excluding those who landed legal jobs but are not entirely thrilled about them - those may or may not lateral to better jobs depending on what their first jobs are.)

I've heard people finding nice jobs before and a few months after the bar. The clock is ticking.

LawIdiot86
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Re: time limit: 7 months after graduation/ passing the bar?

Postby LawIdiot86 » Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:what is the time limit after graduation beyond which one cannot likely find a meaningful legal job, assuming that one is unemployed upon graduation? (excluding those who landed legal jobs but are not entirely thrilled about them - those may or may not lateral to better jobs depending on what their first jobs are.)

I've heard people finding nice jobs before and a few months after the bar. The clock is ticking.

I've heard it's closer to 9 months, but probably the 7-9 month range is good. Around that time, the people from the next class out start competing with you, and unlike you, they don't have a half year hole on their resume. You can explain the 3 months to study for the bar and can sort of justify the 3 months for the bar result, but beyond that, legal employers are going to wonder why you can't find a job.

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Re: time limit: 7 months after graduation/ passing the bar?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:31 pm

wow this is scary.
so, it's more like february becomes the nine-month out limit.

LawIdiot86
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Re: time limit: 7 months after graduation/ passing the bar?

Postby LawIdiot86 » Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:wow this is scary.
so, it's more like february becomes the nine-month out limit.

Think like an employer thinks. He has two resumes that have identical GPAs, school levels, and experience. One is from a 3L who has maintained or improved his GPA during his 3L year. The other is from someone who graduated 9 months ago and has a bar license to show for those 9 months. The employer knows 80-90% of people from decent law schools pass the exam the first time. Unless they just need a barred lawyer for doc review or are so small they are only hiring as needs demand, they are going wonder why the graduate hasn't gotten his act together to do something like free legal services, more internships, etc. Even moreso if your school is one of the many schools that offers a post-graduate stipend to any unemployed students to do pro bono legal for for 6-9 months after graduation.

I am a 3L in a JD/LLM program and I know a lot of people from last year who graduated and have not had an interview since graduation. They'll find jobs I'm sure, but I've been shocked at their lack of urgency since July to stay involved with networking and applying to jobs, even if they aren't ideal.

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Re: time limit: 7 months after graduation/ passing the bar?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:19 pm

does post-graduate fellowships sponsored by the school count as employment in employer's eyes? I doubt. they are just better than nothing.

what about obviously unpaid internships (like clerk for clerks at the courts of appeals?) do they really count?

When I say unemployed upon graduation, I mean to include these people with only unpaid internships.

LawIdiot86
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Re: time limit: 7 months after graduation/ passing the bar?

Postby LawIdiot86 » Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:does post-graduate fellowships sponsored by the school count as employment in employer's eyes? I doubt. they are just better than nothing.

what about obviously unpaid internships (like clerk for clerks at the courts of appeals?) do they really count?

When I say unemployed upon graduation, I mean to include these people with only unpaid internships.

If you get to after graduation without a job, the question then is how whatever you're doing helps the person you are trying to get a job with. Passing the bar counts because then you can do things on your own. If your post-graduate fellowship it working in the local courthouse handling DUIs/burglaries, then you would be in good shape if you are billing yourself to a local 20 person firm on how you already know how the local courts work. If your post-graduate fellowship is at some human rights group writing about the plight of refugees, that's nice, but very few places would find that applicable. Clerks for clerks is an interesting one I haven't heard of, but that might count if they are the right kind of clerk (trial, not appellate). Any employer knows you're unemployed, so the prestige of a courts of appeal isn't as key as the skills you bring to him.

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Re: time limit: 7 months after graduation/ passing the bar?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:05 pm

but the question is: unpaid internship=unemployment, right?

so if there is a fresh graduate with similar credentials and a graduate nine months out without any job other than an unpaid internship, will the latter be stigmatized and at a huge disadvantage even though he or she has gained some experience over the nine months?

LawIdiot86
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Re: time limit: 7 months after graduation/ passing the bar?

Postby LawIdiot86 » Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:but the question is: unpaid internship=unemployment, right?

so if there is a fresh graduate with similar credentials and a graduate nine months out without any job other than an unpaid internship, will the latter be stigmatized and at a huge disadvantage even though he or she has gained some experience over the nine months?

Well, yes, you are correct. I have a year and a half left before I face that fear and I still wake up screaming at night from it. The question is how to mitigate what is a very bad situation to be in. My way of going for an LL.M. is probably a bad way to do it.

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Re: time limit: 7 months after graduation/ passing the bar?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:16 pm

is this true????
So, unpaid internship - regardless of the amount of experience you gain - is bad?

however, the employers may not know they are unpaid, right? do we have an obligation to let them know that those are unpaid positions?

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Re: time limit: 7 months after graduation/ passing the bar?

Postby LawIdiot86 » Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:is this true????
So, unpaid internship - regardless of the amount of experience you gain - is bad?

however, the employers may not know they are unpaid, right? do we have an obligation to let them know that those are unpaid positions?

If your goal position is a paid position and your friends who were more successful at recruiting have paid positions, then I don't see how an unpaid internship after graduation, wouldn't be seen as bad. It would be better than a hole in the resume and maybe marginally better than doc review and non-legal work, but it still isn't a paid job. No, you don't have an obligation to tell them, but the can usually figure out (all SAUSAs are unpaid for example) and will ask if that is a factor in how they view your job.

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Re: time limit: 7 months after graduation/ passing the bar?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:35 pm

FWIW- my firm was looking at an applicant who had a great resume and just passed the bar. One of the big negatives was that nobody could understand why he didn't already have a job. We didn't hire him.

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Re: time limit: 7 months after graduation/ passing the bar?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:55 pm

op here: did you guys meet with him? did he at least appear normal?

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Re: time limit: 7 months after graduation/ passing the bar?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:56 pm

op agaiN:

so sad - so it's important to get a job. if you can get a decent law/law-related job, then this first job will only help you to get the second (and third ...) job .... and you can sort of build your experience and create a future.

no job upon graduation - no job forever.

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prezidentv8
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Re: time limit: 7 months after graduation/ passing the bar?

Postby prezidentv8 » Sun Nov 20, 2011 10:29 pm

Man, I am as unemployed and negative about the legal profession as any 3L I've met recently, but this thread is a straight up bummer.



So cheer up. It'll be aight, dawgs.

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Re: time limit: 7 months after graduation/ passing the bar?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:03 am

I encourage everyone without a job to stay proactive and take advantage of every relevant opportunity you can in the field that you want. As someone who could arguably say I deserved a six figure salary based on everything I did in law school, I was not going to let my pride stop me from pursing the area of work I wanted, even if it was A LOT salary than I wanted. I know that the benefits of being employed are greater than sitting around waiting for the next best thing to come around.

And if you are not lucky enough to get something paid, find SOMETHING to do that will provide you with something to fill the conversation with potential employers about your work experience after law school so you don't have to just blame your sitting at home on the economy. Even if it is that you volunteer two days a week at a legal place (or even a non-legal place, at least you are doing something meaningful), you can show you are proactive.




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