1L Judicial intern

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Anonymous User
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Re: 1L Judicial intern

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Nov 19, 2011 3:28 pm

District Court intern last summer.

FWIW, we got envelopes straight from the mail. They just had to be x-rayed. So use a professional envelope, and have nice, printed labels. The clerks will likely be scanning your materials, and they like to make fun of people who sloppily hand-write their envelopes (it happens more than you would expect). Be professional. It will be rather pricey, but that's what it takes.

I see no reason not to include a writing sample, assuming it is well-done and edited. They are going to get a ton of applications, and if you have everything they need, it is more likely that you will get a call. Having to call and ask for a writing sample, and matching it with the application is not very fun. They might have specific requirements, but if you don't send one they have to call you anyway. Again, I see no downside to including the writing sample, and potentially large benefits.

Timing isn't crucial, but the earlier the better, as with most things. Apply broadly, it is very much a lottery.

It was a great experience. I highly recommend it, especially if you are thinking about clerking, it is great to see what the experience is like.

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Re: 1L Judicial intern

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Nov 19, 2011 4:03 pm

blowhard wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
blowhard wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I have heard about people sending fancy folders in for clerkships.

Has anyone sent their materials in a folder with your school's name on it or anything else like that for a judicial internship?


No. First of all, the envelope won't matter at all. All mail to federal courthouses gets opened in the basement mail room and the envelope thrown away. I used fancy paper (buy a box of business paper...same as resume but cheaper) but in hindsight it absolutely didn't matter. The copy the judge had at my interview was copied onto regular anyhow.


I'm not talking about the envelope.

Putting your materials in a folder rather than just being loose in the envelope.


No. You should only be sending 2-3 pages so a normal envelope is perfectly fine.


This is the kind of folder I was talking about.
http://store.officeworld.com/ProductIma ... 70_1_2.JPG

03121202698008
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Re: 1L Judicial intern

Postby 03121202698008 » Sat Nov 19, 2011 4:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
This is the kind of folder I was talking about.
http://store.officeworld.com/ProductIma ... 70_1_2.JPG


I get what you're saying. I'd laugh at you and all of the clerks I know would to. They have their own folders in which they'll be placing all of your stuff. Sending your own comes of as desperate (will try anything) or just simply arrogant (my stuff is so important it must come wrapped in its own protective cover).

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Re: 1L Judicial intern

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Nov 19, 2011 4:20 pm

blowhard wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
This is the kind of folder I was talking about.
http://store.officeworld.com/ProductIma ... 70_1_2.JPG


I get what you're saying. I'd laugh at you and all of the clerks I know would to. They have their own folders in which they'll be placing all of your stuff. Sending your own comes of as desperate (will try anything) or just simply arrogant (my stuff is so important it must come wrapped in its own protective cover).


Yeah, I kind of figured that.

I don't think the ratio of people that would like it to those that would laugh would be safe enough to justify doing it...

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ph14
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Re: 1L Judicial intern

Postby ph14 » Sat Nov 19, 2011 4:28 pm

What kind of dress code is required as a 1L judicial intern?

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Grizz
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Re: 1L Judicial intern

Postby Grizz » Sat Nov 19, 2011 4:30 pm

ph14 wrote:What kind of dress code is required as a 1L judicial intern?

Ask your judge.

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ph14
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Re: 1L Judicial intern

Postby ph14 » Sat Nov 19, 2011 4:32 pm

Grizz wrote:
ph14 wrote:What kind of dress code is required as a 1L judicial intern?

Ask your judge.


Haven't applied yet. So it varies considerably by judge?

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Re: 1L Judicial intern

Postby 03121202698008 » Sat Nov 19, 2011 4:32 pm

Grizz wrote:
ph14 wrote:What kind of dress code is required as a 1L judicial intern?

Ask your judge.


This, but almost always a suit for courts...at least at the district level. Some CoA friends could wear jeans because they were holed up in a closet drafting memos. We saw the public and attended hearings so suits it was. When our judge was out, both we and the clerks wore business casual.

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monkey85
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Re: 1L Judicial intern

Postby monkey85 » Sat Nov 19, 2011 4:46 pm

ph14 wrote:What kind of dress code is required as a 1L judicial intern?


Business casual, unless we knew full day in court.
"Back-up" blazers and ties hanging in chambers.

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dood
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Re: 1L Judicial intern

Postby dood » Sat Nov 19, 2011 9:03 pm

monkey85 wrote:
ph14 wrote:What kind of dress code is required as a 1L judicial intern?


Business casual, unless we knew full day in court.
"Back-up" blazers and ties hanging in chambers.


same here fed CoA

Ofta3184
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Re: 1L Judicial intern

Postby Ofta3184 » Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:23 pm

Where's the best place to get 100+ labels done for the mailings?


Should i buy a printer/ink/label paper? (our LS has free printing-not for labels though haha)

imchuckbass58
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Re: 1L Judicial intern

Postby imchuckbass58 » Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:42 pm

I just sent a resume and cover letter and said I could provide a writing sample, references, and transcript upon request/when I received my grades. I ended up getting hired by a COA judge who didn't ask for any of the the other materials. After I accepted, I heard back from a bunch of other judges - about half requested grades, but virtually none (one, maybe, if I remember correctly) requested a writing sample.

Also, I'll echo what everyone said about applying early. I was hired before New Year's. Most judges hire in January, but if you want a shot at as many as possible, send your stuff in on December 1st. Most judges do this ad hoc - they'll just start interviewing kids that look promising as the apps come in and give offers on a rolling basis until someone accepts. It's not like there's a date when they consider all the apps.

minuit
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Re: 1L Judicial intern

Postby minuit » Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:46 pm

So, did you use the mailing address for the court and addressed it to the judge, or did you all find the judges' exact chambers? I've been able to tally up the general mailing addresses, but cannot find 95% of the judges' chambers.

imchuckbass58
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Re: 1L Judicial intern

Postby imchuckbass58 » Wed Nov 23, 2011 7:43 pm

minuit wrote:So, did you use the mailing address for the court and addressed it to the judge, or did you all find the judges' exact chambers? I've been able to tally up the general mailing addresses, but cannot find 95% of the judges' chambers.


My addresses were all something like:

Judge Name
Courthouse Name
Courthouse Address
Room XXXX
City, State, Zip

So I guess Room XXXX is the judge's chambers. I got this data from a database my law school's clerkship office provides. It's really handy, since you can download it directly into your mail merge. Check if your school does the same thing.

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Campagnolo
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Re: 1L Judicial intern

Postby Campagnolo » Wed Nov 23, 2011 7:55 pm

TheFutureLawyer wrote:Also interested.

ninja tag


A real ninja tag would be the anonymous quote!

minuit
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Re: 1L Judicial intern

Postby minuit » Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:56 pm

imchuckbass58 wrote:
minuit wrote:So, did you use the mailing address for the court and addressed it to the judge, or did you all find the judges' exact chambers? I've been able to tally up the general mailing addresses, but cannot find 95% of the judges' chambers.


My addresses were all something like:

Judge Name
Courthouse Name
Courthouse Address
Room XXXX
City, State, Zip

So I guess Room XXXX is the judge's chambers. I got this data from a database my law school's clerkship office provides. It's really handy, since you can download it directly into your mail merge. Check if your school does the same thing.


thanks! i will... not looking hopeful though :/

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Judge Philip Banks
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Re: 1L Judicial intern

Postby Judge Philip Banks » Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:54 pm

It's probably a good idea to use 9x12" envelopes so you don't have to fold your writing sample, resume, etc., right? Or do the chambers not care if the documents are folded into a normal letter envelope?

imchuckbass58
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Re: 1L Judicial intern

Postby imchuckbass58 » Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:22 am

minuit wrote:
thanks! i will... not looking hopeful though :/


I'm just guessing, but I bet if you just address it to the courthouse it will make its way to the judge's chambers anyways. Same as if you address something to an apartment building without putting the apartment number - it still makes it.

Judge Philip Banks wrote:It's probably a good idea to use 9x12" envelopes so you don't have to fold your writing sample, resume, etc., right? Or do the chambers not care if the documents are folded into a normal letter envelope?


I would say yes if you are including a writing sample. If it's just a resume and cover letter it's probably fine to fold.

keg411
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Re: 1L Judicial intern

Postby keg411 » Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:05 pm

Went to a T2, so my process was a little different since I was convinced I was going to be median (:lol: in retrospect). So here is some advice for T2 students:

1) When you make an appointment with career services, see if there is a part of Simplicity that has excel files of state court and local district judges. Ask them how to use this to set up a mail merge if you don't know how.

2) Don't worry about rushing. I would recommend sending State Trial Court apps when you are home for the holidays since a lot of those judges will likely interview you regardless of your grades and without your grades. I would wait on District Court and Supreme Court/Appellate Court until after grades. I mistakenly sent District Court apps pre-grades and only got an interview from a judge who e-mailed me and requested grades, but sent Supreme Court after grades and every Justice hiring was interested in interviewing me. The people who got District Court from my school waited for (at least a few) grades. Of course, this depends on when your school typically gets grades out. Ours were out by the middle of January.

3) I used fancy resume paper because it looked profession and because I didn't know any better. Don't know if it mattered or not.

4) I ended up getting an on-the-spot offer with the first State Supreme Court Justice I interviewed with, so I took that. I enjoyed it a ton, but it was definitely "different" (for instance, chambers was just in an office building). There was no need to wear or bring a suit, since we never went to Court, so it was just standard business casual (except the couple days where the Justice was not coming in and we were allowed to wear jeans). A pretty big bulk of cases are criminal appeals, so if you have any interest in State Criminal Appellate work, I'd recommend it. But it's much less "sell-able" to BigLaw than I assume District Court is because of the type of cases. That said, all of the clerks, including the clerks for the other Justices that we met, were going to BigLaw and all of the interns were "top of the class" people. There is a chance that I apply to clerk just because I had such a fun summer.

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Re: 1L Judicial intern

Postby 03121202698008 » Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:20 pm

keg411 wrote:I would wait on District Court and Supreme Court/Appellate Court until after grades. I mistakenly sent District Court apps pre-grades and only got an interview from a judge who e-mailed me and requested grades, but sent Supreme Court after grades and every Justice hiring was interested in interviewing me.


No, at the T14 at least. I mailed out 1 Dec, had 6-7 interviews scheduled for the frist week of Jan, and accepted on Jan 3. Most judges were full by mid-end of Jan. I knew people in the top 1/3 that had trouble finding a judge with positions once grades came out. None of the judges cared I didn't have grades. If had had them, I'd have had to show them so if they were bad it would have affected the process. Speaking to the career clerk over the summer...applying early is definitely a huge boost. The judges act to snap up the people they want. (E.g. I received an offer from my first judge within minutes of my interview ending...because they knew I had another interview scheduled later in the day. When every judge called to setup an interview, they would move stuff around to get me in before other interviewes.) Later in the process, they become much more selective as they wait to see if they can get better. Almost everyone I know had similar experiences.

I do know of a few judges that reserve a positon or two for lower-tier schools...those judges may wait to fill those positions until grades are out.

Edit: Just realized you said advice for T2s... I'd still be careful waiting.

Anonymous User
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Re: 1L Judicial intern

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:31 pm

blowhard wrote:
keg411 wrote:I would wait on District Court and Supreme Court/Appellate Court until after grades. I mistakenly sent District Court apps pre-grades and only got an interview from a judge who e-mailed me and requested grades, but sent Supreme Court after grades and every Justice hiring was interested in interviewing me.


No, at the T14 at least. I mailed out 1 Dec, had 6-7 interviews scheduled for the frist week of Jan, and accepted on Jan 3. Most judges were full by mid-end of Jan. I knew people in the top 1/3 that had trouble finding a judge with positions once grades came out. None of the judges cared I didn't have grades. If had had them, I'd have had to show them so if they were bad it would have affected the process. Speaking to the career clerk over the summer...applying early is definitely a huge boost. The judges act to snap up the people they want. (E.g. I received an offer from my first judge within minutes of my interview ending...because they knew I had another interview scheduled later in the day. When every judge called to setup an interview, they would move stuff around to get me in before other interviewes.) Later in the process, they become much more selective as they wait to see if they can get better. Almost everyone I know had similar experiences.

I do know of a few judges that reserve a positon or two for lower-tier schools...those judges may wait to fill those positions until grades are out.

Edit: Just realized you said advice for T2s... I'd still be careful waiting.


Really curious here about T2 Dec. 1 luck.

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cantaboot
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Re: 1L Judicial intern

Postby cantaboot » Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:47 pm

yeah these positions get filled quickly.
I remember I applied very late - in late december. when the judges got my letters it was already Jan something.

The COA judges hire late, in my experience. Never assume that you won't get a chance with them. Because a lot of people hold this presumption, your chances are greater than you think.

I had interviews with 2 COA judges in late Feb.

You will have a greater chance with COA judges if (1) you have top grades and/or (2) you know a second language in demand and it is useful in that particular circuit.

(It isn't that 1L internships will be that useful to helping you get a firm job or any prestigious job - a nice resume line though)

keg411
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Re: 1L Judicial intern

Postby keg411 » Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:15 pm

The people at my T2 I know who got Dist. Court all applied after grades. It is likely a state-by-state thing. My advice is for those targeting NJ. District Courts/State Supreme want top 5-10%.

Ofta3184
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Re: 1L Judicial intern

Postby Ofta3184 » Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:05 pm

How do yall guys suggest working with 1L SA interviews and interviews with federal judges?

Should you not even schedule interviews with judges (since they offer so quickly) if you happen to get a 1L SA interview?

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drmguy
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Re: 1L Judicial intern

Postby drmguy » Thu Nov 24, 2011 6:43 pm

The envelopes I bought came with "Resume Enclosed Do Not Bend" stickers. Should I use these?




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