OCI WE

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
funstuff
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 2:34 pm

OCI WE

Postby funstuff » Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:48 pm

What kind of work experience is valuable come OCI? Would being a high school coach or working at a restaurant help whatsoever versus k-jd interviewees?

User avatar
vanwinkle
Posts: 9740
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:02 am

Re: OCI WE

Postby vanwinkle » Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:58 pm

funstuff wrote:What kind of work experience is valuable come OCI? Would being a high school coach or working at a restaurant help whatsoever versus k-jd interviewees?

It would help more than having no WE at all.

lawschoolgrapedme
Posts: 205
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:12 pm

Re: OCI WE

Postby lawschoolgrapedme » Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:05 pm

most bumps for WE involve investment banking or some other type of financial or accounting background...also, some firms like paralegals or people who have seen the inside of a law firm.

food service wont help...weve all worked at subway and chili's and lets be honest.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273432
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: OCI WE

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:12 pm

Got a job with an IP firm due to WE & undergrad major. I didn't even do OCI - they asked for my resume during an on-campus presentation.

lawschoolgrapedme
Posts: 205
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:12 pm

Re: OCI WE

Postby lawschoolgrapedme » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Got a job with an IP firm due to WE & undergrad major. I didn't even do OCI - they asked for my resume during an on-campus presentation.


Agreed. IP is its own beast though. I guess my answer is more tailored for corp (which is my focus).

User avatar
Richie Tenenbaum
Posts: 2162
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 6:17 am

Re: OCI WE

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:56 pm

I think part of the advantage of having some w/e before law school is that you have a better opportunity to seem mature and more focused than a k-jd person. Sure, a elementary PE teacher may not have transferable skills (but who know how you coould spin it), but at least that person has been in the real world.

c3pO4
Posts: 835
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:34 pm

Re: OCI WE

Postby c3pO4 » Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:11 pm

Richie Tenenbaum wrote:I think part of the advantage of having some w/e before law school is that you have a better opportunity to seem mature and more focused than a k-jd person. Sure, a elementary PE teacher may not have transferable skills (but who know how you coould spin it), but at least that person has been in the real world.


CR. Usually people who even only work for 1 year have interviewed at least 1 person or have a good idea of how employers evaluate candidates (you see people get interviewed, hear reactions, etc.). This was really helpful in OCI interviews. Also, it's helpful to get a feel for workplace dynamics and how to deal with problems/challenges in a professional environment so you can relate to the interviewers. If you were client-side and ever worked with or observed lawyers, that can be really helpful as well.

03121202698008
Posts: 3002
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:07 am

Re: OCI WE

Postby 03121202698008 » Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:22 pm

Prior military played great if you want to take the long route.

Renzo
Posts: 4265
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:23 am

Re: OCI WE

Postby Renzo » Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:23 pm

lawschoolgrapedme wrote:most bumps for WE involve investment banking or some other type of financial or accounting background...also, some firms like paralegals or people who have seen the inside of a law firm.

food service wont help...weve all worked at subway and chili's and lets be honest.


This is a bit disingenuous. The work experience that helps is having a real, substantive, career-type job with responsibilities and such. It doesn't have to be at an investment bank.

Any work experience is better than none. If nothing else, it will take up white space on your resume. But the "work experience bump" (if you will) goes to people with work experience that is substantial enough to signal that you know how to have deadlines and a boss, and manage your career, and how to generally succeed at the things that make work suck.

User avatar
Blindmelon
Posts: 1708
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:13 am

Re: OCI WE

Postby Blindmelon » Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:20 am

Renzo wrote:
lawschoolgrapedme wrote:most bumps for WE involve investment banking or some other type of financial or accounting background...also, some firms like paralegals or people who have seen the inside of a law firm.

food service wont help...weve all worked at subway and chili's and lets be honest.


This is a bit disingenuous. The work experience that helps is having a real, substantive, career-type job with responsibilities and such. It doesn't have to be at an investment bank.

Any work experience is better than none. If nothing else, it will take up white space on your resume. But the "work experience bump" (if you will) goes to people with work experience that is substantial enough to signal that you know how to have deadlines and a boss, and manage your career, and how to generally succeed at the things that make work suck.


This. I don't think paralegals get a bump beyond the standard not being a K-JD boost. WE doesn't need to be financial or accounting at all, and I'm assuming that graped has a finance/accounting background.

keg411
Posts: 5935
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:10 pm

Re: OCI WE

Postby keg411 » Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:36 pm

I'm going to disagree and say that from my experience, the WE bump is not universal at all. In my own case, the firm that eventually hired me liked my WE, but very few other firms seemed to care (I'd also say 99% of my interviewers were K-JD). However, I digress in that I think my background would have played better if I went to a prestigious undergrad or something else prestigious in their background (i.e. TFA, Peace Corps, government fellowships, etc.). The people I know with prestigious backgrounds + WE did by far the best at OCI.

I've also seen WE actively hurt (though not in my case) for people who have very long-term significant public interest experience.

c3pO4
Posts: 835
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:34 pm

Re: OCI WE

Postby c3pO4 » Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:58 pm

keg411 wrote:I'm going to disagree and say that from my experience, the WE bump is not universal at all. In my own case, the firm that eventually hired me liked my WE, but very few other firms seemed to care (I'd also say 99% of my interviewers were K-JD). However, I digress in that I think my background would have played better if I went to a prestigious undergrad or something else prestigious in their background (i.e. TFA, Peace Corps, government fellowships, etc.). The people I know with prestigious backgrounds + WE did by far the best at OCI.

I've also seen WE actively hurt (though not in my case) for people who have very long-term significant public interest experience.


+1 prestigious undergrad. Law school can mask a TTT UG, but an Ivy UG + T30 school + decent WE + median grades = top half at t14

adonai
Posts: 1033
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:09 pm

Re: OCI WE

Postby adonai » Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:24 pm

keg411 wrote:I've also seen WE actively hurt (though not in my case) for people who have very long-term significant public interest experience.

Care to extrapolate? I just don't understand this logic. Are they just afraid that you'll run off after a couple of years? Cause PI places IMO give you significant experience and responsibility. I think you get to do real substantive work since most PI orgs are understaffed. How long is long term anyway?

03121202698008
Posts: 3002
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:07 am

Re: OCI WE

Postby 03121202698008 » Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:26 pm

c3pO4 wrote:
keg411 wrote:I'm going to disagree and say that from my experience, the WE bump is not universal at all. In my own case, the firm that eventually hired me liked my WE, but very few other firms seemed to care (I'd also say 99% of my interviewers were K-JD). However, I digress in that I think my background would have played better if I went to a prestigious undergrad or something else prestigious in their background (i.e. TFA, Peace Corps, government fellowships, etc.). The people I know with prestigious backgrounds + WE did by far the best at OCI.

I've also seen WE actively hurt (though not in my case) for people who have very long-term significant public interest experience.


+1 prestigious undergrad. Law school can mask a TTT UG, but an Ivy UG + T30 school + decent WE + median grades = top half at t14


This varies greatly by market and firm.

User avatar
IAFG
Posts: 6665
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:26 pm

Re: OCI WE

Postby IAFG » Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:40 pm

adonai wrote:
keg411 wrote:I've also seen WE actively hurt (though not in my case) for people who have very long-term significant public interest experience.

Care to extrapolate? I just don't understand this logic. Are they just afraid that you'll run off after a couple of years? Cause PI places IMO give you significant experience and responsibility. I think you get to do real substantive work since most PI orgs are understaffed. How long is long term anyway?

If you can spin it well, it won't hurt you (unless you're at a pre-select school). I mean, yes, the firm would probably prefer you were doing the work that their big institutional bank clients do, so in that sense former i-bankers and traders are probably going to out-perform you, but you should have expected that anyway.

User avatar
MrKappus
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:46 am

Re: OCI WE

Postby MrKappus » Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:35 pm

c3pO4 wrote:
keg411 wrote:I'm going to disagree and say that from my experience, the WE bump is not universal at all. In my own case, the firm that eventually hired me liked my WE, but very few other firms seemed to care (I'd also say 99% of my interviewers were K-JD). However, I digress in that I think my background would have played better if I went to a prestigious undergrad or something else prestigious in their background (i.e. TFA, Peace Corps, government fellowships, etc.). The people I know with prestigious backgrounds + WE did by far the best at OCI.

I've also seen WE actively hurt (though not in my case) for people who have very long-term significant public interest experience.


+1 prestigious undergrad. Law school can mask a TTT UG, but an Ivy UG + T30 school + decent WE + median grades = top half at t14


I found this to be so. Edit: except for the "median grades" part.
Last edited by MrKappus on Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

funstuff
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 2:34 pm

Re: OCI WE

Postby funstuff » Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:42 pm

Another question if y'all don't mind. I've heard that sales can be helpful for OCI. Does that just mean Sales at Verizon Wireless, sales ala Jim & Dwight in the Office, etc. or something else?

keg411
Posts: 5935
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:10 pm

Re: OCI WE

Postby keg411 » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:27 pm

IAFG wrote:
adonai wrote:
keg411 wrote:I've also seen WE actively hurt (though not in my case) for people who have very long-term significant public interest experience.

Care to extrapolate? I just don't understand this logic. Are they just afraid that you'll run off after a couple of years? Cause PI places IMO give you significant experience and responsibility. I think you get to do real substantive work since most PI orgs are understaffed. How long is long term anyway?

If you can spin it well, it won't hurt you (unless you're at a pre-select school). I mean, yes, the firm would probably prefer you were doing the work that their big institutional bank clients do, so in that sense former i-bankers and traders are probably going to out-perform you, but you should have expected that anyway.


Not at a pre-select school. Know someone who was dinged based on it, which is why I wrote what I did in the first place. It was ultimately a "fit" determination. Granted, it's certainly possible this person didn't spin it well (or didn't really want BigLaw), but there is a chance that BigLaw could be weary.

User avatar
monkey85
Posts: 394
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:07 pm

Re: OCI WE

Postby monkey85 » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:34 pm

c3pO4 wrote:+1 prestigious undergrad. Law school can mask a TTT UG, but an Ivy UG + T30 school + decent WE + median grades = top half at t14


I've never thought about it like that, but that equation makes a lot of sense at my school for the people that did well at OCI.

c3pO4
Posts: 835
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:34 pm

Re: OCI WE

Postby c3pO4 » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:39 pm

monkey85 wrote:
c3pO4 wrote:+1 prestigious undergrad. Law school can mask a TTT UG, but an Ivy UG + T30 school + decent WE + median grades = top half at t14


I've never thought about it like that, but that equation makes a lot of sense at my school for the people that did well at OCI.


It makes sense. If you are hiring someone and you have somebody who got strait A's at Moron State U and an A- average at a T30 school versus somebody who graduated from a top 5 UG with B's at the T30, there is no way you think the MSU kid is smarter---the difference between median and top 30% in 1L given randomness of grading and curves is MUCH smaller than the difference between matriculating at MSU and Harvard. MAYBE you think they worked harder in 1L, but if the Ivy UG kid has entry level F500 WE with proven track record, you know they can work hard. The MSU kid probably was a store manager at Blockbuster. So now you know they are smarter and they can work hard. Easy hire. The Ivy UG kid at a T30 = if this MSU kid went to T14 and got into top half.

mrloblaw
Posts: 534
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:00 pm

Re: OCI WE

Postby mrloblaw » Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:17 pm

c3pO4 wrote:
monkey85 wrote:
c3pO4 wrote:+1 prestigious undergrad. Law school can mask a TTT UG, but an Ivy UG + T30 school + decent WE + median grades = top half at t14


I've never thought about it like that, but that equation makes a lot of sense at my school for the people that did well at OCI.


It makes sense. If you are hiring someone and you have somebody who got strait A's at Moron State U and an A- average at a T30 school versus somebody who graduated from a top 5 UG with B's at the T30, there is no way you think the MSU kid is smarter---the difference between median and top 30% in 1L given randomness of grading and curves is MUCH smaller than the difference between matriculating at MSU and Harvard. MAYBE you think they worked harder in 1L, but if the Ivy UG kid has entry level F500 WE with proven track record, you know they can work hard. The MSU kid probably was a store manager at Blockbuster. So now you know they are smarter and they can work hard. Easy hire. The Ivy UG kid at a T30 = if this MSU kid went to T14 and got into top half.


This is exactly the call that every lawl and med school adcom makes on a daily basis (although the lawl schools are arguably doing it just to game USNWR).

c3pO4
Posts: 835
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:34 pm

Re: OCI WE

Postby c3pO4 » Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:20 pm

mrloblaw wrote:
c3pO4 wrote:
monkey85 wrote:
c3pO4 wrote:+1 prestigious undergrad. Law school can mask a TTT UG, but an Ivy UG + T30 school + decent WE + median grades = top half at t14


I've never thought about it like that, but that equation makes a lot of sense at my school for the people that did well at OCI.


It makes sense. If you are hiring someone and you have somebody who got strait A's at Moron State U and an A- average at a T30 school versus somebody who graduated from a top 5 UG with B's at the T30, there is no way you think the MSU kid is smarter---the difference between median and top 30% in 1L given randomness of grading and curves is MUCH smaller than the difference between matriculating at MSU and Harvard. MAYBE you think they worked harder in 1L, but if the Ivy UG kid has entry level F500 WE with proven track record, you know they can work hard. The MSU kid probably was a store manager at Blockbuster. So now you know they are smarter and they can work hard. Easy hire. The Ivy UG kid at a T30 = if this MSU kid went to T14 and got into top half.


This is exactly the call that every lawl and med school adcom makes on a daily basis (although the lawl schools are arguably doing it just to game USNWR).


Not sure I follow. The parallel is people who hire out of medschool, not lawl/medschool apps. In my hypo goth kids could have EQ UG gpas -- the question is about how employers view the combination of TTT UG + T14 LS and T5 UG + T30 LS.

mrloblaw
Posts: 534
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:00 pm

Re: OCI WE

Postby mrloblaw » Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:27 pm

c3pO4 wrote:
Not sure I follow. The parallel is people who hire out of medschool, not lawl/medschool apps. In my hypo goth kids could have EQ UG gpas -- the question is about how employers view the combination of TTT UG + T14 LS and T5 UG + T30 LS.


I guess I took the first sentence slightly out of context: it looked like you were doing offers as a function of UG, UG-GPA, and LS-GPA.

I guess I don't understand the fixation on ivies. I've met some pretty dumb kids who came out of Harvard and Princeton with solid grades in fluff majors.

c3pO4
Posts: 835
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:34 pm

Re: OCI WE

Postby c3pO4 » Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:31 pm

mrloblaw wrote:
c3pO4 wrote:
Not sure I follow. The parallel is people who hire out of medschool, not lawl/medschool apps. In my hypo goth kids could have EQ UG gpas -- the question is about how employers view the combination of TTT UG + T14 LS and T5 UG + T30 LS.


I guess I took the first sentence slightly out of context: it looked like you were doing offers as a function of UG, UG-GPA, and LS-GPA.

I guess I don't understand the fixation on ivies. I've met some pretty dumb kids who came out of Harvard and Princeton with solid grades in fluff majors.


They are more marketable on a firm bio, though. I'm not saying they are objectively smarter, just talking about chances of landing job in OCI.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273432
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: OCI WE

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:35 pm

at our T25, the EIC of the law review graduated summa cum laude from a third-tier state U
apparently she got excellent grades in her first year here (top 1 or 2)

what do you think? I do not want to believe that she is really the smartest person out there. There are probably a bunch of smarties there (good grades or just average grades). Aceing a law school exam =/= smart in every way.




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.