3L, Hate Law, Now What?

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Anonymous User
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3L, Hate Law, Now What?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:28 am

Just curious. What should a 3L who just figured out that they really hate law do?

Machine Spirit
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Re: 3L, Hate Law, Now What?

Postby Machine Spirit » Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:37 am

Debt, school, job prospects, etc?

Anonymous User
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Re: 3L, Hate Law, Now What?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:40 am

Machine Spirit wrote:Debt, school, job prospects, etc?


100k+, T14, Shit, etc.

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BaiAilian2013
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Re: 3L, Hate Law, Now What?

Postby BaiAilian2013 » Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:13 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Machine Spirit wrote:Debt, school, job prospects, etc?


100k+, T14, Shit, etc.

So nothing lined up for after graduation?

Any prior careers or straight through undergrad?

seatown12
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Re: 3L, Hate Law, Now What?

Postby seatown12 » Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:27 am

how did you "just" figure this out?

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MrPapagiorgio
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Re: 3L, Hate Law, Now What?

Postby MrPapagiorgio » Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:31 am

seatown12 wrote:how did you "just" figure this out?

+1.

Must have been those grueling 3L classes.

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thexfactor
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Re: 3L, Hate Law, Now What?

Postby thexfactor » Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:47 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7OyKAFu50M&ob=av2e
Game over, Flip, Flip, Flip, Flip.....

on the other hand... at least you have a t14 degree. Sometimes non law employers might be impressed....
The situation could be much worse.

Anonymous User
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Re: 3L, Hate Law, Now What?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:35 pm

BaiAilian2013 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Machine Spirit wrote:Debt, school, job prospects, etc?


100k+, T14, Shit, etc.

So nothing lined up for after graduation?

Any prior careers or straight through undergrad?


Nothing lined up, although there are a few semi-promising apps out for legal jobs. Went straight through so about the only "experience" I have outside of law is in food service. Qualification wise, my grades are decent (read: vaguely in the middle of the class somewhere), with some really high ones and some low ones too, and something of a vaguely downward trend on the transcript. Mostly business/transactional type coursework.

Also, I'm flexible on the type of job I end up with in the short term, but given the market you obviously kind of have to be. Of course, I don't want to be in law for more than a couple years if at all possible.


seatown12 wrote:how did you "just" figure this out?


Generally speaking, I actually enjoyed law school through my 1L year, but since then I've progressively gotten more and more bored with the material and the people. At this point, I pretty much hate/strongly dislike most of what I do on a day to day basis, and am basically unable to pay attention in class. So this was not a sudden epiphany or anything, but it's been building and frankly I didn't quite have the balls to admit to myself earlier that this career wasn't going to be the right fit. So now, putting in extra hours trying to get jobs that I don't actually want doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. Hence the "Now What?". Lookin' for ideas, folks.

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20130312
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Re: 3L, Hate Law, Now What?

Postby 20130312 » Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:45 pm

thexfactor wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7OyKAFu50M&ob=av2e
Game over, Flip, Flip, Flip, Flip.....

on the other hand... at least you have a t14 degree. Sometimes non law employers might be impressed....
The situation could be much worse.


Ha, doubtful. For many businesses, a useless J.D. from a prestigious university just means they have to pay you more for no reason. Leave it off your resume!

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A'nold
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Re: 3L, Hate Law, Now What?

Postby A'nold » Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
BaiAilian2013 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Machine Spirit wrote:Debt, school, job prospects, etc?


100k+, T14, Shit, etc.

So nothing lined up for after graduation?

Any prior careers or straight through undergrad?


Nothing lined up, although there are a few semi-promising apps out for legal jobs. Went straight through so about the only "experience" I have outside of law is in food service. Qualification wise, my grades are decent (read: vaguely in the middle of the class somewhere), with some really high ones and some low ones too, and something of a vaguely downward trend on the transcript. Mostly business/transactional type coursework.

Also, I'm flexible on the type of job I end up with in the short term, but given the market you obviously kind of have to be. Of course, I don't want to be in law for more than a couple years if at all possible.


seatown12 wrote:how did you "just" figure this out?


Generally speaking, I actually enjoyed law school through my 1L year, but since then I've progressively gotten more and more bored with the material and the people. At this point, I pretty much hate/strongly dislike most of what I do on a day to day basis, and am basically unable to pay attention in class. So this was not a sudden epiphany or anything, but it's been building and frankly I didn't quite have the balls to admit to myself earlier that this career wasn't going to be the right fit. So now, putting in extra hours trying to get jobs that I don't actually want doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. Hence the "Now What?". Lookin' for ideas, folks.


I can almost guarantee you that you do not hate "the law" the way you think you do. 1) You are sick of school and very bored. I am a 3L and I am lacking motivation in the worst way possible right now. It is likely worse for you b/c you've never been out in the real world and have been in school your entire life. 2) You have not had a career and the grass looks greener and more interesting for many other careers right now. It is not. 3) You don't have a job lined up, which is depressing and you likely (though I don't know for sure) were hoping for a great paying job upon graduation and now you're facing hard work to get it which seems like an incredible hassle for a job that pays 1/3 of what you thought you'd be making.

I think if you honestly assess your situation, you will find my comments to be true. Mostly all of us on here that worked a lot b/f law school will tell you, most careers are even more boring/pay less long term than being a lawyer. This is especially true if you have a liberal arts degree. If you leave, you will likely get a job temping in an office for $12 an hour. You will regret not stepping up and toughing it out.

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vanwinkle
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Re: 3L, Hate Law, Now What?

Postby vanwinkle » Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Generally speaking, I actually enjoyed law school through my 1L year, but since then I've progressively gotten more and more bored with the material and the people. At this point, I pretty much hate/strongly dislike most of what I do on a day to day basis, and am basically unable to pay attention in class. So this was not a sudden epiphany or anything, but it's been building and frankly I didn't quite have the balls to admit to myself earlier that this career wasn't going to be the right fit. So now, putting in extra hours trying to get jobs that I don't actually want doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. Hence the "Now What?". Lookin' for ideas, folks.

This sounds like 3L burnout. Honestly, law school classes get boring after a while, and they do ultimately feel boring and repetitive because they largely are, but they're not the same thing as actually practicing law. I've killed time by doing a number of internships and clinics, which has given me a lot of exposure to the actual practice of law, and it doesn't resemble classes at all. I'm fed up with classes at this point myself, but I keep telling myself I have to get through it to get to the job, which (unlike my classes) I actually look forward to.

So here's my question: Do you actually hate the law, or just law school?

CanadianWolf
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Re: 3L, Hate Law, Now What?

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:41 pm

Law school should be two years of classes followed by a year of internship work. OP, law school is not the practice of law.

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A'nold
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Re: 3L, Hate Law, Now What?

Postby A'nold » Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:45 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Law school should be two years of classes followed by a year of internship work.

I was just explaining this to someone this last night, weirdly enough.

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Re: 3L, Hate Law, Now What?

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:47 pm

Apparently, I listen well. :D

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TommyK
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Re: 3L, Hate Law, Now What?

Postby TommyK » Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:51 pm

InGoodFaith wrote:Ha, doubtful. For many businesses, a useless J.D. from a prestigious university just means they have to pay you more for no reason. Leave it off your resume!


Just really, really terrible advice. If you think it's tough getting an employer to buy your commitment to x industry and desire to transition out of law, just try to explain a three-year gap. It would raise way more red flags.

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20130312
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Re: 3L, Hate Law, Now What?

Postby 20130312 » Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:56 pm

TommyK wrote:
InGoodFaith wrote:Ha, doubtful. For many businesses, a useless J.D. from a prestigious university just means they have to pay you more for no reason. Leave it off your resume!


Just really, really terrible advice. If you think it's tough getting an employer to buy your commitment to x industry and desire to transition out of law, just try to explain a three-year gap. It would raise way more red flags.


I recommend reading this blog by a guy who went to law school, graduated, and went into a non-J.D. profession. He will be more than happy to explain his experience if you email him. Long story short: it is incredibly difficult to convince a company that they aren't just a fallback option to your failed legal career.

Also, this is his personal blog, so you may encounter many pictures of his dog before coming across a useful post:

http://thejerkstore.tumblr.com

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A'nold
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Re: 3L, Hate Law, Now What?

Postby A'nold » Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:01 pm

InGoodFaith wrote:
TommyK wrote:
InGoodFaith wrote:Ha, doubtful. For many businesses, a useless J.D. from a prestigious university just means they have to pay you more for no reason. Leave it off your resume!


Just really, really terrible advice. If you think it's tough getting an employer to buy your commitment to x industry and desire to transition out of law, just try to explain a three-year gap. It would raise way more red flags.


I recommend reading this blog by a guy who went to law school, graduated, and went into a non-J.D. profession. He will be more than happy to explain his experience if you email him. Long story short: it is incredibly difficult to convince a company that they aren't just a fallback option to your failed legal career.

Also, this is his personal blog, so you may encounter many pictures of his dog before coming across a useful post:

http://thejerkstore.tumblr.com

I agree that you should base a life altering decision on anecdotal internet guy blogs! :roll:

Anonymous User
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Re: 3L, Hate Law, Now What?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:03 pm

A'nold wrote:I can almost guarantee you that you do not hate "the law" the way you think you do. 1) You are sick of school and very bored. I am a 3L and I am lacking motivation in the worst way possible right now. It is likely worse for you b/c you've never been out in the real world and have been in school your entire life. 2) You have not had a career and the grass looks greener and more interesting for many other careers right now. It is not. 3) You don't have a job lined up, which is depressing and you likely (though I don't know for sure) were hoping for a great paying job upon graduation and now you're facing hard work to get it which seems like an incredible hassle for a job that pays 1/3 of what you thought you'd be making.

I think if you honestly assess your situation, you will find my comments to be true. Mostly all of us on here that worked a lot b/f law school will tell you, most careers are even more boring/pay less long term than being a lawyer. This is especially true if you have a liberal arts degree. If you leave, you will likely get a job temping in an office for $12 an hour. You will regret not stepping up and toughing it out.


As much as there's something to what you're saying - and there is, because I'm definitely burned out too - I'm pretty sure I hate law. I can't stand the people generally, I immediately cringe when somebody starts talking about any legal issue/news/idea, and I don't think I would like to be behind a computer screen for 50-70 hours a week making less money than my friends who work in IT, law enforcement, HR, food service, accounting, etc. I just took the cop test, and am pretty strongly considering that as an option - by far the most pay of any job I've applied to recently, much more variety in the work on a day to day basis, you get to work outside, and you actually get to help people. Seems like a much more rewarding path in more than one way.

vanwinkle wrote:I've killed time by doing a number of internships and clinics, which has given me a lot of exposure to the actual practice of law, and it doesn't resemble classes at all. I'm fed up with classes at this point myself, but I keep telling myself I have to get through it to get to the job, which (unlike my classes) I actually look forward to.

So here's my question: Do you actually hate the law, or just law school?


We'll find out. Next semester I don't have any classes. Working for a federal agency instead.

I also thought my job last summer was decent too, although I truly do not enjoy working in an office. I think I was born to be a construction worker or something but was too dumb to figure that out earlier.

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20130312
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Re: 3L, Hate Law, Now What?

Postby 20130312 » Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:10 pm

A'nold wrote:
InGoodFaith wrote:
TommyK wrote:
InGoodFaith wrote:Ha, doubtful. For many businesses, a useless J.D. from a prestigious university just means they have to pay you more for no reason. Leave it off your resume!


Just really, really terrible advice. If you think it's tough getting an employer to buy your commitment to x industry and desire to transition out of law, just try to explain a three-year gap. It would raise way more red flags.


I recommend reading this blog by a guy who went to law school, graduated, and went into a non-J.D. profession. He will be more than happy to explain his experience if you email him. Long story short: it is incredibly difficult to convince a company that they aren't just a fallback option to your failed legal career.

Also, this is his personal blog, so you may encounter many pictures of his dog before coming across a useful post:

http://thejerkstore.tumblr.com

I agree that you should base a life altering decision on anecdotal internet guy blogs! :roll:


I had a similar reverse experience. As a business school student applying to finance positions, I left mock trial on my resume due to my leadership experience there. However, they quickly picked up on the fact that I I could potentially go to law school. This hurt me in interviews. So I left it off, and got a job that way.

Just saying, it's a rough market out there and not just for law students/grads. You want to appear fully committed to whatever industry you are actually interested in.

seatown12
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Re: 3L, Hate Law, Now What?

Postby seatown12 » Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I think I was born to be a construction worker or something but was too dumb to figure that out earlier.

Lol, ok Peter Gibbons. Give that a try for a while.

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A'nold
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Re: 3L, Hate Law, Now What?

Postby A'nold » Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:26 pm

When you say things like "my friends are all HR reps, teachers, cops, etc. and they all will make more money than me" it is obvious that you are trying to convince yourself of something or have not given this enough thought. Ten years from now, there is no way a teacher or even a cop will be making more money than you if you start in small law and either lateral to better jobs or stay at the same firm. This is a scamblogger premise and is complete propaganda in the vast majority of situations. If you want to be a cop or teacher, great for you. Do it then. But don't do so by buying into scamblogger hyperbole and delusional arguments.

Anonymous User
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Re: 3L, Hate Law, Now What?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:27 pm

seatown12 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I think I was born to be a construction worker or something but was too dumb to figure that out earlier.

Lol, ok Peter Gibbons. Give that a try for a while.


Assuming that's an Office Space reference. Thanks for the unhelpful snark. I was just pointing out that I don't seem to be a fan of working at a desk.

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20130312
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Re: 3L, Hate Law, Now What?

Postby 20130312 » Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
seatown12 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I think I was born to be a construction worker or something but was too dumb to figure that out earlier.

Lol, ok Peter Gibbons. Give that a try for a while.


Assuming that's an Office Space reference. Thanks for the unhelpful snark. I was just pointing out that I don't seem to be a fan of working at a desk.


Pick one:

1) Money
2) Enjoying life

Anonymous User
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Re: 3L, Hate Law, Now What?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:28 pm

A'nold wrote:When you say things like "my friends are all HR reps, teachers, cops, etc. and they all will make more money than me" it is obvious that you are trying to convince yourself of something or have not given this enough thought. Ten years from now, there is no way a teacher or even a cop will be making more money than you if you start in small law and either lateral to better jobs or stay at the same firm. This is a scamblogger premise and is complete propaganda in the vast majority of situations. If you want to be a cop or teacher, great for you. Do it then. But don't do so by buying into scamblogger hyperbole and delusional arguments.


Oh no, don't misunderstand me -- I'm not talking about the long term. I'm talking about right now. I don't want to be a lawyer five years from now if I can avoid it, so short term money is what matters to me.

Anonymous User
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Re: 3L, Hate Law, Now What?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:30 pm

InGoodFaith wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
seatown12 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I think I was born to be a construction worker or something but was too dumb to figure that out earlier.

Lol, ok Peter Gibbons. Give that a try for a while.


Assuming that's an Office Space reference. Thanks for the unhelpful snark. I was just pointing out that I don't seem to be a fan of working at a desk.


Pick one:

1) Money
2) Enjoying life



I'm going to cheat here.

Short-term - money. Pay off the loans ASAP and never go anywhere near a courtroom or law office again.
Long term - enjoying life.




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