3L Public Defender Applications

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Scruffy_the_Janitor
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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Scruffy_the_Janitor » Fri Dec 12, 2014 1:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Scruffy_the_Janitor wrote::cry: Didn't see any offices I'm interviewing at mentioned. Speaking of which, did anyone else interview with New Hampshire? Thoughts?


I did my 2nd interview with NH back in August. IMO panels are always rough because they are designed to be. Everyone I have spoken to that works there voiced similar sentiments.


Wow, August? My panel was way later than that but that was because I did EJW. Was yours mostly hypo or why PD? I felt my hypo discussion was short and that just worries me a bit.

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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 12, 2014 8:25 pm

Pds offers are out and nhpd has made some offers, idk if all

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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Pds offers are out and nhpd has made some offers, idk if all


Did notifications go out via email? Any additional details would be great. I know NHPD doesn't hire that many, so they could probably tell everyone in one day.

More offers from Colorado came out today via email. Looks like the offers are starting to roll in and it's time to start refreshing my inbox like a crazy person.

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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Pds offers are out and nhpd has made some offers, idk if all


Did notifications go out via email? Any additional details would be great. I know NHPD doesn't hire that many, so they could probably tell everyone in one day.

More offers from Colorado came out today via email. Looks like the offers are starting to roll in and it's time to start refreshing my inbox like a crazy person.


For pds I'm sure they make phone calls,with follow up email..

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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 13, 2014 10:05 am

Scruffy_the_Janitor wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Scruffy_the_Janitor wrote::cry: Didn't see any offices I'm interviewing at mentioned. Speaking of which, did anyone else interview with New Hampshire? Thoughts?


I did my 2nd interview with NH back in August. IMO panels are always rough because they are designed to be. Everyone I have spoken to that works there voiced similar sentiments.


Wow, August? My panel was way later than that but that was because I did EJW. Was yours mostly hypo or why PD? I felt my hypo discussion was short and that just worries me a bit.



Mostly hypos. A lot of discussion on ethics and evidence.
I know NH also has a decently large pool (for the size of the state) of 2L summer interns that they interview before anyone else. So who really knows..

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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 13, 2014 6:22 pm

Ok has San Diego Fed Defenders made offers already? I'm really confused. What round are they on? I interviewed at EJW and never heard back. Are they making second round offer now? Have they already made staff attorney offers?

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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 13, 2014 6:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Ok has San Diego Fed Defenders made offers already? I'm really confused. What round are they on? I interviewed at EJW and never heard back. Are they making second round offer now? Have they already made staff attorney offers?


I was wondering about this as well. The application says it's open until October 31, 2014 or until filled. October 31st was quite a while ago, but the posting is still there, so it's not clear as to whether the posting is even open anymore (I just submitted an application a couple weeks ago, but haven't heard anything from them).

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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Dec 14, 2014 12:50 pm

Sometimes I wonder why I gave up firm jobs to pursue this route. The application process can be so demoralizing. I am a 3L at a T14 law school, in clinic, had trials already, between summers and semesters at law school I have worked at 4 PD offices, did mock trial, and nothing is working out for me.

I've practiced hypos with my clinic professor, have my why PD answer down, and don't consider myself to be awkward in interviews ... but I can't seem to get any constructive feedback about what I'm doing wrong aside from "oh, there are just so many qualified applicants ... its not a reflection on you, you'll land well somewhere else"

Like ugh. Someone PLEASE pay me 40k to do this work! I love it. I want to do it. I'm begging! lol


/end rant

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Tanicius
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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Tanicius » Sun Dec 14, 2014 1:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Sometimes I wonder why I gave up firm jobs to pursue this route. The application process can be so demoralizing. I am a 3L at a T14 law school, in clinic, had trials already, between summers and semesters at law school I have worked at 4 PD offices, did mock trial, and nothing is working out for me.

I've practiced hypos with my clinic professor, have my why PD answer down, and don't consider myself to be awkward in interviews ... but I can't seem to get any constructive feedback about what I'm doing wrong aside from "oh, there are just so many qualified applicants ... its not a reflection on you, you'll land well somewhere else"

Like ugh. Someone PLEASE pay me 40k to do this work! I love it. I want to do it. I'm begging! lol


/end rant


I'm sorry dude. You sound like a very qualified applicant. It's almost impossible to maintain perspective in situations like yours, but in a moment when the emotions fade, realize that nobody with your background will fall through the cracks forever. It may take some time, even past the bar exam, but you will land a job you love eventually.

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Scruffy_the_Janitor
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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Scruffy_the_Janitor » Sun Dec 14, 2014 3:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Sometimes I wonder why I gave up firm jobs to pursue this route. The application process can be so demoralizing. I am a 3L at a T14 law school, in clinic, had trials already, between summers and semesters at law school I have worked at 4 PD offices, did mock trial, and nothing is working out for me.

I've practiced hypos with my clinic professor, have my why PD answer down, and don't consider myself to be awkward in interviews ... but I can't seem to get any constructive feedback about what I'm doing wrong aside from "oh, there are just so many qualified applicants ... its not a reflection on you, you'll land well somewhere else"

Like ugh. Someone PLEASE pay me 40k to do this work! I love it. I want to do it. I'm begging! lol


/end rant


I sympathize because I'm in pretty much the same sitnation.It's hard to know what the recruiters are thinking.

/end rant

starrguy01
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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby starrguy01 » Mon Dec 15, 2014 2:22 pm

Has anyone called LAS for an update on when offers are going to be made? The last I heard end of December and end of january

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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 15, 2014 4:51 pm

starrguy01 wrote:Has anyone called LAS for an update on when offers are going to be made? The last I heard end of December and end of january


They still have to get through last round interviews with Toni..I don't think that has started yet

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anon sequitur
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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby anon sequitur » Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:25 pm

Kinda random, got an invite for Philadelphia PD, 1/2 panel interview. I haven't interviewed with them yet, no screener or anything. This is after they never got back to me at all about an EJW interview request two months, so figured that was a soft rejection. Anyone know what's up with their hiring? Do they not do multiple rounds or do they actually have multiple panels?

starrguy01
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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby starrguy01 » Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:26 pm

Good, I had my panel interview and I'm waiting to hear back about interviewing with Toni.

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FlanAl
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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby FlanAl » Mon Dec 15, 2014 9:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Sometimes I wonder why I gave up firm jobs to pursue this route. The application process can be so demoralizing. I am a 3L at a T14 law school, in clinic, had trials already, between summers and semesters at law school I have worked at 4 PD offices, did mock trial, and nothing is working out for me.

I've practiced hypos with my clinic professor, have my why PD answer down, and don't consider myself to be awkward in interviews ... but I can't seem to get any constructive feedback about what I'm doing wrong aside from "oh, there are just so many qualified applicants ... its not a reflection on you, you'll land well somewhere else"

Like ugh. Someone PLEASE pay me 40k to do this work! I love it. I want to do it. I'm begging! lol


/end rant


A) It's only December you have a LONG time until the hiring is done. Didn't brooklyn give offers in like July?

B) I can't give you any constructive feedback but I would note that an applicants overall personality is a factor that doesn't seem to get mentioned on here. Offices want to see right away that 12 random people would probably like you just by you being you. Obviously this isn't a deciding factor and I have no idea if it applies to you or not but thought I would throw it out there. People should really try to let their personalities shine during an interview.

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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Dec 16, 2014 2:33 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Sometimes I wonder why I gave up firm jobs to pursue this route. The application process can be so demoralizing. I am a 3L at a T14 law school, in clinic, had trials already, between summers and semesters at law school I have worked at 4 PD offices, did mock trial, and nothing is working out for me.

I've practiced hypos with my clinic professor, have my why PD answer down, and don't consider myself to be awkward in interviews ... but I can't seem to get any constructive feedback about what I'm doing wrong aside from "oh, there are just so many qualified applicants ... its not a reflection on you, you'll land well somewhere else"

Like ugh. Someone PLEASE pay me 40k to do this work! I love it. I want to do it. I'm begging! lol


/end rant


SERIOUSLY. All my friends are like, wow, you're putting in just so so much effort to get paid nothing when you could go make 160k at a firm with no effort. I want to be a PD so badly, but sometimes I wonder if I'm ever going to get anything at all.

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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:52 pm

Anybody heard about Prettyman Fellowship yet? I know they normally make offers almost on the same day as PDS, so I figured I'd put this question out again...

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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Dec 16, 2014 7:02 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Sometimes I wonder why I gave up firm jobs to pursue this route. The application process can be so demoralizing. I am a 3L at a T14 law school, in clinic, had trials already, between summers and semesters at law school I have worked at 4 PD offices, did mock trial, and nothing is working out for me.

I've practiced hypos with my clinic professor, have my why PD answer down, and don't consider myself to be awkward in interviews ... but I can't seem to get any constructive feedback about what I'm doing wrong aside from "oh, there are just so many qualified applicants ... its not a reflection on you, you'll land well somewhere else"

Like ugh. Someone PLEASE pay me 40k to do this work! I love it. I want to do it. I'm begging! lol


/end rant


SERIOUSLY. All my friends are like, wow, you're putting in just so so much effort to get paid nothing when you could go make 160k at a firm with no effort. I want to be a PD so badly, but sometimes I wonder if I'm ever going to get anything at all.


Your credentials are good enough that you could get a biglaw offer with no effort, despite not having worked at a firm your second summer (and not having a permanent offer to come back), as a 3L at this time of year? If this is true, that means you're one of the tipity top students at a school like HYS, editor in chief of a law review, winner of moot court, etc. Why didn't you apply for federal circuit court clerkships? A federal circuit clerkship (and possibly followed by a SCOTUS clerkship) would be tremendously helpful for you.

FWIW, I think you're making a mistake trying to work for $40k /year as a PD with those credentials. You'll make so much more a reasonable salary working for a public defender's office that's funded by congress.

Just take the $160k /year in biglaw. It's not unheard of for biglaw attorneys to transition into federal public defender's office later in their careers (although, it is pretty rare). The assistant federal PD's I've spoken to, who had worked at large law firms, pretty much just said that they had some good pro bono cases where they got to meet a lot of the attorneys at the FPD's offices and that helped them transition into the offices. Being at a firm that encourages a lot of pro bono work will help. It's not the typical route into a PD's office, but, trust me, if you're one of the tipity top students at a TOP law school, federal public defender's offices and PDS will look at you.

You could also start applying for federal circuit court clerkships now, spend the next year in biglaw, while doing as much pro bono criminal work as you can, and then during your clerkship start applying to public defender's offices. A circuit court clerkship is very marketable for appellate positions at places like PDS and FPD offices in major cities--they tend to hire the top candidates (since a million and a half people apply every time there is an opening at places like FPD for the SDNY).

Best of luck!

Anonymous User
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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Dec 16, 2014 7:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Your credentials are good enough that you could get a biglaw offer with no effort, despite not having worked at a firm your second summer (and not having a permanent offer to come back), as a 3L at this time of year? If this is true, that means you're one of the tipity top students at a school like HYS, editor in chief of a law review, winner of moot court, etc. Why didn't you apply for federal circuit court clerkships?


People on this forum are so quick to be pessimistic and jump to conclusions. Reading is fundamental here.

The OP never said that they could get a firm job with no effort. That was the second poster who quoted them, who, for all you know, could have turned down a firm offer to pursue a PD career.

Just take the $160k /year in biglaw. It's not unheard of for biglaw attorneys to transition into federal public defender's office later in their careers (although, it is pretty rare).


Oh, gee. Let's just be miserable while we wait for the rare opportunity to do what we really love lol. Great advice. :|

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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Just take the $160k /year in biglaw. It's not unheard of for biglaw attorneys to transition into federal public defender's office later in their careers (although, it is pretty rare).


Oh, gee. Let's just be miserable while we wait for the rare opportunity to do what we really love lol. Great advice. :|


$185K /year (incl bonus) + large salary increases each year and some possibility of eventually working at a PD office that'll also pay 6 figures >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> $40k /year working as a local PD. Just to put that into perspective, it'll take you nearly 5 years as a PD at $40k /year to make what you would in your first year as a biglaw associate. Even if you enjoy the PD job more, the rest of your life will be a billion times better by taking the biglaw offer right out of law school. I think this would be a different situation if we were talking about federal government, federally funded PD office, or one of the Cali PD offices that pay decently (e.g. SF).

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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 17, 2014 9:52 am

Any idea how many people philly normal invites to a panel interview and how many they hire? Is it really that brutal?

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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:43 am

Anonymous User wrote:Any idea how many people philly normal invites to a panel interview and how many they hire? Is it really that brutal?


I think they invited a hundred this year and I hear (without having any way to confirm) they hire between 10 and 20

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:49 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Just take the $160k /year in biglaw. It's not unheard of for biglaw attorneys to transition into federal public defender's office later in their careers (although, it is pretty rare).


Oh, gee. Let's just be miserable while we wait for the rare opportunity to do what we really love lol. Great advice. :|


$185K /year (incl bonus) + large salary increases each year and some possibility of eventually working at a PD office that'll also pay 6 figures >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> $40k /year working as a local PD. Just to put that into perspective, it'll take you nearly 5 years as a PD at $40k /year to make what you would in your first year as a biglaw associate. Even if you enjoy the PD job more, the rest of your life will be a billion times better by taking the biglaw offer right out of law school. I think this would be a different situation if we were talking about federal government, federally funded PD office, or one of the Cali PD offices that pay decently (e.g. SF).

I think you're projecting your own opinion/beliefs about jobs onto other people.

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Tanicius
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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Tanicius » Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:45 am

It really is all in the eye of the beholder. I truly love my job. I watch the clock at my job, but it's to make sure I still have time left to do what I need to do that day rather than looking forward to the end of the day. I almost always get to leave at 5 if I want to, the people here are amazing and supportive, and for once in my life it's not a transition-period kind of thing where I'm waiting to move up the ladder -- I'm happy doing what I'm doing right now, and I would be happy to stay doing it for years.

There are public defenders who hate the job or at least a few important components of their job. They phone it in and wish they were making more money. There are also lots of friends I have who love their biglaw job and were built to be a power dude/woman who just never turn off. But by and large I'd say I know a lot more people who hate their jobs in biglaw and really can't wait to ditch the ship for something lower-paying with better hours and more rewarding work. I am very thankful that I don't have to put up with that.

Let's be real here: Someone who knows they want to be a public defender will probably love it. I mean, there are the people who "know" they will love it when they really don't know, and some of those folks might end up realizing the job is not for them when they're in the jail talking to a schizophrenic alcoholic that smells from 20 feet away and are no longer working a cushy summer internship writing motions at their leisure, but a lot of you guys have enough exposure to truly know you will love this work. For those people, the reason you'd take biglaw isn't because of money or exit options, necessarily. Honestly, it's because you're terrified of not getting a job until after graduation. At a T-14 at least, biglaw could offer a safer road to a surefire job, which is something for almost all of us. I went to law school to become a public defender, and I still did OCI just because it seemed stupid to turn down such a safe job offer as a 2L. I didn't get an offer from any of the firms I interviewed for, and in hindsight I can say I am thankful, but as a 3L who was sweating out the PD job hunt, I was terrified.

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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 17, 2014 3:27 pm

.




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