3L Public Defender Applications Forum

[StillUnemployed3L]

Should I apply to work at Starbucks or should I call BDS and beg for a job

[Anonymous User]

Can any former New Orleans PD interns (or anyone with information) shed some light on what it's like working there as a staff attorney? Is it as soul-crushing as it's made out to be?

Any responses on this?

[Anonymous User]

For anyone interested, Maryland just renewed its Fall Class of 2016 job posting despite having interviewed dozens of us in December/January and then never following up. Unbelievable. Thanks a lot for wasting my time and money, Johanna.

[Anonymous User]

For anyone interested, Maryland just renewed its Fall Class of 2016 job posting despite having interviewed dozens of us in December/January and then never following up. Unbelievable. Thanks a lot for wasting my time and money, Johanna.

Yeaaaaahhhhh.... I received a snail mail ding last week 4 months after my initial interview, as if it wasn't already obvious that I wasn't getting hired lol. And yep, in that letter it said they would be reviewing apps for the fall class in the coming months and that if I'm still interested to e-mail them saying so. I was under the impression that they were simultaneously hiring for spring and fall, so obviously they just didn't find what they were looking for in this applicant pool... but then it's like well why tell people from that same applicant pool to e-mail if still interested if you've already essentially decided that you aren't interested in them lol. I don't get it.

[Anonymous User]

does anyone know what the 3rd round at Brooklyn entails?

[Anonymous User]

does anyone know what the 3rd round at Brooklyn entails?

Very casual conversation with Lisa and several other high level members of the hiring committee, at least in my case (3L)

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone received an offer from LAS in New York? And if so, when?

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone received an offer from LAS in New York? And if so, when?

Based on this thread, speaking with friends, and my own anecdotal evidence after a 3rd round and trying to leverage an offer, LAS isn't offering until April.

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone who had a final round with Philly gotten a final rejection yet? It'd be nice to know one way or the other, or if final offers have gone out.

[Borhas]

I'm a PD with a little over 2 years of experience doing adult felonies, misdemeanors, and most recently juvenile cases

if you have questions send me a message, I work in the Colorado State PD system

if I don't respond it's because I'm busy, so just try again in a little while

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone received an offer from LAS in New York? And if so, when?

I know of just 1 person who got an offer.

[Anonymous User]

To the person with the friend who got the LAS offer, do you know when that was or under what circumstances, if you don't mind sharing?

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone received an offer from LAS in New York? And if so, when?

I know of just 1 person who got an offer.

Do you know when the offer was made?

[Anonymous User]

To the person with the friend who got the LAS offer, do you know when that was or under what circumstances, if you don't mind sharing?

Not sure exactly when but it was recent. Not sure the circumstances. Sorry can't be that helpful I'm still waiting myself

[Skier2209]

Could the user who posted about Nassau County Legal Aid message me? Thinking about taking an offer there and could really use some advice!

[pdwannabe]

I'm a PD with a little over 2 years of experience doing adult felonies, misdemeanors, and most recently juvenile cases

if you have questions send me a message, I work in the Colorado State PD system

if I don't respond it's because I'm busy, so just try again in a little while

how many trials have you had?

what was your guidance/supervision like at first?

did anything stand out that surprised you or caught you off guard, like a major difference of being a 1st/2nd year lawyer vs working at a PD office over the summer as a law student?

[Anonymous User]

I'm a PD with a little over 2 years of experience doing adult felonies, misdemeanors, and most recently juvenile cases

if you have questions send me a message, I work in the Colorado State PD system

if I don't respond it's because I'm busy, so just try again in a little while

how many trials have you had?

what was your guidance/supervision like at first?

did anything stand out that surprised you or caught you off guard, like a major difference of being a 1st/2nd year lawyer vs working at a PD office over the summer as a law student?

I have had 19 trials so far, 3 of them have been felonies.

I basically had to learn every practical thing from scratch. I had no idea how to run a docket, but after about 3 months I could more or less be competent. I had supervisors who always answered my questions but I usually didn't have someone looking over my back or observing me in court. The level of supervision you get varies widely from general independent to micromanagement depending on which office you are placed in.

Major differences from 2L intern to being a line PD?
1. work load. I got through school mostly by cramming for a few weeks of the year. I work probably ten times as much as I have worked at other parts of my life.
2. Responsibility. As an intern the buck always stopped with someone else. It is scary having so much responsibility and not knowing what the fuck you are doing (at least early on).

EDIT obviously I'm Borhas didn't mean to post anon

[pdwannabe]

I'm a PD with a little over 2 years of experience doing adult felonies, misdemeanors, and most recently juvenile cases

if you have questions send me a message, I work in the Colorado State PD system

if I don't respond it's because I'm busy, so just try again in a little while

how many trials have you had?

what was your guidance/supervision like at first?

did anything stand out that surprised you or caught you off guard, like a major difference of being a 1st/2nd year lawyer vs working at a PD office over the summer as a law student?

I have had 19 trials so far, 3 of them have been felonies.

I basically had to learn every practical thing from scratch. I had no idea how to run a docket, but after about 3 months I could more or less be competent. I had supervisors who always answered my questions but I usually didn't have someone looking over my back or observing me in court. The level of supervision you get varies widely from general independent to micromanagement depending on which office you are placed in.

Major differences from 2L intern to being a line PD?
1. work load. I got through school mostly by cramming for a few weeks of the year. I work probably ten times as much as I have worked at other parts of my life.
2. Responsibility. As an intern the buck always stopped with someone else. It is scary having so much responsibility and not knowing what the fuck you are doing (at least early on).

EDIT obviously I'm Borhas didn't mean to post anon

thanks for the response! thats great that you've had that many trials already.

how would you rate your enjoyment of your job? i would also classify myself as someone who got through law school by cramming and mostly doing the minimal amount of work when i could. do you mind working 10x more now? have you experienced any burnout at all?

[Anonymous User]

Hello. I got an offer, but I wanted to see what the standard is in terms of health insurance, salary, 401k contribution, life insurance. My offer letter includes none of that information, so I'm wondering if it is negotiable? I also wanted to see if any PD offices reimburse you for a bar prep course? If people currently working at PD offices could post their compensation, that would be very helpful. Thank you I'm not doing this job to get rich, but I don't want to get taken advantage of.

[Tanicius]

Hello. I got an offer, but I wanted to see what the standard is in terms of health insurance, salary, 401k contribution, life insurance. My offer letter includes none of that information, so I'm wondering if it is negotiable? I also wanted to see if any PD offices reimburse you for a bar prep course? If people currently working at PD offices could post their compensation, that would be very helpful. Thank you I'm not doing this job to get rich, but I don't want to get taken advantage of.

Compensation really varies by locale and office. Benefits tend to be set in stone because most of these jobs are government jobs.

[anon sequitur]

Never heard of compensation for a PD/DA job being negotiable, except for arguing that you're qualified for a higher hiring slot (e.g., PD I vs. PD II), which seems extremely unlikely. This is just generally now how government hiring works, especially for entry level.

If you're being employed by the state, just look up state benefits, you'll probably have the same benefits package as most/all state employees. If employed by the city, look up city benefits. You could also call the office's HR/office manager type person if you all have one.

[Anonymous User]

Never heard of compensation for a PD/DA job being negotiable, except for arguing that you're qualified for a higher hiring slot (e.g., PD I vs. PD II), which seems extremely unlikely. This is just generally now how government hiring works, especially for entry level.

If you're being employed by the state, just look up state benefits, you'll probably have the same benefits package as most/all state employees. If employed by the city, look up city benefits. You could also call the office's HR/office manager type person if you all have one.

Thank you. I just found my answer on the state website.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone applying to or already working in appellate defense?

[Manali]

Does Washington state hire pre-bar?

[Anonymous User]

thanks for the response! thats great that you've had that many trials already.

how would you rate your enjoyment of your job? i would also classify myself as someone who got through law school by cramming and mostly doing the minimal amount of work when i could. do you mind working 10x more now? have you experienced any burnout at all?

You can get a different answer to that question depending on when you ask me, but usually:

I don't mind the hours as much, but the emotional toll can be brutal because it will tax you when you are off the clock. 1) you lose all the time, and a good PD has to be ok with losing because you have to try all sorts of shit. You don't have the luxury of turning down shitty cases with high maintenance or delusional clients. 2) you bond with most of your clients and care for them on a basic human-human level and then you have to tell them all sorts of shitty news about their lives being ruined.

On the other hand I have made a difference in a lot of people's lives for the better, and most of those people deserved a break. As a PD you will get a lot of interesting cases just due to volume. Lastly, I love the people I work with.

I can't do it forever but I don't regret doing this even though it was way more work than I thought it would be.

damnit I screwed up again and posted anon. It's borhas