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Anonymous User wrote:I understand "shitlaw" is a term of convenience and it may not be particularly important to define it down to the last detail, but in this case I think it would help me. People talk about "shitlaw" in a lot of maybe useful ways around here, from the exit options to the treatment to the pay and prestige, to its affect on your resume, etc. When I'm reading through these other posts, I try to figure out how they apply to me and to this offer I have.

The one way I know that the firm is *not* shitlaw is that it isn't a sweatshop. Some have said shitlaw is when you work biglaw hours for less pay. In this case, the attorneys work a lot less hours that biglaw, but for a lot less pay. In other ways, the firm DOES seem to match up with shitlaw. There is a lot of plaintiff work, even a little bit (probably 2% of the firm's practice) of PI, plus a lot of real estate, probate, and some court-appointed and juvie work. That stuff is all associated with shitlaw, right?

Anyway, the firm pays about $55k to start in a low cost of living area. No bonuses, most associates make partner, and most do in 4-5 years. COL calculators for the areas say that equals about $120k in NYC (Manhattan) or $100k in NYC (Brooklyn), so the truth is maybe somewhere in the middle. At the same time, I'm skeptical that $55k ANYWHERE is really equal to $100k+ in NYC? I know things cost a lot in NYC, but that seems ridiculous. (Even if the main difference is an extra $2k per month in rent, that's just $24k per year (out of net pay, granted). I know NYC has a municipal tax too, but a $50k+ adjustment for COL seems extreme.) This firm is established (a century old) and the biggest firm in its small city.

My analysis basically is over at that point. I'm not sure what other people mean when they say "shitlaw," but I figure this offer is shitlaw or else maybe it's more like midlaw / boutique, or maybe it's parts of all three and it's just really hard to classify firms in small cities? Like biglaw / shitlaw distinction only applies in New York?

Again, not trying to be sophistic here, but with how much these terms are used here it could use some discussion. There are a few other threads about it but nothing particularly enlightening.

sellout wrote:I'm no shill for NYC at all, but you all should adjust for the fact that you don't need a car to live in Manhattan (or even Brooklyn or Jersey City/Hoboken) & that public transportation prices are about equal to those in Chicago (where I'm from).

AP-375 wrote:Dude,
Let me tell you about shitlaw. I spent about two weeks working as a 0L at a 2-attorney practice that had a utilitarian office in an nasty office park in the middle of the urban sprawl. There was an old, sleazy partner, who, when he wasn't looking at porn behind a closed door or interviewing young women desperate for jobs, spent his time yelling at the poor associate who found the job on Craigslist after graduating from a tier 4 with crappy grades and was making $20 an hour. Civil litigation of a wide range, but only the worst: i.e. contentious divorces, construction disputes, and repeat defense work of shady "businessmen."
This kind of job exists everywhere.
Your job sounds awesome.

Dude,
Let me tell you about shitlaw. I spent about two weeks working as a 0L at a 2-attorney practice that had a utilitarian office in an nasty office park in the middle of the urban sprawl. There was an old, sleazy partner, who, when he wasn't looking at porn behind a closed door or interviewing young women desperate for jobs, spent his time yelling at the poor associate who found the job on Craigslist after graduating from a tier 4 with crappy grades and was making $20 an hour. Civil litigation of a wide range, but only the worst: i.e. contentious divorces, construction disputes, and repeat defense work of shady "businessmen."
This kind of job exists everywhere.
Your job sounds awesome.