3L OCI/Employment Search Results: Forum

[Anonymous User]

School: CCN
Market(s): NY/DC/secondary
Approximate class rank: 10%ish
Journal: Secondary
Work experience:K-JD
IP background: No
Summer Associate Position? No- worked in non-prestigious federal internship.
Offered? N/A
Anything else that might have an impact? (diversity, etc. or whatever, really): was a transfer student.
Screening Interviews: 7 from OCI.
Mass mails: 70? Plus some simplicity postings.
Callbacks received: 5, 4 biglaw one smaller international firm.
Offers: 0
How many firms just didn't get back with you with a rejection/callback?: 1 (still waiting on one.
Clerkship Interview: 90ish apps, no interviews
Other: Perhaps I should have dropped out after I struck out as a 2L.

[3L Student]

3L Student, who struck out last year!

School*: MVPB
Market(s): SF/NYC/LON
Approximate class rank: Transfer (Top 5% at T2); MEDIAN at T10.
Law review: Secondary
Work experience: 2 Years unrelated field
IP background: N
Anything else that might have an impact? (diversity, etc. or whatever, really): Paid internship with prestigious government organization
Screening Interviews: 10
Mass mails: 350+ (and about 100 targeted emails/networking)
Callbacks received: 7 - 2 OCI, 5 mass mail and networking
Callbacks accepted: 7
Offers w/vault ranges: 1 V10 (SF), by networking; 1 (Magic Circle firm in LON), by networking; 1 NLJ 250, Market Pay (SF), OCI
Rejections: Withdrew from 3 (V10, Magic Circle, V10), rejection from 1 (V5).


Things that may have hurt me BESIDES terrible interviewing:
1) I did not summer with a firm after 2L because I did not receive an offer.
2) I have never worked with a firm before
3) I did litigation over the summer, and I only applied to Corporate Practice this time around


Advice:
1) NETWORK (call, email, visit. It's the only way to work it as a 3L, and I wish that I had done it during 2L)
2) Don't listen to the crap about there being no job opportunities during 3L. There are lots of firms hiring, you just have to network to get your foot in the door. If you have a negative attitude, like most of TLS here, you WILL fail. Don't give up!!!
3) PREPARE for interviews. Know the firm forwards and backwards. Know exactly what you want to do if you're a 3L, because firms are only looking to hire 3Ls into certain practice areas. Read Guerrilla Tactics (the interview section). PRACTICE your interviewing skills. Have prepared answers that come up every interview. Act extremely interested with every firm. And if you get an offer/CB, use it as leverage to see other firms.

[dailygrind]

^^

Hot damn that is impressive.

[dailygrind]

Lol. Baristas make like 18k a year.

Yes and Shitlaw makes roughly double after tax for more than double the work. Edit, mean double the hours for double the pay. Thus, I don't see the difference in salary.

Dude, I would much rather be a shitlaw attorney while gaining experience and having the high ceiling in lawyer salary than working 40 hrs a week as a barista, a hell life if you've ever had such a job.

+1. I gotta imagine that the whole idea of law seems unappetizing when you've already sunk 2.5 years into it (in a very academically impressive fashion) and come up without a big law job, but walking away from it to be a barista or waiter seems like irrational loathing. I worked as a waiter throughout undergrad. There really aren't a whole lot of exit options, the assistant manager positions often pay barely more than the waiting or bartending positions, and the only person in there who I knew to make a good living was the general manager. The lifers who were still waiting tables were some of the most miserable people I knew.

[Anonymous User]

School: CCN
Market(s): NYC
Approximate class rank: Top -10%
Law review: Secondary Journal
Work experience: 0
IP background: 0
Summer Associate Position? Yes, market paying firm.
Offered? Yes
Anything else that might have an impact? (diversity, etc. or whatever, really): No
Screening Interviews: 6
Mass mails: ~10 targeted mailings.
Callbacks received: 5 V10 firms.
Offers: 2 Offers
How many firms just didn't get back with you with a rejection/callback?: None
Clerkship Interview: 2 Clerkship Interviews
Clerkship Offers: 1 Offer -- Accepted

[Anonymous User]

School: CCN
Market(s): NYC
Approximate class rank: Top -10%
Law review: Secondary Journal
Work experience: 0
IP background: 0
Summer Associate Position? Yes, market paying firm.
Offered? Yes
Anything else that might have an impact? (diversity, etc. or whatever, really): No
Screening Interviews: 6
Mass mails: ~10 targeted mailings.
Callbacks received: 5 V10 firms.
Offers: 2 Offers
How many firms just didn't get back with you with a rejection/callback?: None
Clerkship Interview: 2 Clerkship Interviews
Clerkship Offers: 1 Offer -- Accepted

Where was your market paying firm? NYC? NJ?

[Anonymous User]

School: CCN
Market(s): NYC
Approximate class rank: Top -10%
Law review: Secondary Journal
Work experience: 0
IP background: 0
Summer Associate Position? Yes, market paying firm.
Offered? Yes
Anything else that might have an impact? (diversity, etc. or whatever, really): No
Screening Interviews: 6
Mass mails: ~10 targeted mailings.
Callbacks received: 5 V10 firms.
Offers: 2 Offers
How many firms just didn't get back with you with a rejection/callback?: None
Clerkship Interview: 2 Clerkship Interviews
Clerkship Offers: 1 Offer -- Accepted

Where was your market paying firm? NYC? NJ?

Secondary Market (Not NYC or NJ)

[Anonymous User]

School: CCN
Market(s): NYC
Approximate class rank: Top 25%
Law review: Secondary Journal
Work experience: 2
IP background: 0
Summer Associate Position? No, had a public interest internship.
Offered? N/A
Anything else that might have an impact? (diversity, etc. or whatever, really): A professor recommended me to a senior partner at one of the firms where I received a CB and offer. Worked with a senior partner at another firm (where I received a CB but not an offer) on a transactional project during the summer.
Screening Interviews: 5 (4 from OCI, 1 via Symplicity)
Mass mails: 0
Callbacks received: 2 V10, 1 V15, 1 V50.
Offers: 2 V10 Offers, cancelled CB with V50 after received other offers.
How many firms just didn't get back with you with a rejection/callback?: None

Other: While I did public interest work over the summer, it was still very transactionally focused (e.g., a financing deal that took place over most of the summer). It was fairly easy to translate the work I did over the summer into an explanation of my desire to practice corporate law.

[Omerta]

HP Lovecraft is like my little pony compared to this thread. This is horrifying.

[Anonymous User]

I know at least a couple of people at BU/BC who got V50 jobs in Boston as 3Ls.

But they held internships in a specific niche and/or got very lucky. They only have middling grades/ definitely not in top 1/3 or something.

This happens - but total crapshoot

[omninode]

HP Lovecraft is like my little pony compared to this thread. This is horrifying.

It's like visiting a slaughterhouse.

[Anonymous User]

School: CCN
Market(s): NY/DC/secondary
Approximate class rank: 10%ish
Journal: Secondary
Work experience:K-JD
IP background: No
Summer Associate Position? No- worked in non-prestigious federal internship.
Offered? N/A
Anything else that might have an impact? (diversity, etc. or whatever, really): was a transfer student.
Screening Interviews: 7 from OCI.
Mass mails: 70? Plus some simplicity postings.
Callbacks received: 5, 4 biglaw one smaller international firm.
Offers: 0
How many firms just didn't get back with you with a rejection/callback?: 1 (still waiting on one.
Clerkship Interview: 90ish apps, no interviews
Other: Perhaps I should have dropped out after I struck out as a 2L.

Were you top 10 percent after 1L, too? Any idea why you struck out at 2L OCI?

Edit: Never mind, missed that you were a transfer.

[Anonymous User]

I know at least a couple of people at BU/BC who got V50 jobs in Boston as 3Ls.

But they held internships in a specific niche and/or got very lucky. They only have middling grades/ definitely not in top 1/3 or something.

This happens - but total crapshoot

wow that is amazing. I don't think there is a single 3L at wustl who got something from 3L oci. My friend is top 5% at wustl. He got a couple interviews, but no offers. Should have went to bu/bc

[Anonymous User]

I know at least a couple of people at BU/BC who got V50 jobs in Boston as 3Ls.

But they held internships in a specific niche and/or got very lucky. They only have middling grades/ definitely not in top 1/3 or something.

This happens - but total crapshoot

Did they work for smaller firms as 2Ls? I'm a BC/BU 2L (Top 20% LR) who just struck out and am trying to figure out what to do next/ if I should just drop out now.

[Anonymous User]

I know at least a couple of people at BU/BC who got V50 jobs in Boston as 3Ls.

But they held internships in a specific niche and/or got very lucky. They only have middling grades/ definitely not in top 1/3 or something.

This happens - but total crapshoot

Did they work for smaller firms as 2Ls? I'm a BC/BU 2L (Top 20% LR) who just struck out and am trying to figure out what to do next/ if I should just drop out now.

don't drop out .... there is still hope (depends on what your debt load is)

some of them did work for smaller firms - but one did many internships focused on a particular area. They may be presentable in person but no, they are not impressive grade-wise.

I've known people getting offers from nice/decent small/new firms (decent pay and not shitlaw at all!)

[Anonymous User]

I know at least a couple of people at BU/BC who got V50 jobs in Boston as 3Ls.

But they held internships in a specific niche and/or got very lucky. They only have middling grades/ definitely not in top 1/3 or something.

This happens - but total crapshoot

Did they work for smaller firms as 2Ls? I'm a BC/BU 2L (Top 20% LR) who just struck out and am trying to figure out what to do next/ if I should just drop out now.

Note: this is some advice coming from someone who is at WUSTl 3L top 20% who struck out.

If you maintain your grades top 15-20%, you will not have a realistic chance at a federal clerkship. You need top 10% to have a decent chance at a federal clerkship. State supreme is just as difficult as federal clerkships. The only option would be for state appellate level courts. Some states have spring 2L deadlines. So check with the state that you are from.

Your chances at 3L oci is shitty. This is true of schools even at the CCN level.

Your best bet is to keep looking for midlevel firms that are still hiring. Dont give up! If nothing happens, work on your grades, you might be able to acheive top 10%.

[Eco]

Where are people getting the 40k figure for small law, especially for cities like LA, DC, NYC? Come on. 40k sounds like public interest salary. I worked for a small firm while I was in undergrad and one of the attorneys there, graduated from pepperdine, was paid 70k. 50-70k sounds like the range small firms would likely pay IMO.

[Anonymous User]

eco:

but it also depends on the type of work the firm does.
there are many 40K small law jobs on craigslist. I dare not say they are shitlaw - some are legitimate. your colleagues may not be mean people. just low pay.

I know a small (well less than 20 attorneys) firm that pays the 80-100K range but they do international transactions, M & A.... etc.

[Anonymous User]

I know at least a couple of people at BU/BC who got V50 jobs in Boston as 3Ls.

But they held internships in a specific niche and/or got very lucky. They only have middling grades/ definitely not in top 1/3 or something.

This happens - but total crapshoot

Did they work for smaller firms as 2Ls? I'm a BC/BU 2L (Top 20% LR) who just struck out and am trying to figure out what to do next/ if I should just drop out now.

As a 3L top 20% at a T10 who has given up on the job search, I would say your best choice is to drop out. The opportunities after OCI for high paying jobs tend to only be available to people who SA'd at Biglaw.

Small Law also pays around 40k, not the 50-70k suggested. It's simple economics, there is an unlimited supply of law grads willing to do legal work at any price. In fact 40k is really generous of shitlaw, they could probably have a limitless pile of applicants for 25k.

As someone in even a better position than you with no chance of finding a legal job paying over 40k, I strongly suggest dropping out. This is based on my actual experience as a 3L T10 with top 20% grades, not as a TLSer speculating on what such a situation would be like.

[Anonymous User]

Where are people getting the 40k figure for small law, especially for cities like LA, DC, NYC? Come on. 40k sounds like public interest salary. I worked for a small firm while I was in undergrad and one of the attorneys there, graduated from pepperdine, was paid 70k. 50-70k sounds like the range small firms would likely pay IMO.

$40k is the starting salary. Salary tends to go up fairly quickly in small law, however, to around $70k by five years out. That's the difference from public interest, where you start at $35-40k and are lucky if you're at $50k by year five.

[Anonymous User]

School: HYS
Market(s): CA
Approximate class rank: Above median. I think.
Law review: Secondary Journal
Work experience: Yes, but unrelated to law
IP background: no
Summer Associate Position? 1L and 2L
Offered? Yes for both
Anything else that might have an impact? (diversity, etc. or whatever, really): Diversity
Screening Interviews: 5
Mass mails: 1
Callbacks received: 4 (accepted 2).
Offers: 1
How many firms just didn't get back with you with a rejection/callback?: 0
Clerkship Interview: N/A
Other: My 1L firm was in a market in which I didn't want to stay. I hated my 2L firm, although it was in the market I desired. Was definitely easier explaining why not 1L firm, but as long as I had a good answer for why not 2L firm without being too negative, things went fine.

[rayiner]

I know at least a couple of people at BU/BC who got V50 jobs in Boston as 3Ls.

But they held internships in a specific niche and/or got very lucky. They only have middling grades/ definitely not in top 1/3 or something.

This happens - but total crapshoot

Did they work for smaller firms as 2Ls? I'm a BC/BU 2L (Top 20% LR) who just struck out and am trying to figure out what to do next/ if I should just drop out now.

As a 3L top 20% at a T10 who has given up on the job search, I would say your best choice is to drop out. The opportunities after OCI for high paying jobs tend to only be available to people who SA'd at Biglaw.

Small Law also pays around 40k, not the 50-70k suggested. It's simple economics, there is an unlimited supply of law grads willing to do legal work at any price. In fact 40k is really generous of shitlaw, they could probably have a limitless pile of applicants for 25k.

As someone in even a better position than you with no chance of finding a legal job paying over 40k, I strongly suggest dropping out. This is based on my actual experience as a 3L T10 with top 20% grades, not as a TLSer speculating on what such a situation would be like.

{Assuming you're the anon looking into barista-ing...}

If you're still going to graduate, it's stupid to give up on your job search.

Look, you're not "a top 20% 3L at a T10." You're a "3L at a T10." Grades don't matter after 2L OCI, and you're in the same boat as your classmates who are below median. I'm not saying this to be mean, I'm saying this because as a 3L myself, I see people without jobs who are still inexplicably selective about their job search.

There is a world of law jobs out there besides big law. They don't care about grades, but they do care about attitude and personality. Your comments about looking into barista-ing suggests that you're not bringing the right attitude for these jobs. I'm not saying it's easy (it's brutal out there), but as a 3L at a T10 you're more well-positioned to get these jobs than other people. People at small shops will be genuinely impressed by the degree, and will give you an honest shot if you don't come across as someone who thinks the work is beneath them. Besides, what the hell else do you have to do for the next 6 months?

[Anonymous User]

School: T14
Market(s): Midwest
Approximate class rank: Top 20%-30%
Journal: Nope
Work experience:1 year, non-law related
IP background: No
Summer Associate Position? 2L
Offered? Nope - summer class was told at start of summer no offers were going out
Anything else that might have an impact? (diversity, etc. or whatever, really): was a transfer student, diverse
Screening Interviews: 3 from OCI
Mass mails: 50 + some symplicity stuffs.
Callbacks received: 0
Offers: 0
How many firms just didn't get back with you with a rejection/callback?: like 10 from the mass mails
Clerkship Interview: Nope
Other: Didn't get my 2L summer until late April of 2L year. Hopefully similar result this year for full time employ...

[Anonymous User]

School: T20 (transfer)
Market(s): CA, DC
Approximate class rank: Top half
Journal: EIC Secondary Journal
Work experience: significant, international business/ trade
IP background: No
Summer Associate Position? No, did Fed Gov.
Offered? Not possible for most gov positions
Anything else that might have an impact? (diversity, etc. or whatever, really):2nd Language, non-traditional (0ver 30)
Screening Interviews:7 from OCI
Mass mails: Approx 50 to DC and 30 to NY
Callbacks received: 0 from Mass mail 3 from OCI
Offers: 2
How many firms just didn't get back with you with a rejection/callback?: 3
Clerkship Interview: Nope
Other: I had 22 screeners and only 2 CB during 2l OCI. This year has been much better for me with 3 CB from 7 screeners and only 1 confirmed ding. I think a few things that helped were 1) I no longer had a transfer stigma since I now have grades and extra curriculars at my new school (even though my grades are meh); 2) Employers looking for 3Ls have specific needs and actually look more specifically at the candidate. I think there is more emphasis on a candidates specific credentials over process. During 2L screeners, most of the large firms had no use for my language skills or prior work experience. This year, I have had strong interest from lots of different types of employers (Gov, firms, business). 3) and maybe this was the biggest change, I stopped trying to fit the mold that I thought I was was suppose to fit. I decided to just say fuck it, I am who I am. I stopped trying to say the right things and started just being me and looking to have meaningful conversations. I was never much of a Bser, so being straight forward and to the point in interviews definitely made interviewing feel "better" imo.

I ended up taking a boutique firm job with big law perks and not the biglaw hours. last year of law school was a horrible experience, very thankful that the stars aligned.

[Borhas]

Okay, but what are the exit options from Starbucks? I know it's rough out there but there is some entry level work to be had, and you've got to seem more qualified than the sea of English BAs.

she doesn't want it, fuck it, lots of others will take it