Starting salary for 1st year law professors?

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Starting salary for 1st year law professors?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:47 pm

What do you think starting professors make? If you had to give a range between a TTT and HYS, what would you say?

I'm thinking almost no one makes less than 100k and more than 150k; what do you think?

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Re: Starting salary for 1st year law professors?

Postby 03121202698008 » Fri Oct 21, 2011 4:03 pm

Michigan's salaries are public. One prof who was a SCOTUS clerk started (in 2007) at $150K. Another who was a BigLaw litigator and now teaches legal writing started (2007) at $62K.

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law4vus
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Re: Starting salary for 1st year law professors?

Postby law4vus » Fri Oct 21, 2011 4:05 pm

blowhard wrote:Michigan's salaries are public. One prof who was a SCOTUS clerk started (in 2007) at $150K. Another who was a BigLaw litigator and now teaches legal writing started (2007) at $62K.


I think Legal Writing teachers are on different plane than professors for the other classes (Torts, Contracts, etc). A lot of LRW teachers are also adjunct teachers who also work full time jobs.

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Re: Starting salary for 1st year law professors?

Postby 03121202698008 » Fri Oct 21, 2011 4:07 pm

law4vus wrote:
blowhard wrote:Michigan's salaries are public. One prof who was a SCOTUS clerk started (in 2007) at $150K. Another who was a BigLaw litigator and now teaches legal writing started (2007) at $62K.


I think Legal Writing teachers are on different plane than professors for the other classes (Torts, Contracts, etc). A lot of LRW teachers are also adjunct teachers who also work full time jobs.


Ours are full-time but I recognize they'd get paid less by default. My Crim Prof who teaches full-time but practices as well started at $108K in 2004.

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Re: Starting salary for 1st year law professors?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 21, 2011 4:14 pm

A lot of public schools have publicly available salary data. At my old school (Public T2), there was a new tenure track prof who was a HYS grad, in the middle of getting his PhD, making just about $100k on the nose.

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Re: Starting salary for 1st year law professors?

Postby sebastian0622 » Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:22 pm

Iowa's salaries are public. Some full-time (non LAWR) professors start as low as $80k or so, while Herb Hovenkamp makes over $400k if I remember correctly.

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Re: Starting salary for 1st year law professors?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:22 pm

For starting tenure track, I've heard as low as about $75k (T3 state school in the middle of nowhere). The private T2 up the street in a medium-sized city pays mid-$90s. (LRW is around $70k is memory serves.) My understanding is that the top tier schools pay up to $150k or so.

By the way, even the lowest-paid law professor at a school likely is making more than the highest paid arts, humanities and social sciences professors. (Hard science and engineering get more, but not as much as a law prof. Business profs are comparable.)

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Re: Starting salary for 1st year law professors?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 21, 2011 7:03 pm

Thanks for the info about public schools releasing the salaries.

I've been checking it out and it's quite interesting. How is it, though, that so many law professors have multiple jobs? I've heard of professors with dual appointments (full in law and full in humanities), full professorship and job with ABA, full professorship and full time litigation career, etc. How many classes do law professors teach, each semester?

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Re: Starting salary for 1st year law professors?

Postby 03121202698008 » Fri Oct 21, 2011 7:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Thanks for the info about public schools releasing the salaries.

I've been checking it out and it's quite interesting. How is it, though, that so many law professors have multiple jobs? I've heard of professors with dual appointments (full in law and full in humanities), full professorship and job with ABA, full professorship and full time litigation career, etc. How many classes do law professors teach, each semester?


Generally two. Maybe with an after-hours seminar at their house. A few famous ones only teach two every other semester. The real hours aren't in the classroom. They are researching/publishing (continually required for tenure), supervising student Notes, office hours, etc.

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Re: Starting salary for 1st year law professors?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 21, 2011 7:19 pm

Ah, that makes sense. Not too unlike other areas of academia where it's more about publications than teaching. That's a fantastic opportunity to have such flexibility to pursue other ventures.

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Re: Starting salary for 1st year law professors?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 21, 2011 7:28 pm

What is the GPA cutoff for law school professors?

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Re: Starting salary for 1st year law professors?

Postby 03121202698008 » Fri Oct 21, 2011 7:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What is the GPA cutoff for law school professors?


Whatever will get you a CoA clerkship. That's pretty much required. A ridiculous percentage have law review as well. I think I read somewhere like 85%+, even at T4s.

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Re: Starting salary for 1st year law professors?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:52 am

Whatever will get you a CoA clerkship. That's pretty much required. A ridiculous percentage have law review as well. I think I read somewhere like 85%+, even at T4s.


This isn't quite right. On the entry level market last year, "only" about 65% of new faculty hires had clerkships, and of course a good chunk of those were district court, bankrupcty or state court clerkships. Probably only about half of new professors had a COA clerkship. (Prawfsblawg did a fun hiring thread on the new hire statistics.) And LR is relatively unimportant, though a published student comment or note would be a plus.

The bottom line is that you need to publish to be a viable entry level candidate. Mostly in top 100 law reviews. How many articles will depend on your other credentials. A "typical" law professor candidate -- HSY (and Chicago, which places about as well as Harvard and Stanford per capita, though they all trail Yale by a good bit), magna-level grades, COA clerkship, 2-4 years at a V10 firm or DOJ -- will need one. People who deviate from that will need more, though adjustments are made for special factors like a PhD (+), VAP (+), teaching interest in underserved subject like commercial law (+), and more than 5 years of practice experience (-).

(For example, my resume looks like this: HSYC, district court clerkship, good-but-not-great grades, 5+ years practice experience split between a V20 firm and government, and interest in a neutral field [not property or commercial law, but not con law either]. I was told that I'd need two articles for a fighting chance, and three to be comfortable.)

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Re: Starting salary for 1st year law professors?

Postby Citizen Genet » Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:57 am

Anonymous User wrote: People who deviate from that will need more, though adjustments are made for special factors like a PhD (+), VAP (+), teaching interest in underserved subject like commercial law (+), and more than 5 years of practice experience (-).


Regarding practice experience as a negative: there is a caveat for federal government work. I think DOJ work tends to help one's resume as opposed to hurt it. At least that's my limited experience.

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Re: Starting salary for 1st year law professors?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:04 am

Last anon, fantastic post!

Yeah, I'm starting law school next year but my main focus is legal academia. I am hoping to boast the following:

HYS - at least median
Law Review or secondary law review
PhD
3 T100 articles
A book off of my dissertation that catches some attention
Either a teaching fellowship like the one at Chicago or a CoA

I figure this is something that I have to really be diligent about, as legal academia is not really something you fall into. You need to make a concerted effort to take the necessary steps in order to have a good chance.

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Re: Starting salary for 1st year law professors?

Postby 5ky » Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:01 am

Anonymous User wrote:Last anon, fantastic post!

Yeah, I'm starting law school next year but my main focus is legal academia. I am hoping to boast the following:

HYS - at least median
Law Review or secondary law review
PhD
3 T100 articles
A book off of my dissertation that catches some attention
Either a teaching fellowship like the one at Chicago or a CoA

I figure this is something that I have to really be diligent about, as legal academia is not really something you fall into. You need to make a concerted effort to take the necessary steps in order to have a good chance.


you need to relax




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