UVA 2L with firm job lined up taking questions

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UVA 2L with firm job lined up taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:15 pm

I will answer any UVA related questions and I'll give my personal thoughts on the school. But I mainly made the thread to talk about employment and employment prospects. I finished 1L with a bottom 5-10 percent class rank, I did not have full time WE before law school, and I am not going into IP. I am a 2L going to a secondary market to work for a firm that is considered one of the top firms in the market. I am from the South and that's where my secondary market is located. My firm has close to a 100 percent offer rate so I'm assuming/hoping to work there after graduation. I will not share anymore info on my background than what is contained in this post and I will not take pm's. I hope that my responses can be of use to someone.

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Re: UVA 2L with firm job lined up taking questions

Postby c3pO4 » Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:18 pm

Is it NLJ 250?

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Re: UVA 2L with firm job lined up taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:21 pm

c3pO4 wrote:Is it NLJ 250?


Honestly, off the top of my head I'm not sure, but I'd lean towards yes. My office has about 200 attorneys. And to be frank that's not something I really pay attention to.

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Re: UVA 2L with firm job lined up taking questions

Postby joemoviebuff » Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:22 pm

What were your study habits like and why do you think the firm chose you?

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Re: UVA 2L with firm job lined up taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:29 pm

joemoviebuff wrote:What were your study habits like and why do you think the firm chose you?


First semester I studied at a level that a normal person would consider hard to very hard. Second semester I went full psycho. First semester I focused more on supplements, second semester I focused more on case reading and briefing. First semester I did very few practice exams. Second I did more but not many.

The firm chose me because I'm easier to hang around with than most UVA students with high grades, I'm from the South, and in the South UVA is looked at as being better than any school but Harvard/Yale. They actually mentioned how much they loved UVA and how incredible the school was. And I when I say mentioned I'm talking about practically every attorney being impressed with it, except for the few that attended Harvard etc. :D My personality was also commented on frequently by several attorneys.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: UVA 2L with firm job lined up taking questions

Postby c3pO4 » Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:30 pm

joemoviebuff wrote:What were your study habits like and why do you think the firm chose you?


Is this question, what study habits lead to bottom 5-10% at UVA law? Doesn't really seem like the point of this thread...

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Re: UVA 2L with firm job lined up taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:32 pm

c3pO4 wrote:
joemoviebuff wrote:What were your study habits like and why do you think the firm chose you?


Is this question, what study habits lead to bottom 5-10% at UVA law? Doesn't really seem like the point of this thread...


It's not, but as long people don't get too out of hand with the topic I'll answer questions about it.

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Re: UVA 2L with firm job lined up taking questions

Postby TA923 » Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
joemoviebuff wrote:What were your study habits like and why do you think the firm chose you?


First semester I studied at a level that a normal person would consider hard to very hard. Second semester I went full psycho. First semester I focused more on supplements, second semester I focused more on case reading and briefing. First semester I did very few practice exams. Second I did more but not many.

The firm chose me because I'm easier to hang around with than most UVA students with high grades, I'm from the South, and in the South UVA is looked at as being better than any school but Harvard/Yale. They actually mentioned how much they loved UVA and how incredible the school was. And I when I say mentioned I'm talking about practically every attorney being impressed with it, except for the few that attended Harvard etc. :D My personality was also commented on frequently by several attorneys.


Do you regret going "psycho" and ending up in the bottom 5-10% of your class?

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Re: UVA 2L with firm job lined up taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:36 pm

TA923 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
joemoviebuff wrote:What were your study habits like and why do you think the firm chose you?


First semester I studied at a level that a normal person would consider hard to very hard. Second semester I went full psycho. First semester I focused more on supplements, second semester I focused more on case reading and briefing. First semester I did very few practice exams. Second I did more but not many.

The firm chose me because I'm easier to hang around with than most UVA students with high grades, I'm from the South, and in the South UVA is looked at as being better than any school but Harvard/Yale. They actually mentioned how much they loved UVA and how incredible the school was. And I when I say mentioned I'm talking about practically every attorney being impressed with it, except for the few that attended Harvard etc. :D My personality was also commented on frequently by several attorneys.


Do you regret going "psycho" and ending up in the bottom 5-10% of your class?


It's funny that you ask that, because it raises a good point. I wouldn't say that I regret it, but the truth is that the way law school is set up, the amount of time you spend studying really doesn't matter beyond a certain point. Law school is a very strange form of academia where a lot of things come into play, when it comes to grades, that don't have much to do with your knowledge of the subject matter etc. It's an odd beast. The other thing is that most of the class goes psycho during 1L, so that really neturalizes the effect that studying intensely will have on your rank (remember that there is a forced curve).

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Re: UVA 2L with firm job lined up taking questions

Postby joemoviebuff » Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:38 pm

c3pO4 wrote:
joemoviebuff wrote:What were your study habits like and why do you think the firm chose you?


Is this question, what study habits lead to bottom 5-10% at UVA law? Doesn't really seem like the point of this thread...


What I was getting at was did he slack off, party too hard, etc. Doesn't appear so.

And it looks like personality goes a long way, which is good.

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Re: UVA 2L with firm job lined up taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:41 pm

joemoviebuff wrote:
c3pO4 wrote:
joemoviebuff wrote:What were your study habits like and why do you think the firm chose you?


Is this question, what study habits lead to bottom 5-10% at UVA law? Doesn't really seem like the point of this thread...


What I was getting at was did he slack off, party too hard, etc. Doesn't appear so.

And it looks like personality goes a long way, which is good.


You didn't specifically ask this question but I don't want you to be misled. To be frank, personality doesn't matter for NYC/DC firms (ignoring extremes). Firms in those markets, particularly NYC, are factories where students are viewed as a walking talking transcript. If that is what you are looking for out of law school, be prepared for their hiring model (1. Grades 2. School rank/prestige 3. High end WE).

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Re: UVA 2L with firm job lined up taking questions

Postby Mal Reynolds » Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:42 pm

Where would you say the rest of your class stands in regards to employment. Are most above median biglaw? How about the rest of your classmates below median?

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Re: UVA 2L with firm job lined up taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:46 pm

Mal Reynolds wrote:Where would you say the rest of your class stands in regards to employment. Are most above median biglaw? How about the rest of your classmates below median?



Not to be rude, but I cannot truly answer this question. It's not like people will volunteer all of their employment info and it's not like I know all 368 of us. However, of the people I do know, many of whom are below median, things are mixed. Those below median who are only willing to work in NYC/DC/Cali biglaw are generally dissapointed. But this is true even of some people I know at the median. Those at any rank who are willing to go to secondary markets, and who have ties to those markets, are generally doing OK. Those who are above median are fine period.

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Re: UVA 2L with firm job lined up taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
joemoviebuff wrote:
c3pO4 wrote:
joemoviebuff wrote:What were your study habits like and why do you think the firm chose you?


Is this question, what study habits lead to bottom 5-10% at UVA law? Doesn't really seem like the point of this thread...


What I was getting at was did he slack off, party too hard, etc. Doesn't appear so.

And it looks like personality goes a long way, which is good.


You didn't specifically ask this question but I don't want you to be misled. To be frank, personality doesn't matter for NYC/DC firms (ignoring extremes). Firms in those markets, particularly NYC, are factories where students are viewed as a walking talking transcript. If that is what you are looking for out of law school, be prepared for their hiring model (1. Grades 2. School rank/prestige 3. High end WE).


You meet with 4 to 5 attorneys, usually 2-3 partners during the callback phase. You need to gel with/or impress those 2/3 partners and to think your personality doesn't play a good part of the decision in NYC is absurd. Firms where I hit it off with partners, got offers, even though my grades were below their normal standards - DPW, Weil, Cleary & Kirkland (accepted at Kirkland).

Also, to mislead people into thinking personality goes a long way is also incorrect. It is a combination of all factors and no one factor can be determinative. Sometimes one may weigh more heavily than the other, but you can't be certain which will be the dominant one. Every callback is different, every firm is different. Everyone's experience will be different.

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Re: UVA 2L with firm job lined up taking questions

Postby holeinone600 » Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:57 pm

I'm currently a 1L at UVa law, from the South, and interested in returning there. Are you willing to be more specific on the city, firm, practice area, methods you used to get interviews (OGI only, mass mail, etc.), what you did for 1L summer? PM me if you'd rather, I'd really appreciate it.

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Re: UVA 2L with firm job lined up taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:57 pm

Also, to mislead people into thinking personality goes a long way is also incorrect. It is a combination of all factors and no one factor can be determinative. Sometimes one may weigh more heavily than the other, but you can't be certain which will be the dominant one. Every callback is different, every firm is different. Everyone's experience will be different.



Honestly your post is a bit confusing, but I will say this. I'm not arguing that personality doesn't matter at all, but like I said, at these big NYC firms it just isn't that big of a factor. If you have my grades and sterling personality, you still are not getting a firm job at a big NYC firm. Whereas in many of the secondary markets you have a legit shot, especially in the South.

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Re: UVA 2L with firm job lined up taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:03 pm

To the response regarding NYC hiring. I would disagree - I am below median at a Low Top 14, and will work at a V50 this summer in NYC. First semester was below median, second semester median. I would agree with OP that personality goes a long way (but, also applies to NYC IMO).

And, I also worked very hard both semesters.

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Re: UVA 2L with firm job lined up taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:04 pm

holeinone600 wrote:I'm currently a 1L at UVa law, from the South, and interested in returning there. Are you willing to be more specific on the city, firm, practice area, methods you used to get interviews (OGI only, mass mail, etc.), what you did for 1L summer? PM me if you'd rather, I'd really appreciate it.


I won't reveal the market but I'll give you advice.

1. Apply to Birmingham firms as a 1L. They hire a ton of 1Ls and they LOVE UVA. You can try the other Southern markets but they tend not to hire many 1Ls.

2. Apply to the USAO in whatever southern market you are interested in. They LOVE UVA students from the South and it looks good on your resume when you apply to Southern firms.

3. Mass mail Southern firms early in the summer, and make connections with attorneys in your Southern market of choice. The main way you do this is by working in that market as a 1L during the summer.

4. Bid Southern firms very high when OGI comes around. You want to interview with any and every one possible. You do not want to miss an interview with these firms.

5. Apply to firms via symplicity resume drop; people tend to forget to apply to firms this way.

6. Do a journal and moot court. Many Southern firms are not aware that it's much easier to get on these at UVA than at their local schools. At many/most of the schools these firms recruit from, you have to have top grades just to get on any journal or even moot court. This works to your advantage when people accustomed to hiring from regional Southern schools are looking at your resume.

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Re: UVA 2L with firm job lined up taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:To the response regarding NYC hiring. I would disagree - I am below median at a Low Top 14, and will work at a V50 this summer in NYC. First semester was below median, second semester median. I would agree with OP that personality goes a long way (but, also applies to NYC IMO).

And, I also worked very hard both semesters.


You are only barely below median. If you pull a 3.0 at UVA then you can probably forget NYC biglaw. That's just not our strength.

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Re: UVA 2L with firm job lined up taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:To the response regarding NYC hiring. I would disagree - I am below median at a Low Top 14, and will work at a V50 this summer in NYC. First semester was below median, second semester median. I would agree with OP that personality goes a long way (but, also applies to NYC IMO).

And, I also worked very hard both semesters.


You are only barely below median. If you pull a 3.0 at UVA then you can probably forget NYC biglaw. That's just not our strength.


First semester was 3.0, and second semester median. I guess the upward trend helped. But, I think my personality also helped, since people below median do struggle a lot. But I would agree that NYC selection is more grade oriented than in the South.

I have heard, however, that applicants from Top-14 schools have a harder time to crack into non-major markets than the major markets, since recruiters at these markets usually only consider non-top 14 applicants at the top of their class. Do you think this is true?

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Re: UVA 2L with firm job lined up taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:19 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:To the response regarding NYC hiring. I would disagree - I am below median at a Low Top 14, and will work at a V50 this summer in NYC. First semester was below median, second semester median. I would agree with OP that personality goes a long way (but, also applies to NYC IMO).

And, I also worked very hard both semesters.


You are only barely below median. If you pull a 3.0 at UVA then you can probably forget NYC biglaw. That's just not our strength.


First semester was 3.0, and second semester median. I guess the upward trend helped. But, I think my personality also helped, since people below median do struggle a lot. But I would agree that NYC selection is more grade oriented than in the South.

I have heard, however, that applicants from Top-14 schools have a harder time to crack into non-major markets than the major markets, since recruiters at these markets usually only consider non-top 14 applicants at the top of their class. Do you think this is true?



I do think that there is a lot of truth to this, but I also think that if you are FROM that secondary region you will still have a good chance if you can interview well and if you apply broadly enough. This was a hurdle I faced but by interviewing with as many firms as I could and by trying to sell myself on my non GPA qualities I did what I could to get over it.

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Re: UVA 2L with firm job lined up taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:23 pm

are you a urm?

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Re: UVA 2L with firm job lined up taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:are you a urm?


I am not the OP - But, am URM. In my opinion, URM status is almost irrelevant in OCI. In law school admissions, however, it is very very important.

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Re: UVA 2L with firm job lined up taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:are you a urm?


Like I said originally I have given all of the background info that I am willing to reveal in the first post. But I will say this, of my friends that are URM, I would say that they are actually doing WORSE than the class as a whole. As the previous poster stated, it is borderline irrelevant for hiring purposes. Basically I'm gathering that it works the same way as it does in other traditional white collar corporate fields.

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Re: UVA 2L with firm job lined up taking questions

Postby desertlaw » Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:41 am

I'm not sure I see the utility of this thread. The poster did everything that anyone on TLS would recommend for low-median grades: find secondary markets or smaller firms, play up your personality or any strengths that don't come from the grades, and hustle hustle hustle.

Congrats to the Origposter for getting your job. I'm glad when any other UVa student has success. I'm just not sure how this thread will benefit anyone in the future. Yes, it's possible to get a solid SA position without good grades if you're at a good school. But I thought we knew this. The OP's story might be more against the odds than typical, but it's not completely shocking.

Also, it needs to be said again that personality plays a HUGE factor in BigLaw NYC/DC/Cali firms. Grades open the door, but firms still have to sort through a bunch of different people. Talk to the people that are in the top 10-20% of the class, trying to get to DC, and have struggled mightily.




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