3L Public Defender Applications

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Anonymous User
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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:My understanding was that it was around 70 made it to the Tina interview and that they were only going to take 25. Who knows if this is right but I really tried to pin them down when I had an exploding offer. Brooklyn seemed like similar odds, 25 folks for 5 spots. BUT, this could have all been BS that they use gave me to stop bugging them.



Would it kill these people to make this information public? Why is the process so fucking shrouded in mystery? It's no way to treat people.


Pretty sure it said there would be 25 hires on the application materials


Pretty sure you are wrong. It said 10 offers would be made in December (didn't seem to happen) and that an indeterminate number would be made after that. Whatever the number is, it's a total mystery what process cuts people post Tina meeting? I spend 5 hours taking trains into New York for a 15 minute meet and greet which leads to me getting cut 5 and a half months later.

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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:38 am

Were all of the LAS emails from yesterday "waitlist" notifications, or did some people get outright rejections?

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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:12 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:My understanding was that it was around 70 made it to the Tina interview and that they were only going to take 25. Who knows if this is right but I really tried to pin them down when I had an exploding offer. Brooklyn seemed like similar odds, 25 folks for 5 spots. BUT, this could have all been BS that they use gave me to stop bugging them.



Would it kill these people to make this information public? Why is the process so fucking shrouded in mystery? It's no way to treat people.


Pretty sure it said there would be 25 hires on the application materials


Pretty sure you are wrong. It said 10 offers would be made in December (didn't seem to happen) and that an indeterminate number would be made after that. Whatever the number is, it's a total mystery what process cuts people post Tina meeting? I spend 5 hours taking trains into New York for a 15 minute meet and greet which leads to me getting cut 5 and a half months later.


I got a rejection email yesterday. My interview with Tina was 5 minutes, no joke. And she told me they were only hiring 25 people and, in nicer words, that I had no shot. It's ridiculous that I got a final interview and they made me come in. They need to do more screening if that's how it's going to happen. It was a waste of everyone's time....

Anonymous User
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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:23 am

Sorry to the people who just got rejected by LAS. I got cut after the first round, and what was especially devastating about their rejection, besides the fact that it was my first choice, was that the rejection was spat out by some sort of email robot, not even sent by an actual person.

So now I'm in the position of going back to the same places in New York that rejected me to see if they'll take me on as a volunteer, free labor, while I await bar results and try to get my foot in the door.

As for CPCS, they didn't even acknowledge my recent email asking if they were even still considering me. Too late now , as I registered for the NY/NJ bars because the deadlines are closing in. I was in the running for an appellate position in Colorado, too, but they couldn't even commit to whether or when they would interview me, let alone whether they would hire me. These states with the late bar deadlines fuck it up for everyone. What, I'm going to miss my bar deadlines on the East Coast on the off chance you might give me a job?

Ugh. I've been interviewing since early Fall, and am also pissed as hell to be in this position. So glad that I worked my ass off at internships so that I could get court experience so that I could be in the same position as people who have no court experience at all. Oh, no wait - a lot of those people have big lawl jobs already lined up.

Fuck this market. Fuck this arbitrary hiring process.

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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
I got a rejection email yesterday. My interview with Tina was 5 minutes, no joke. And she told me they were only hiring 25 people and, in nicer words, that I had no shot. It's ridiculous that I got a final interview and they made me come in. They need to do more screening if that's how it's going to happen. It was a waste of everyone's time....


I don't know what's worse.... your situation or mine: Tina assuring me in November, "Do NOT worry... you may not hear from us for a LONG time, but do NOT worry" and all but making me feel like it was a formality.

On the bright side, I got to pay an extra 600$ for NJ bar registration since they dragged their feet so long.

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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:40 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
I got a rejection email yesterday. My interview with Tina was 5 minutes, no joke. And she told me they were only hiring 25 people and, in nicer words, that I had no shot. It's ridiculous that I got a final interview and they made me come in. They need to do more screening if that's how it's going to happen. It was a waste of everyone's time....


They need an actual "panel" final round. How the hell do applicants get compared when the only substantive interview is in front of 2 people who don't see just about everyone else? I had my interview in September - I killed my Jennifer Jewell closing.... but it was early September.... was I even remembered come this week? It's not like I could have made much of an impression in my 10 minute Tina meet and greet.

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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 19, 2014 3:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I got a rejection email yesterday. My interview with Tina was 5 minutes, no joke. And she told me they were only hiring 25 people and, in nicer words, that I had no shot. It's ridiculous that I got a final interview and they made me come in. They need to do more screening if that's how it's going to happen. It was a waste of everyone's time....

They need an actual "panel" final round. How the hell do applicants get compared when the only substantive interview is in front of 2 people who don't see just about everyone else? I had my interview in September - I killed my Jennifer Jewell closing.... but it was early September.... was I even remembered come this week? It's not like I could have made much of an impression in my 10 minute Tina meet and greet.

It must be that your initial application essays are scored according to some standardized rubric, your summation is scored according to another rubric, Tina assigns you a score based on your handshake and smile, and an intern compiles all the scores to create a ranked spreadsheet of applicants from which the top X number are hired once funding is announced. Nobody involved in the process can tell you your chances because only the intern knows your magic number and he's locked in a closet working on the spreadsheet. The exception of course is the one person Tina told had no shot, most likely because she hated his tie.

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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 19, 2014 3:27 pm

This thread is making me feel a little better..

I have already passed the bar in NY. I am in a clerkship now. I just don't know where to go now that I've been rejected from LAS. I don't know what else I'm interested in or qualified for. I have literally never worked at a law firm. Who would hire me?

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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Apr 19, 2014 3:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:It must be that your initial application essays are scored according to some standardized rubric, your summation is scored according to another rubric, Tina assigns you a score based on your handshake and smile, and an intern compiles all the scores to create a ranked spreadsheet of applicants from which the top X number are hired once funding is announced. Nobody involved in the process can tell you your chances because only the intern knows your magic number and he's locked in a closet working on the spreadsheet. The exception of course is the one person Tina told had no shot, most likely because she hated his tie.


So good to laugh again!

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Tanicius
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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Tanicius » Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I got a rejection email yesterday. My interview with Tina was 5 minutes, no joke. And she told me they were only hiring 25 people and, in nicer words, that I had no shot. It's ridiculous that I got a final interview and they made me come in. They need to do more screening if that's how it's going to happen. It was a waste of everyone's time....

They need an actual "panel" final round. How the hell do applicants get compared when the only substantive interview is in front of 2 people who don't see just about everyone else? I had my interview in September - I killed my Jennifer Jewell closing.... but it was early September.... was I even remembered come this week? It's not like I could have made much of an impression in my 10 minute Tina meet and greet.

It must be that your initial application essays are scored according to some standardized rubric, your summation is scored according to another rubric, Tina assigns you a score based on your handshake and smile, and an intern compiles all the scores to create a ranked spreadsheet of applicants from which the top X number are hired once funding is announced. Nobody involved in the process can tell you your chances because only the intern knows your magic number and he's locked in a closet working on the spreadsheet. The exception of course is the one person Tina told had no shot, most likely because she hated his tie.


Someone on my panel interview actually called me in January inquiring about the status of my application. They said they were very excited to hear if I'd been hired. Had to surprise them with the fact that I had been rejected before the Tina interview. They were... perplexed. lol

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spleenworship
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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby spleenworship » Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:This thread is making me feel a little better..

I have already passed the bar in NY. I am in a clerkship now. I just don't know where to go now that I've been rejected from LAS. I don't know what else I'm interested in or qualified for. I have literally never worked at a law firm. Who would hire me?


Is your résumé all PD?

If it is, try private crim def firms, PDs outside of the city, and civil indigent work.

If not, blanket government and non-profit PI organizations across the board as well as the above.

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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 20, 2014 12:25 am

Tanicius wrote:
Someone on my panel interview actually called me in January inquiring about the status of my application. They said they were very excited to hear if I'd been hired. Had to surprise them with the fact that I had been rejected before the Tina interview. They were... perplexed. lol


That's unbelievable. Sounds like they run a real tight ship over there. I feel like a moron for assuming their process had some hidden logic behind it. I mean bottom line with only 25 spots it's going to be rough... but at least cut us all after a fair, objective shake like I got in other offices.

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spleenworship
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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby spleenworship » Sun Apr 20, 2014 10:53 am

Fuck the PD hiring process. Nationally: slow and random, filled with uncertainty, delays, and arbitrariness. Locally: slow and uncertain, filled with nepotism and arbitrary.


I'm so disappointed. People with no trial skills got hired locally over me, while nationally was so competitive that a single bad answer rendered me ineligible for employment.

When I finally get into a PDs office as a lateral, I'm going to try to fix this.

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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:44 pm

spleenworship wrote:Fuck the PD hiring process. Nationally: slow and random, filled with uncertainty, delays, and arbitrariness. Locally: slow and uncertain, filled with nepotism and arbitrary.


I'm so disappointed. People with no trial skills got hired locally over me, while nationally was so competitive that a single bad answer rendered me ineligible for employment.

When I finally get into a PDs office as a lateral, I'm going to try to fix this.

Yeah it's bullshit. Two people from my school got hired At Miami and they both have no trial experience and very little pd experience. Even my CSO stated I had more passion and experience than them so they were confused.

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spleenworship
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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby spleenworship » Mon Apr 21, 2014 3:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
spleenworship wrote:Fuck the PD hiring process. Nationally: slow and random, filled with uncertainty, delays, and arbitrariness. Locally: slow and uncertain, filled with nepotism and arbitrary.


I'm so disappointed. People with no trial skills got hired locally over me, while nationally was so competitive that a single bad answer rendered me ineligible for employment.

When I finally get into a PDs office as a lateral, I'm going to try to fix this.

Yeah it's bullshit. Two people from my school got hired At Miami and they both have no trial experience and very little pd experience. Even my CSO stated I had more passion and experience than them so they were confused.


And they passed over us why again?

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Lawst
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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Lawst » Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:15 pm

spleenworship wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
spleenworship wrote:Fuck the PD hiring process. Nationally: slow and random, filled with uncertainty, delays, and arbitrariness. Locally: slow and uncertain, filled with nepotism and arbitrary.


I'm so disappointed. People with no trial skills got hired locally over me, while nationally was so competitive that a single bad answer rendered me ineligible for employment.

When I finally get into a PDs office as a lateral, I'm going to try to fix this.

Yeah it's bullshit. Two people from my school got hired At Miami and they both have no trial experience and very little pd experience. Even my CSO stated I had more passion and experience than them so they were confused.


And they passed over us why again?


I don't get it either. I mean, do they want people who are in this job for life or those who are trying to get loan forgiveness? Because it's starting to feel like the latter. And I'm sitting here in April, about to graduate from a T1 with a PD-only resume and trial experience, having interviewed with every office I wanted to work for, and having been rejected by all of them. As a 2L, I had six summer internship offers to choose from - and though of course unpaid and temporary is a whole other story, my point is that I don't think I'm a terrible interviewee. I'll keep chipping away and be a volunteer attorney until I land a permanent job, but I am bitter as fuck.

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spleenworship
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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby spleenworship » Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:47 pm

I seriously can't figure out a pattern. Some offices went for straight up nepotism. Others went for people with preftige. Still more for people with loads of trial ad but no passion or commitment to PD work. Others went for people with loads of appellate work or good grades.

What I do know is that people with real PD passion lost out something fierce. We scraped to get jobs. And of all the qualities, I think that was probably the most important.

Fuck it. They'll learn when more than half their incoming classes quit after the minimum commitment. And another 10% quit after the first year. Dumbasses.

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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:11 am

Been following this thread, but was wondering if there was anyone who applied for CO and were former CO clerks?

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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:49 pm

I'm sorry to all of those who got a rejection from LAS.

For those interested in numbers- I think they ended up hiring around 35- 40 people. I also think that internships with LAS mean A LOT. Like a hell of a lot. If you have a supervising attorney pulling for you, gunning for you all of the way, bothering Tina, it helps. I do not think that their hiring process has any sort of logic, in any sort of capacity. I know so many people at my school that would have made incredible PDs and they got the boot. If you really want to work for LAS they have the parole advocacy office, and appeals, which was taking applications (not sure if they currently are doing so- it's more competitive than the trial office, but maybe worth a shot) so I would contact the directors of both of those offices. Parole advocacy attorneys have the opportunity to lateral into the trial offices in two years.

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spleenworship
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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby spleenworship » Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Been following this thread, but was wondering if there was anyone who applied for CO and were former CO clerks?


A classmate was. He got the job.

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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:25 pm

Has anyone had any updates on legal aid society juvenile rights?

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FlanAl
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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby FlanAl » Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm sorry to all of those who got a rejection from LAS.

For those interested in numbers- I think they ended up hiring around 35- 40 people. I also think that internships with LAS mean A LOT. Like a hell of a lot. If you have a supervising attorney pulling for you, gunning for you all of the way, bothering Tina, it helps. I do not think that their hiring process has any sort of logic, in any sort of capacity. I know so many people at my school that would have made incredible PDs and they got the boot. If you really want to work for LAS they have the parole advocacy office, and appeals, which was taking applications (not sure if they currently are doing so- it's more competitive than the trial office, but maybe worth a shot) so I would contact the directors of both of those offices. Parole advocacy attorneys have the opportunity to lateral into the trial offices in two years.


Didn't know about the lateral opportunity so I figured I'd bold it for future generations. Personally, I think its good that former interns get a better shot than people who've never worked there before. The fact that these places don't operate on something similar to the law firm model of hiring baffles me. Why would they pick someone based off a 2 hr interview over someone they've already worked with and liked. I mean they obviously couldn't have a 90% offer rate or whatever but forcing interns that did good work that they want to hire to go through the whole hiring process seems ridiculous and honestly forces a lot of talent into big law for better job security.

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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:36 pm

spleenworship wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Been following this thread, but was wondering if there was anyone who applied for CO and were former CO clerks?


A classmate was. He got the job.


Thanks, good to hear.

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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:57 pm

I know peeps who got called for final rounds with LAS. Why are they still interviewing if they made their offers already and there are people on the waitlist?!! I don't understand! :(

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Re: 3L Public Defender Applications

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 24, 2014 3:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I know peeps who got called for final rounds with LAS. Why are they still interviewing if they made their offers already and there are people on the waitlist?!! I don't understand! :(



there shouldn't be any way this is possible. Are you sure it's not for appeals or the juvenile division or civil? They already made all of their offers for the trial office and established a wait list. There are other divisions, so maybe that's what they mean.




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