financial reward for ten years of public interest work

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whuts4lunch
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financial reward for ten years of public interest work

Postby whuts4lunch » Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:06 pm

Say someone paid for law school without taking out loans. That person then decided that he wanted to work for the government and goes on to work for the government for 10 years. Would there be any way for that person to collect a bonus for having worked those ten years in public service, since that person was unable to receive a bonus towards his student loans? I imagine there isn't, but I am curious.

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Ty Webb
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Re: financial reward for ten years of public interest work

Postby Ty Webb » Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:40 pm

whuts4lunch wrote:Say someone paid for law school without taking out loans. That person then decided that he wanted to work for the government and goes on to work for the government for 10 years. Would there be any way for that person to collect a bonus for having worked those ten years in public service, since that person was unable to receive a bonus towards his student loans? I imagine there isn't, but I am curious.


You serious, Clark?

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: financial reward for ten years of public interest work

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:34 pm

IBR isn't supposed to be an enticement to do work you didn't want to do; it's supposed to let people do work they want, but couldn't otherwise afford, to do.

Anyway, right or wrong, the answer is no.

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quiver
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Re: financial reward for ten years of public interest work

Postby quiver » Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:40 pm

The feeling that you're making a difference in the world while actually using the degree you spent three years obtaining?

Geist13
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Re: financial reward for ten years of public interest work

Postby Geist13 » Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:58 pm

It's not a reward. Say you're actually intelligent and do well in law school. You took out major loans to go 175k. The only reason you went was to work in some nonprofit. There's a legitimate concern that you literally can't work in the nonprofit you want and pay off your debt. The only serious way to service that debt is private practice. So to allow you to do the service you actually want to do (which is in the public's best interest), we forgive your debt. Its a policy decision. We want talented lawyers who actually want to work in public service to be able to do so. So we develop a program that lets them service their debt and help the public, because they wouldn't be able to otherwise. Without the program there's legitimate worry that the only lawyers who will enter the public sector are the shitty ones. Note, however, that with the advent of the new shitty legal market, the public sector would be able to draw top talent even without loan forgiveness, because there's no jobs.

GMVarun
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Re: financial reward for ten years of public interest work

Postby GMVarun » Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:04 pm

If you know you want to do PI work, and you enter law school with this goal, and go to a school where this is a possibility (that is, a significant portion of this law school does not end up unemployed or in non-PI work), you have a very strong incentive to take out federal loans for exactly this reason. Even if you do have the money (which very few law students have), why would you pay for it? If anything, again assuming you had the money, you would still take the loans for three years, and pay them off upon not finding a job or getting a non-PI job upon graduation. Of course, you do not get a reward, but given the incentives, it works the same way.

I think, however, some school LRAPs account for your assets, and so you would likely not qualify for the additional benefit of the school's LRAP. I do not think the federal program has such stipulations, but have not looked too deeply into it. But like others have said, this is dumb way of looking at it (especially given the risk of getting and keeping such a job for 10 years to begin with).
Last edited by GMVarun on Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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A'nold
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Re: financial reward for ten years of public interest work

Postby A'nold » Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:06 pm

This is one of the top 10 weirdest threads I've ever seen on here and I've been on this site for many, many years....... :?

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IAFG
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Re: financial reward for ten years of public interest work

Postby IAFG » Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:16 pm

Yes but only if you didn't do OCI and strike out.

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leobowski
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Re: financial reward for ten years of public interest work

Postby leobowski » Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:57 pm

You don't sound like someone who should be in PI. It's not very carrot/stick motivated work.

luthersloan
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Re: financial reward for ten years of public interest work

Postby luthersloan » Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:06 pm

Like, having all your loans paid off by the government (or by your school via an LRAP program) is a huge bonus, it is just discharge of indebtedness, not cash. So, like there is a reward. I mean, you get to help people too, but who cares about that.

Anonymous User
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Re: financial reward for ten years of public interest work

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:25 pm

Also, even assuming 200K in law debt at a 6.8% rate, that is a total payment stream of ~275K. That works out to 27K a year from LRAP. Very nice if you are doing work you love. But you can find work that pays 30K more than public interest salaries in many instances.

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Re: financial reward for ten years of public interest work

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:13 pm

Your reward is being able to have a spouse who works, property, or savings without fucking over your loan repayment assistance for 10 years.

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whuts4lunch
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Re: financial reward for ten years of public interest work

Postby whuts4lunch » Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:21 pm

Also, even assuming 200K in law debt at a 6.8% rate, that is a total payment stream of ~275K. That works out to 27K a year from LRAP. Very nice if you are doing work you love. But you can find work that pays 30K more than public interest salaries in many instances. - Anonymous

GMVarun wrote:If anything, again assuming you had the money, you would still take the loans for three years, and pay them off upon not finding a job or getting a non-PI job upon graduation. Of course, you do not get a reward, but given the incentives, it works the same way.


The 27k/year benefit is what I was thinking of.

Yea GMVarun, 100% agree. I suppose that, if while the person in question was a student, he decided he wanted to do public interest, he would probably take out loans for the remaining cost of law school, but not until he is certain that he wants to do public interest.

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whuts4lunch
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Re: financial reward for ten years of public interest work

Postby whuts4lunch » Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Your reward is being able to have a spouse who works, property, or savings without fucking over your loan repayment assistance for 10 years.


You can't benefit from LRAP working for the government if you have any of those things? Wow, well in that case...

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A'nold
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Re: financial reward for ten years of public interest work

Postby A'nold » Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Your reward is being able to have a spouse who works, property, or savings without fucking over your loan repayment assistance for 10 years.

I could be wrong but I don't think the majority of those things are true. Isn't it purely income based and tops out at a certain percentage of gross? I don't see why having a savings would affect that.

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Re: financial reward for ten years of public interest work

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:45 pm

this thread reminded me...

i have a friend at my t10 that struck out at oci and is resigned to land somewhere as a PD. i have not looked into LRAP/IBR stuff, but can he take out the max loans and live large (even save some for after lawlschool) and then rely on LRAP/IBR to totally repay his loans if he works PI for ten years? am i missing something here?

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A'nold
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Re: financial reward for ten years of public interest work

Postby A'nold » Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:this thread reminded me...

i have a friend at my t10 that struck out at oci and is resigned to land somewhere as a PD. i have not looked into LRAP/IBR stuff, but can he take out the max loans and live large (even save some for after lawlschool) and then rely on LRAP/IBR to totally repay his loans if he works PI for ten years? am i missing something here?

If they are government backed loans then any amount will be forgiven.

Edit to add: You friend had better not think of a PD position as a fallback and just assume they will drool over his t10 education....PD folks are some of the hardest people to convince to hire you from what I understand and budget cuts have made that more so. At my mid-sized county this year I worked with many PD's that were "interns" there even though they had graduated a year ago and are still waiting to get in.

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Re: financial reward for ten years of public interest work

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:51 pm

thanks A'nold! good to hear.. except this kid likes to play cards/shoot dice a little too often so i may not tell him the news for his kneecaps' benefit.

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A'nold
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Re: financial reward for ten years of public interest work

Postby A'nold » Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:thanks A'nold! good to hear.. except this kid likes to play cards/shoot dice a little too often so i may not tell him the news for his kneecaps' benefit.


Also, please note that I am not an IBR expert and I could be wrong about everything I say, lol.

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leobowski
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Re: financial reward for ten years of public interest work

Postby leobowski » Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:42 pm

A'nold wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Your reward is being able to have a spouse who works, property, or savings without fucking over your loan repayment assistance for 10 years.

I could be wrong but I don't think the majority of those things are true. Isn't it purely income based and tops out at a certain percentage of gross? I don't see why having a savings would affect that.



Adjusted Gross Income under IBR+PSLF is based on you+ spouse's income (if you are married and file a joint tax return).

http://studentaid.ed.gov/PORTALSWebApp/ ... ay.jsp#ICR

Edit: also check out the table here: http://studentaid.ed.gov/PORTALSWebApp/ ... BRPlan.jsp

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Re: financial reward for ten years of public interest work

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:27 pm

A'nold wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Your reward is being able to have a spouse who works, property, or savings without fucking over your loan repayment assistance for 10 years.

I could be wrong but I don't think the majority of those things are true. Isn't it purely income based and tops out at a certain percentage of gross? I don't see why having a savings would affect that.


School LRAP programs take all of these into account, and you basically have to live like a student perpetually until your loans are paid off. IBR, I believe, only takes spousal income into account.

forty-two
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Re: financial reward for ten years of public interest work

Postby forty-two » Thu Oct 20, 2011 7:07 pm

leobowski wrote:
A'nold wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Your reward is being able to have a spouse who works, property, or savings without fucking over your loan repayment assistance for 10 years.

I could be wrong but I don't think the majority of those things are true. Isn't it purely income based and tops out at a certain percentage of gross? I don't see why having a savings would affect that.



Adjusted Gross Income under IBR+PSLF is based on you+ spouse's income (if you are married and file a joint tax return).

http://studentaid.ed.gov/PORTALSWebApp/ ... ay.jsp#ICR

Edit: also check out the table here: http://studentaid.ed.gov/PORTALSWebApp/ ... BRPlan.jsp


True, but it's only based off of your income if you are married and file separate tax returns. Sorry, there's just a lot of misinformation going around about the program, and I don't want people to think they can't get married/have a life for a decade after graduation.

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leobowski
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Re: financial reward for ten years of public interest work

Postby leobowski » Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:39 pm

nvm.

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A'nold
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Re: financial reward for ten years of public interest work

Postby A'nold » Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:46 pm

forty-two wrote:
leobowski wrote:
A'nold wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Your reward is being able to have a spouse who works, property, or savings without fucking over your loan repayment assistance for 10 years.

I could be wrong but I don't think the majority of those things are true. Isn't it purely income based and tops out at a certain percentage of gross? I don't see why having a savings would affect that.



Adjusted Gross Income under IBR+PSLF is based on you+ spouse's income (if you are married and file a joint tax return).

http://studentaid.ed.gov/PORTALSWebApp/ ... ay.jsp#ICR

Edit: also check out the table here: http://studentaid.ed.gov/PORTALSWebApp/ ... BRPlan.jsp


True, but it's only based off of your income if you are married and file separate tax returns. Sorry, there's just a lot of misinformation going around about the program, and I don't want people to think they can't get married/have a life for a decade after graduation.

This is what I meant to say but couldn't seem to say it coherently.

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A'nold
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Re: financial reward for ten years of public interest work

Postby A'nold » Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:46 pm

.




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