C & F disclosure

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Anonymous User
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C & F disclosure

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:06 pm

I have a question concerning whether I need to disclose the fact that I interviewed with the police about 5 years ago in a foreign country.

This is the story:

A co-worker of mine falsely accused me of doing something illegal. She went all the way to the police and accused me without giving any evidence. The police did not arrest me. Because the woman mentioned my name outrageously - the police called me and asked me to file a report. They said they were convinced that I did not do it but had to ask me because my name was mentioned. After filing the report, they did not pursue the matter further and the file, as far as I heard, was closed immediately.

A few months later I left the work place and began thinking of law school.

There were no formal charges, and not even a legal claim could be made at all. The whole thing was nonsense.

I did not say anything at all in my law school application. Such an issue did not even come up because the applications only ask about formal charges, expunged or not.

Do I need to disclose? Not only was the court system not involved but I did not even have the file number/ case number.

I am not afraid of letting the admission people know - I just do not want to delay my admission to the bar and wonder if I should even bother putting it down on my application.

lawschoolgrapedme
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Re: C & F disclosure

Postby lawschoolgrapedme » Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:29 pm

dont disclose - no need to.

1 - different country
2 - no charges
3 - no formal proceeding
4 - no arrest

TLS tends to be very pro-disclosure, and while that certainly is not a bad thing, it is not always necessary.

03121202698008
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Re: C & F disclosure

Postby 03121202698008 » Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:31 pm

This was not an arrest or a charge. Don't disclose. Cops make lots and lots of formal interviews.

Anonymous User
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Re: C & F disclosure

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:33 pm

thank you so much.

I was inclined to disclose it ...
because I believe that it won't do me any real harm.

However, the whole thing was a very unhappy experience - although it led me to view the police and the justice system a lot more positively.

Does the fact that it happened in a foreign country really make a difference? I thought the bar people might want to dig into the personal histories of international graduates.

03121202698008
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Re: C & F disclosure

Postby 03121202698008 » Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:40 pm

.
Last edited by 03121202698008 on Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
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Re: C & F disclosure

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:41 pm

blowhard wrote:This was not an arrest or a charge. Don't disclose. Cops make lots and lots of formal interviews.


now I remember that the cop actually comforted me and said "don't tell others about this interview- actually we've interviewed not only you but some others..."

What troubled me was that the crazy bitch targeted me in her accusation. So I wonder if I had become the "object of investigation" like my bar application says.

blowhard:
what if for a moment I was a "suspect" in the cop's mind?

BeautifulSW
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Re: C & F disclosure

Postby BeautifulSW » Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:44 pm

No harm in disclosing, of course, but I don't think I'd bother. The Bar authorities do not ask for a recounting of every interaction the applicant has ever had with law enforcement. If it really worries you, send them a note telling about the incident and explain that you don't know whether it should be disclosed or not. As you tell it, there's nothing about the story that would reflect badly on you.

Now, if it was the East German Stasi that you fled the country from, getting over the Wall just ahead of their flashing muzzles and glittering bayonets, well, remember to copyright the letter! We'll get some Hollywood glamor boy/girl to play you in the movie. :mrgreen:
Last edited by BeautifulSW on Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

03121202698008
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Re: C & F disclosure

Postby 03121202698008 » Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
blowhard wrote:This was not an arrest or a charge. Don't disclose. Cops make lots and lots of formal interviews.


now I remember that the cop actually comforted me and said "don't tell others about this
interview- actually we've interviewed not only you but some others..."

What troubled me was that the crazy bitch targeted me in her accusation. So I wonder if I had become the "object of investigation" like my bar application says.

blowhard:
what if for a moment I was a "suspect" in the cop's mind?


This starts to get into semantics. If it says object of investigation, I'd probably disclose to be safe. If you do, id just include that you're not positive it meets the definition, you gave a statement, and they did not pursue. Object is way different than suspect. Suspect implies I think you broke a law and I'm gathering evidence. Object...I may not even be sure a law was broken or that youre the right person.

It won't hurt.

Edit: I'm not clear on the details of the charge...but if you were mentioned as part of some larger investigation...I'd just say you were interviewed as part of a larger investigation but after your statement not charges were filed...but you're not sure if that meets the definition of a charge.

You can also call the state bar and ask them if this would meet the definition...which is probably TCR.

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Re: C & F disclosure

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:52 pm

I find this very silly though.

Object of investigation may mean anyone.

The cop was joking: well, why did this woman hate you? well, {name} or {name} may well be the guilty one(s).

03121202698008
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Re: C & F disclosure

Postby 03121202698008 » Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:58 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I find this very silly though.

Object of investigation may mean anyone.

The cop was joking: well, why did this woman hate you? well, {name} or {name} may well be the guilty one(s).


Yep, but that may be what they are looking for. If they interviewed you in connection with an investigation where your name was mentioned...sounds like an object to me...

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Re: C & F disclosure

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:32 pm

As somebody who has caused a lot of trouble in his or her life time, I've spent a lot of time looking into this. My best advice is to pick a state you are likely to take the bar in and read the character and fitness application. The questions aren't a secret, and you only have to answer the ones they ask. They aren't going to drag you before an inquisitor and ask if you have ever had impure thoughts.

The odds of a C&F application encompassing the conduct you described are zilch. And there's no "disclose v. not disclose" debate at that point - they don't want you mea culpa-ing about shit they didn't even ask about.

"DEAR C&F I KNOW YOU DIDN'T ASK BUT ONE TIME I CHEATED ON A GIRLFRIEND PLEASE LET ME PRACTICE LAW I PROMISED I LEARNED MY LESSON"

No no no.

Read them applications.

Here is the relevant portion from New York State:

Have you ever, either as an adult or a juvenile, been cited, arrested, taken into custody, charged with, indicted, convicted or tried for, or pleaded guilty to, the commission of any felony or misdemeanor or the violation of any law, except minor parking violations, or been the subject of any juvenile delinquency or youthful offender proceeding?


It doesn't take somebody with three years of legal training to realize that OP's story would not trigger a "yes" answer to that question, and there would be no "well maybe you should disclose anyway" about it - the answer is straight up no. There's no place on the application for airing dirty laundry just in case. The character and fitness committees do not sell indulgences.

03121202698008
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Re: C & F disclosure

Postby 03121202698008 » Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:As somebody who has caused a lot of trouble in his or her life time, I've spent a lot of time looking into this. My best advice is to pick a state you are likely to take the bar in and read the character and fitness application. The questions aren't a secret, and you only have to answer the ones they ask. They aren't going to drag you before an inquisitor and ask if you have ever had impure thoughts.

The odds of a C&F application encompassing the conduct you described are zilch. And there's no "disclose v. not disclose" debate at that point - they don't want you mea culpa-ing about shit they didn't even ask about.

"DEAR C&F I KNOW YOU DIDN'T ASK BUT ONE TIME I CHEATED ON A GIRLFRIEND PLEASE LET ME PRACTICE LAW I PROMISED I LEARNED MY LESSON"

No no no.

Read them applications.

Here is the relevant portion from New York State:

Have you ever, either as an adult or a juvenile, been cited, arrested, taken into custody, charged with, indicted, convicted or tried for, or pleaded guilty to, the commission of any felony or misdemeanor or the violation of any law, except minor parking violations, or been the subject of any juvenile delinquency or youthful offender proceeding?


It doesn't take somebody with three years of legal training to realize that OP's story would not trigger a "yes" answer to that question, and there would be no "well maybe you should disclose anyway" about it - the answer is straight up no. There's no place on the application for airing dirty laundry just in case. The character and fitness committees do not sell indulgences.


Except he later says his bar application uses the term "object of an investigation"

Anonymous User
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Re: C & F disclosure

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:39 pm

blowhard wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:As somebody who has caused a lot of trouble in his or her life time, I've spent a lot of time looking into this. My best advice is to pick a state you are likely to take the bar in and read the character and fitness application. The questions aren't a secret, and you only have to answer the ones they ask. They aren't going to drag you before an inquisitor and ask if you have ever had impure thoughts.

The odds of a C&F application encompassing the conduct you described are zilch. And there's no "disclose v. not disclose" debate at that point - they don't want you mea culpa-ing about shit they didn't even ask about.

"DEAR C&F I KNOW YOU DIDN'T ASK BUT ONE TIME I CHEATED ON A GIRLFRIEND PLEASE LET ME PRACTICE LAW I PROMISED I LEARNED MY LESSON"

No no no.

Read them applications.

Here is the relevant portion from New York State:

Have you ever, either as an adult or a juvenile, been cited, arrested, taken into custody, charged with, indicted, convicted or tried for, or pleaded guilty to, the commission of any felony or misdemeanor or the violation of any law, except minor parking violations, or been the subject of any juvenile delinquency or youthful offender proceeding?


It doesn't take somebody with three years of legal training to realize that OP's story would not trigger a "yes" answer to that question, and there would be no "well maybe you should disclose anyway" about it - the answer is straight up no. There's no place on the application for airing dirty laundry just in case. The character and fitness committees do not sell indulgences.


Except he later says his bar application uses the term "object of an investigation"


Missed that. My bad for skimming.

Anonymous User
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Re: C & F disclosure

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:39 pm

op there: :cry:

concurrent fork
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Re: C & F disclosure

Postby concurrent fork » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:So I wonder if I had become the "object of investigation" like my bar application says.

Some states ask broad questions which require you to disclose random shit like this. Play it safe and disclose. From the facts you gave it sounds like it was at least arguably an investigation, and you might be lying if you answered "no."

Anonymous User
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Re: C & F disclosure

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:48 pm

it is the mass bar. the question is phrased as follows:

"have you ever been charged with or been the subject of any investigation for .....? if yes, state dates, courts, details and results."

I thought it was "object" ....

I don't even remember exact dates. There were, of course, no courts, and no attorneys were involved.

edit:
I think subject of investigation = suspect.

However, the police did not arrest me. There was no evidence or probable cause at all. He merely called me for an interview.

Then again, I cannot guarantee to anyone that I was not considered a 'suspect' at any point.

Anonymous User
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Re: C & F disclosure

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:03 pm

OP here:

I actually sent an inquiry to the email listed on the website of the bar association. They got back to me and said I would not have to disclose that in my application.

thanks everyone!

This is such a relief - although I am sure that I would not be in trouble if I disclosed.

The whole thing makes me wonder - sometimes we might be reading too much into the words. The logic is simple and reasonable: no formal charges, no disclosure.




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