3L Public Defender Applications

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Anonymous User
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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 17, 2014 1:31 pm

Speaking of EJW, I saw that not everyone has posted an opening to apply to, e.g. I didn't see any "job openings" for the Bronx Public Defenders at the EJW job fair site, but I do see some for other public defenders. Will Bronx, as well as the other PDs who are attending the 2014 EJW fair, post the openings eventually? Thanks!
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sun Aug 17, 2014 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Tanicius
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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Tanicius » Sun Aug 17, 2014 1:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Speaking of EJW, I saw that not everyone has posted an opening to apply to, e.g. I didn't see any "job openings" for the Bronx Public Defenders at the EJW job fair site, but I do see some for other public defenders did. Will Bronx, as well as the other PDs who are attending the 2014 EJW fair, post the openings eventually? Thanks!


Yeah, like the day their due a bunch of places will post their applications.

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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:46 am

Anonymous User wrote:Philly- They don't hire until late. They take applications in late february and his year they made offers in April. I have a very solid connection in Philly and made it to the final round along with two other clinicmates. One of my clinic colleague we thought was a shoe-in because in addition to being extremely qualified her parent spent their career at the office and wrote a rec. No dice, we were all rejected. I heard they did about 50 final rounds for 10 spots and turned out to hire almost exclusively former interns and T-5 law schools. I know one person who got hired who was from Philly originally, had interned there, and graduated from Harvard. I love the city, and there are definitely some good things about the office but you need to be SURE you are totally okay with horizontal representation because that is all my final round interview was about. The first round is two hours of panel hypos. Some people found it too intense but I love that kind of thing.


This is so incredibly helpful to hear after I was dinged by them also this last spring. I got a really great feeling from my first round, was contacted within a week for the final round, which was supposedly the easy round, and then, BOOM, rejected, which made me wonder what the fuck I said to put them off. This makes me feel so much better.

I also loved their approach in round one. I'm so much better in mock trial scenarios than in formal interviews that I don't think do much to screen out people who might be good PDs.

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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:20 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Philly- They don't hire until late. They take applications in late february and his year they made offers in April. I have a very solid connection in Philly and made it to the final round along with two other clinicmates. One of my clinic colleague we thought was a shoe-in because in addition to being extremely qualified her parent spent their career at the office and wrote a rec. No dice, we were all rejected. I heard they did about 50 final rounds for 10 spots and turned out to hire almost exclusively former interns and T-5 law schools. I know one person who got hired who was from Philly originally, had interned there, and graduated from Harvard. I love the city, and there are definitely some good things about the office but you need to be SURE you are totally okay with horizontal representation because that is all my final round interview was about. The first round is two hours of panel hypos. Some people found it too intense but I love that kind of thing.


This is so incredibly helpful to hear after I was dinged by them also this last spring. I got a really great feeling from my first round, was contacted within a week for the final round, which was supposedly the easy round, and then, BOOM, rejected, which made me wonder what the fuck I said to put them off. This makes me feel so much better.

I also loved their approach in round one. I'm so much better in mock trial scenarios than in formal interviews that I don't think do much to screen out people who might be good PDs.


Yeah, didn't you love their lengthy discussion in the final round where they tell you all the medical benefits and stuff and when you'll start training? AND THEY DON'T USE CONDITIONALS?! you walk outta there feeling like you already got the job!

Since I had an offer on the table already the director told me she'd call me the next day with an answer....I'm not sure what changed but instead her assistant called me to tell me they needed two more weeks. Frankly its still a great office and I would have loved to work there, but I wasn't wildly fond of how I was treated with that whole exchange.

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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 21, 2014 3:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Philly- They don't hire until late. They take applications in late february and his year they made offers in April. I have a very solid connection in Philly and made it to the final round along with two other clinicmates. One of my clinic colleague we thought was a shoe-in because in addition to being extremely qualified her parent spent their career at the office and wrote a rec. No dice, we were all rejected. I heard they did about 50 final rounds for 10 spots and turned out to hire almost exclusively former interns and T-5 law schools. I know one person who got hired who was from Philly originally, had interned there, and graduated from Harvard. I love the city, and there are definitely some good things about the office but you need to be SURE you are totally okay with horizontal representation because that is all my final round interview was about. The first round is two hours of panel hypos. Some people found it too intense but I love that kind of thing.


This is so incredibly helpful to hear after I was dinged by them also this last spring. I got a really great feeling from my first round, was contacted within a week for the final round, which was supposedly the easy round, and then, BOOM, rejected, which made me wonder what the fuck I said to put them off. This makes me feel so much better.

I also loved their approach in round one. I'm so much better in mock trial scenarios than in formal interviews that I don't think do much to screen out people who might be good PDs.


Yeah, didn't you love their lengthy discussion in the final round where they tell you all the medical benefits and stuff and when you'll start training? AND THEY DON'T USE CONDITIONALS?! you walk outta there feeling like you already got the job!


Oh, yeah, THAT TOO. I was stunned to get shut down after they told me all that information. I'm not sure why they would spend about a half-hour discussing that with 50 people when they're only hiring 10.

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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:13 pm

Hey guys,
Anyone know the general hiring timeline for PDS? i.e., how long does it typically take to get a callback/rejection following a screener, second interview, etc.? Thanks!

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BlueLotus
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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby BlueLotus » Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:15 pm

Anyone applying to BDS' Immigration Practice?

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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:03 pm

Legal Aid Society in NY-- how long should the essays be? There's no word limit... Thanks!

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Tanicius
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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Tanicius » Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Legal Aid Society in NY-- how long should the essays be? There's no word limit... Thanks!


For some, a few sentences suffice. For others, maybe a paragraph or a handful of paragraphs.

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spleenworship
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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby spleenworship » Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Philly- They don't hire until late. They take applications in late february and his year they made offers in April. I have a very solid connection in Philly and made it to the final round along with two other clinicmates. One of my clinic colleague we thought was a shoe-in because in addition to being extremely qualified her parent spent their career at the office and wrote a rec. No dice, we were all rejected. I heard they did about 50 final rounds for 10 spots and turned out to hire almost exclusively former interns and T-5 law schools. I know one person who got hired who was from Philly originally, had interned there, and graduated from Harvard. I love the city, and there are definitely some good things about the office but you need to be SURE you are totally okay with horizontal representation because that is all my final round interview was about. The first round is two hours of panel hypos. Some people found it too intense but I love that kind of thing.


This is so incredibly helpful to hear after I was dinged by them also this last spring. I got a really great feeling from my first round, was contacted within a week for the final round, which was supposedly the easy round, and then, BOOM, rejected, which made me wonder what the fuck I said to put them off. This makes me feel so much better.

I also loved their approach in round one. I'm so much better in mock trial scenarios than in formal interviews that I don't think do much to screen out people who might be good PDs.


The anon here describes my experience and feelings re: Philly almost exactly.

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BlueLotus
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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby BlueLotus » Sat Aug 30, 2014 8:46 am

Spleen, how did you explain away your working for the "dark side" during your 1L summer? While I have never interned at a prosecutor's office, I have PLENTY of victim-centric experience on my resume (i.e. U/T visas, VAWA self-petitions, DV hotline advocate, etc.)

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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:02 am

BlueLotus wrote:Spleen, how did you explain away your working for the "dark side" during your 1L summer? While I have never interned at a prosecutor's office, I have PLENTY of victim-centric experience on my resume (i.e. U/T visas, VAWA self-petitions, DV hotline advocate, etc.)


Take them off your resume? Though I think it's pretty easy to talk about U & T visas as supports for immigrant's rights.

edit: accidental anon use

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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:18 am

Anonymous User wrote:Hey guys,
Anyone know the general hiring timeline for PDS? i.e., how long does it typically take to get a callback/rejection following a screener, second interview, etc.? Thanks!


My guess is sometime soon. I hear that the second interview takes place in October.

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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:39 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Hey guys,
Anyone know the general hiring timeline for PDS? i.e., how long does it typically take to get a callback/rejection following a screener, second interview, etc.? Thanks!


My guess is sometime soon. I hear that the second interview takes place in October.


I had an on campus interview the other day, they said they'd be letting us know about second round interviews within the month.

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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby BlueLotus » Mon Sep 01, 2014 10:06 am

I made a thread for EJW Conference and Career Fair, FYI.
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=235106

For table talks, should I bring everything? Resume, cover letter references, writing sample etc. even if the employer does not ask for it? How long do you have to make your pitch?

In addition, should the writing sample be on bond paper or is printer paper fine? I'm using bond paper for the resume and cover letter and references sheet.

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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:59 am

BlueLotus wrote:I made a thread for EJW Conference and Career Fair, FYI.
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=235106

For table talks, should I bring everything? Resume, cover letter references, writing sample etc. even if the employer does not ask for it? How long do you have to make your pitch?

In addition, should the writing sample be on bond paper or is printer paper fine? I'm using bond paper for the resume and cover letter and references sheet.


Bring everything, make sure they are not totally swarmed when you approach. Say that you were not preselected but are really interested, if they don't have a chance to talk today you'd like to hear how to reapply and be considered outside the EJW process. I used normal paper for my writing sample, but to be honest PDs could care less about paper quality in my experience.

I got 6 or 7 screeners at EJW last year. The job I ultimately accepted I got through table talk. Honestly I think it made me stand out. Good luck!

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BlueLotus
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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby BlueLotus » Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:33 am

Anonymous User wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:I made a thread for EJW Conference and Career Fair, FYI.
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=235106

For table talks, should I bring everything? Resume, cover letter references, writing sample etc. even if the employer does not ask for it? How long do you have to make your pitch?

In addition, should the writing sample be on bond paper or is printer paper fine? I'm using bond paper for the resume and cover letter and references sheet.


Bring everything, make sure they are not totally swarmed when you approach. Say that you were not preselected but are really interested, if they don't have a chance to talk today you'd like to hear how to reapply and be considered outside the EJW process. I used normal paper for my writing sample, but to be honest PDs could care less about paper quality in my experience.

I got 6 or 7 screeners at EJW last year. The job I ultimately accepted I got through table talk. Honestly I think it made me stand out. Good luck!


did you have an interests section on your resume? is this as important for PI employers as it is for firms?

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spleenworship
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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby spleenworship » Thu Sep 04, 2014 1:29 pm

BlueLotus wrote:Spleen, how did you explain away your working for the "dark side" during your 1L summer? While I have never interned at a prosecutor's office, I have PLENTY of victim-centric experience on my resume (i.e. U/T visas, VAWA self-petitions, DV hotline advocate, etc.)



I explained that railroading a bunch of poor Indians with draconian federal penalties made me feel dirty. Only, you know, with bigger words and whatnot.

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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:28 pm

I have interviews coming up with PDS and LAS. I'm still going back and forth about whether or not to go to the EJW fair-- I feel like I've heard mixed things about people's results and I feel like I've had pretty decent luck just applying directly to agencies. What are people's thoughts? Is anyone else passing on that?

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Tanicius
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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Tanicius » Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I have interviews coming up with PDS and LAS. I'm still going back and forth about whether or not to go to the EJW fair-- I feel like I've heard mixed things about people's results and I feel like I've had pretty decent luck just applying directly to agencies. What are people's thoughts? Is anyone else passing on that?


You want every single opportunity you can get. Do not make any assumptions about your chances based on having received initial interviews or summer internships with any prestigious offices. Almost every public defender applicant I know, myself included, received one or maybe two offers out of all the places they applied to, if they were lucky.

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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:02 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I have interviews coming up with PDS and LAS. I'm still going back and forth about whether or not to go to the EJW fair-- I feel like I've heard mixed things about people's results and I feel like I've had pretty decent luck just applying directly to agencies. What are people's thoughts? Is anyone else passing on that?


Are these for 2L summer or permanent positions? If they are for permanent positions, I would recommend still going to EJW. Especially if these are just initial screeners. I know for a fact that PDS makes the most cuts after the second round of interviews. What if they cut you after a second round interview? You may not know before EJW. I think most places operate similarly. I wouldn't give up ANY interview opportunity at this point. If this is for 2L summer, I don't know if I'd recommend going, simply because the hiring process for summers at these places is less stringent and many more people with interviews actually get offers.

It also depends. I'm about 5 hours from Bethesda, so I guess that goes into the calculation, too. If you're on the West Coast, for instance, it may be a lot more difficult and costly to attend EJW if it isn't necessary.

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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I have interviews coming up with PDS and LAS. I'm still going back and forth about whether or not to go to the EJW fair-- I feel like I've heard mixed things about people's results and I feel like I've had pretty decent luck just applying directly to agencies. What are people's thoughts? Is anyone else passing on that?


Are these for 2L summer or permanent positions? If they are for permanent positions, I would recommend still going to EJW. Especially if these are just initial screeners. I know for a fact that PDS makes the most cuts after the second round of interviews. What if they cut you after a second round interview? You may not know before EJW. I think most places operate similarly. I wouldn't give up ANY interview opportunity at this point. If this is for 2L summer, I don't know if I'd recommend going, simply because the hiring process for summers at these places is less stringent and many more people with interviews actually get offers.

It also depends. I'm about 5 hours from Bethesda, so I guess that goes into the calculation, too. If you're on the West Coast, for instance, it may be a lot more difficult and costly to attend EJW if it isn't necessary.


I'm the anonymous poster. I'm applying for permanent positions and I'd for sure have to fly to the conference. I think my trepidation about going to EJW is just that it seems like they only do screener interviews and friends who have applied for PD positions in years past have told me that going through EJW doesn't really help your chances (that could be completely off-- it's just what their experience was). They found that just applying to offices directly made the process more efficient and helped them avoid an unnecessary extra trip (by applying directly I've twice had the experience of being able to skip the screener interview altogether).

I'm obviously a total newbie at the PD hiring process though so I wanted to test the waters and get people's opinions on how much going to EJW helps.

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Tanicius
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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Tanicius » Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I have interviews coming up with PDS and LAS. I'm still going back and forth about whether or not to go to the EJW fair-- I feel like I've heard mixed things about people's results and I feel like I've had pretty decent luck just applying directly to agencies. What are people's thoughts? Is anyone else passing on that?


Are these for 2L summer or permanent positions? If they are for permanent positions, I would recommend still going to EJW. Especially if these are just initial screeners. I know for a fact that PDS makes the most cuts after the second round of interviews. What if they cut you after a second round interview? You may not know before EJW. I think most places operate similarly. I wouldn't give up ANY interview opportunity at this point. If this is for 2L summer, I don't know if I'd recommend going, simply because the hiring process for summers at these places is less stringent and many more people with interviews actually get offers.

It also depends. I'm about 5 hours from Bethesda, so I guess that goes into the calculation, too. If you're on the West Coast, for instance, it may be a lot more difficult and costly to attend EJW if it isn't necessary.


I'm the anonymous poster. I'm applying for permanent positions and I'd for sure have to fly to the conference. I think my trepidation about going to EJW is just that it seems like they only do screener interviews and friends who have applied for PD positions in years past have told me that going through EJW doesn't really help your chances (that could be completely off-- it's just what their experience was). They found that just applying to offices directly made the process more efficient and helped them avoid an unnecessary extra trip (by applying directly I've twice had the experience of being able to skip the screener interview altogether).

I'm obviously a total newbie at the PD hiring process though so I wanted to test the waters and get people's opinions on how much going to EJW helps.


The advantage of EJW over applying directly is that you are guaranteed a 10-minute interview (for the most part). Applying directly, you might simply get rejected and not even know it for months, without ever talking to anyone face to face.

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FlanAl
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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby FlanAl » Thu Sep 04, 2014 10:40 pm

Will your school comp any of the trip? Is there a similar fair easier for you to get to later in the year like PILC or the one they have at UCLA?

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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 04, 2014 10:45 pm

BlueLotus wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:I made a thread for EJW Conference and Career Fair, FYI.
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=235106

For table talks, should I bring everything? Resume, cover letter references, writing sample etc. even if the employer does not ask for it? How long do you have to make your pitch?

In addition, should the writing sample be on bond paper or is printer paper fine? I'm using bond paper for the resume and cover letter and references sheet.


Bring everything, make sure they are not totally swarmed when you approach. Say that you were not preselected but are really interested, if they don't have a chance to talk today you'd like to hear how to reapply and be considered outside the EJW process. I used normal paper for my writing sample, but to be honest PDs could care less about paper quality in my experience.

I got 6 or 7 screeners at EJW last year. The job I ultimately accepted I got through table talk. Honestly I think it made me stand out. Good luck!


did you have an interests section on your resume? is this as important for PI employers as it is for firms?


Same anon here. There is nothing in my resume that is not relevant to public defense. Maybe that's just me.

To the people asking about if EJW is worth it....if you can afford it, do it. You can always reapply if you are not preselected, or table talk and get opportunities that way. I got three offers total, all through EJW. I had some luck with direct applications but ultimately EJW was the way to go.




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