Potential Disavdantages of 1L SA?

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Anonymous User
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Potential Disavdantages of 1L SA?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:27 pm

1L at T10, spoke recently to career services about 1L summer associateships.
I was told that students misunderstand the potential downsides of having 1L firm jobs, specifically: a scenario where the 1L SA performs poorly, isn't invited back for a second summer, and then during OCI the student would need to explain why he/she is not going back to the previous firm.

I'm skeptical that this is too much of a concern. If the first summer doesn't work out, I'd think there's nothing wrong with saying something general about how it wasn't the right fit and moving on. Would an interviewer even ask if the candidate has an offer to go back? Would an interviewer press hard about why a candidate might not be going back to their 1L firm?

It seems the benefits of (getting really lucky) and swinging a 1L job outweigh any of this sort of thing. Thoughts?

c3pO4
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Re: Potential Disavdantages of 1L SA?

Postby c3pO4 » Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:37 pm

Umm. Well if you do poorly and are not invited back, I agree with your CSO --- that is a terrible terrible terrible situation to be in.

Just make sure that doesn't happen? It's not like it's out of your control. 1L SA's are great for experience, leverage in getting offers as a 2L, and for the resume. If you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen.

Edit: They will ask about whether you were asked to come back. 100%.

spondee
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Re: Potential Disavdantages of 1L SA?

Postby spondee » Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:44 pm

That's a stupid reason to be wary of a 1L SA. Firms know how little you know. Do what they do ask you to do as well as you can and act professionally. It's no different than 2L SA. A no-offer then would make 3L OCI difficult, but no one would suggest a 2L SA is too risky for that reason.

The real loss of taking a 1L SA is you waste the one chance you have in law school to try out any sector of legal work and see what it's like.

PeanutHead
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Re: Potential Disavdantages of 1L SA?

Postby PeanutHead » Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:47 pm

Honestly I wouldn't spend any time worrying about this now because the chances of you actually landing a 1L SA are almost 0.
Last edited by PeanutHead on Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

c3pO4
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Re: Potential Disavdantages of 1L SA?

Postby c3pO4 » Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:47 pm

PeanutHead wrote:Honestly I wouldn't spend any time worrying about this now because the chances of you actually landing a 1L SA are almost 0.


+1. You probably won't get one.

071816
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Re: Potential Disavdantages of 1L SA?

Postby 071816 » Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:51 pm

My advice: Be sure not to try anything in life because you might fail and that would be worse than not having tried at all.

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Re: Potential Disavdantages of 1L SA?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Nov 05, 2011 5:32 pm

c3pO4 wrote:
PeanutHead wrote:Honestly I wouldn't spend any time worrying about this now because the chances of you actually landing a 1L SA are almost 0.


+1. You probably won't get one.


It is actually quite possible if you have previous related/legal experience that differentiates you from everyone else. I know this from personal experience. Two friends landed 1L SA's because they have previous legal experience in other countries, the corresponding foreign JD from that country, and a master of that foreign language. One of them even split among two firms for her 1L SA. If you have real and useful skills that few others possess, they will be appreciated so do not despair.

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Re: Potential Disavdantages of 1L SA?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Nov 05, 2011 5:41 pm

spondee wrote:That's a stupid reason to be wary of a 1L SA. Firms know how little you know. Do what they do ask you to do as well as you can and act professionally. It's no different than 2L SA. A no-offer then would make 3L OCI difficult, but no one would suggest a 2L SA is too risky for that reason.

The real loss of taking a 1L SA is you waste the one chance you have in law school to try out any sector of legal work and see what it's like.


OP this is NOT the correct answer and your concerns are VERY valid. To be frank, I know someone that had the EXACT scenario you described happen to them. They got a 1L firm job in a market known for hiring a lot of 1Ls and then asking them back as 2Ls. He was not asked back for 2L and subsequently struck out with other firms at 2L OCI.

Frankly, I would say the exact opposite of what the quoted post says about law firms. Although firms may know how little you know as a student, paradoxically they have VERY high expectations for your work. Frankly, it is definitely something to be concerned about and no offers happen a LOT more frequently than this website likes to intimate. I know several people who were no offered across multiple markets. You do not have "try" to get no-offered. You have to understand that most people at large law firms are people who are very meticulous, intelligent, and detail-oriented. If you make mistakes it WILL annoy them and they WILL notice. I'm not saying that you shouldn't take a 1L firm job, but just understand that the pressure of performing is a lot higher than many on here make it out to be. And in this economy it's even more likely to happen.

bdubs
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Re: Potential Disavdantages of 1L SA?

Postby bdubs » Sat Nov 05, 2011 5:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
c3pO4 wrote:
PeanutHead wrote:Honestly I wouldn't spend any time worrying about this now because the chances of you actually landing a 1L SA are almost 0.


+1. You probably won't get one.


It is actually quite possible if you have previous related/legal experience that differentiates you from everyone else. I know this from personal experience. Two friends landed 1L SA's because they have previous legal experience in other countries, the corresponding foreign JD from that country, and a master of that foreign language. One of them even split among two firms for her 1L SA. If you have real and useful skills that few others possess, they will be appreciated so do not despair.


I think it's probably different if you're talking about a 1L SA at a foreign firm.

Anonymous User
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Re: Potential Disavdantages of 1L SA?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Nov 05, 2011 5:49 pm

bdubs wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
c3pO4 wrote:
PeanutHead wrote:Honestly I wouldn't spend any time worrying about this now because the chances of you actually landing a 1L SA are almost 0.


+1. You probably won't get one.


It is actually quite possible if you have previous related/legal experience that differentiates you from everyone else. I know this from personal experience. Two friends landed 1L SA's because they have previous legal experience in other countries, the corresponding foreign JD from that country, and a master of that foreign language. One of them even split among two firms for her 1L SA. If you have real and useful skills that few others possess, they will be appreciated so do not despair.


I think it's probably different if you're talking about a 1L SA at a foreign firm.


1L firm jobs are quite common in Texas and Birmingham.

bdubs
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Re: Potential Disavdantages of 1L SA?

Postby bdubs » Sat Nov 05, 2011 5:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
bdubs wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
It is actually quite possible if you have previous related/legal experience that differentiates you from everyone else. I know this from personal experience. Two friends landed 1L SA's because they have previous legal experience in other countries, the corresponding foreign JD from that country, and a master of that foreign language. One of them even split among two firms for her 1L SA. If you have real and useful skills that few others possess, they will be appreciated so do not despair.


I think it's probably different if you're talking about a 1L SA at a foreign firm.


1L firm jobs are quite common in Texas and Birmingham.


Are you seriously suggesting that a foreigner with language skills would have a lot of value to firms in Texas or Birmingham? Potentially if that country happens to be one with a lot of oil and gas resources, but there just aren't very many non-LLM students that fit that criteria.

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NinerFan
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Re: Potential Disavdantages of 1L SA?

Postby NinerFan » Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:59 pm

1L Firm jobs can be had. While it's difficult to get one for biglaw, there are a number of regional or smaller firms that offer 1L's SA positions. In my experience though, they mainly draw from regional or state schools, so you'll need good ties to the place. Try looking up firms in your hometown, that's how a few kids I knew who had SA positions got them.

'Course, if they don't generally offer to kids straight out of law school and just let people work for them over the summer, it can be awkward explaining at OCI why you were "no offered" from your 1L job.

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Re: Potential Disavdantages of 1L SA?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Nov 06, 2011 12:30 am

"I enjoyed my experience at XYZ, however after talking with former alums from your firm, I think the opportunities at your company better align with my interests."

"I enjoyed my experience at XYZ, however, due to a financial reasons, the firm was only able to offer a limited number of offers for full-time employment."

"I enjoyed my experience at XYZ, however, I do not want to work in ABC city and they have no offices in city BEF. This is why I am interviewing with your firm today."

"I enjoyed my experience at XYZ, however, they are not strong in ABC, that is what draws me to your firm."

"For whatever reason, XYZ did not meet my expectations and I decided to pursue full-time opportunities at other firms. As my track record reflects, I have consistently outperformed. Certainly, if you talked to my professors and former coworkers from my intersnships and full-time jobs, you will see that I have what it takes to be successful at your firm."

"I was offered a full-time position, however, the firm encourages 1L's to seek opportunities at other firms to really make sure that XYZ is where they want to work upon graduation."

Aqualibrium
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Re: Potential Disavdantages of 1L SA?

Postby Aqualibrium » Sun Nov 06, 2011 12:43 am

The idea that you'd turn down, not try to get, or be wary of accepting a 1L sa because you might get no offered is quite simply the most foolish thing I've ever heard.

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NinerFan
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Re: Potential Disavdantages of 1L SA?

Postby NinerFan » Sun Nov 06, 2011 1:08 am

Well, to be fair, these places aren't like biglaw where everyone gets an offer unless you seriously screw up. I didn't get an offer from a firm I worked for in my first summer, but that wasn't unusual for them because they don't generally make offers for additional summers, so all 4 of us summers were "no offered" despite doing just fine.

Still, if it's a reputable place then I'd definitely take a paid gig over interning with a judge or working a PI job.

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worldtraveler
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Re: Potential Disavdantages of 1L SA?

Postby worldtraveler » Sun Nov 06, 2011 1:52 am

It could be bad if you decide you hate working at a firm and then want public interest when every public interest place will just wonder why you didn't just work at a public interest place your 1L summer. Then they'll just think you're looking at public interest as a back up. It's rare but it does happen.

MBeezy11
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Re: Potential Disavdantages of 1L SA?

Postby MBeezy11 » Sun Nov 06, 2011 2:31 am

From experience I can tell you that firms ranked considerably lower than your 1L firm will be reluctant to give you an offer. They will assume you will pick the higher ranked firm unless the firm has a strong specialty the higher ranked firm does not.




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