Below Median At CCN Forum

[cubbiesyear]

It's apparent that below median at MVP on down is dicey at best. How are those below median at CCN doing this year? Last year? Over fifty percent get biglaw, yes, but what about those who don't get it and still want firm work? How difficult is it to score a firm job (midlaw?) that pays at or near six figures from below median at ccn?

I ask because I'm having a very difficult time deciding whether or not I should switch my RD app to ED at Chicago, and I don't want to be totally screwed if I get to law school and can't get median despite all my effort.

[Anonymous User]

It's apparent that below median at MVP on down is dicey at best. How are those below median at CCN doing this year? Last year? Over fifty percent get biglaw, yes, but what about those who don't get it and still want firm work? How difficult is it to score a firm job (midlaw?) that pays at or near six figures from below median at ccn?

I ask because I'm having a very difficult time deciding whether or not I should switch my RD app to ED at Chicago, and I don't want to be totally screwed if I get to law school and can't get median despite all my effort.

Below median is fine for the most part at Penn. I only know one or two guys without SAs.

P.S. Law school is dicey at best.

[ExAnt3]

median/below median at cls are donig well (anecdotal evidence). median is somewhere between a B/B+. I know several people with 1-2 B+s and the rest B's with biglaw offers. On the other hand, I know people with almost straight B+s with nada.

[Anonymous User]

1L a Chicago here, and every 2L I've talked to has a biglaw SA next summer. Maybe I'm only talking to smart people, but people seem to be doing fine for themselves.

Except for one guy I know (who probably doesn't interview well), the 3Ls I've talked to have either offers or federal clerkships. Granted, I don't know quite as many of them.

[Anonymous User]

NYU 2L. Hard to say because I don't know people's grades to much specificity, but my friends who I gather are around median or below have generally been able to find something, though it is a bit touch and go. My sense is around median, you are getting to the danger zone where things get unpredictable; you're likely to get a number of callbacks, but if you're a fine but not outstanding candidate (as far as work experience, personality, etc.), you could end up with 3 or 4 offers, or getting that one offer you really need, or striking out altogether; a lot of it is dumb luck at that point.

Overall, the biggest surprise has been that grades don't seem remotely dispositive to your prospects; people way over- and underperform their GPAs, though I think underperformance is usually due to a clear lack of interest in private practice.

[Anonymous User]

Overall, the biggest surprise has been that grades don't seem remotely dispositive to your prospects; people way over- and underperform their GPAs

THIS

[Anonymous User]

totally depends upon the market.

[Anonymous User]

A few of my NYU friends are around median, and they all have jobs lined up. Though the sample size isn't too big.

[FlightoftheEarls]

Below median is fine for the most part at Penn. I only know one or two guys without SAs.

This is just false. Consider what you wrote and what it actually means. There is an enormous gulf between what you are claiming to know and what, in all likelihood, you actually meant to write.

[Anonymous User]

1L a Chicago here, and every 2L I've talked to has a biglaw SA next summer. Maybe I'm only talking to smart people, but people seem to be doing fine for themselves.

Do you really want to ED to a school where your classmates say douchey stuff like this about you on the internet? There are a lot of Chicago 2Ls at median without offers, and some who didn't get any cbs from OCI. Maybe they haven't sought out this so-informed 1L to share their ineptitude and devastation, but there are several offer-less 2Ls out there.

[azntwice]

CLS seems to be doing pretty well. I know two people who didn't get offers from EIP, but vast majority of folks did well in getting some kind of V offer. The two people aforementioned had all Bs, or more than one B-.

[Anonymous User]

1L a Chicago here, and every 2L I've talked to has a biglaw SA next summer. Maybe I'm only talking to smart people, but people seem to be doing fine for themselves.

Except for one guy I know (who probably doesn't interview well), the 3Ls I've talked to have either offers or federal clerkships. Granted, I don't know quite as many of them.

2L @ Chicago here. You sound like an insufferable asshole. I have friends who are "smart" w/o jobs (from OCI or otherwise) and I know quite a few 3Ls w/o offers or federal clerkships.

[Renzo]

1L a Chicago here, and every 2L I've talked to has a biglaw SA next summer. Maybe I'm only talking to smart people, but people seem to be doing fine for themselves.

Except for one guy I know (who probably doesn't interview well), the 3Ls I've talked to have either offers or federal clerkships. Granted, I don't know quite as many of them.

2L @ Chicago here. You sound like an insufferable asshole. I have friends who are "smart" w/o jobs (from OCI or otherwise) and I know quite a few 3Ls w/o offers or federal clerkships.

I must apologize to you, anonymous poster. Because I read the first asshat anon. post and thought to myself, "Typical. That's just the kind of jerk thing I would expect a UChi student to say." Stereotyping is wrong, and I'm sorry.

[Anonymous User]

I wouldn't really trust anecdote of "Oh I don't know anyone who struck out". People don't tend to be forthcoming and open about it when they strike out. I've heard that around 70% of those who do OCI will get an offer, and another 30% will not, but that might be incorrect.

[cubbiesyear]

I wouldn't really trust anecdote of "Oh I don't know anyone who struck out". People don't tend to be forthcoming and open about it when they strike out. I've heard that around 70% of those who do OCI will get an offer, and another 30% will not, but that might be incorrect.

thanks for the input everyone.

I guess my question would then be are those 30% (i'm assuming this number is roughly correct?) able find firm work (midlaw, not-quite-market type jobs)? What do they generally do?

[Anonymous User]

I wouldn't really trust anecdote of "Oh I don't know anyone who struck out". People don't tend to be forthcoming and open about it when they strike out. I've heard that around 70% of those who do OCI will get an offer, and another 30% will not, but that might be incorrect.

thanks for the input everyone.

I guess my question would then be are those 30% (i'm assuming this number is roughly correct?) able find firm work (midlaw, not-quite-market type jobs)? What do they generally do?

listen, no school with the possible exception of Yale is really a 100% bet these days. read through some of the employment threads and even a few people below median at harvard won't get jobs. that said, Chicago is a relatively safe bet because of their reputation and the fact that they have a relatively smaller class sizes than many of their peers, so firms seem to be more willing to dig deeper into their class. that said, i base that only on anecdotal evidence i've gleaned from talking to people and reading some of the threads in the employment forum from this year. there are most assuredly people at or below median who will strike out. the legal economy's just not that good. but it will be marginally safer, IMO, going to schools with smaller class sizes (i.e. Chi, Cornell, Penn) then it will be going to schools with much larger ones (i.e., Columbia, NYU, Mich).

[Anonymous User]

Students at Duke are doing really well overall

[Anonymous User]

I wouldn't really trust anecdote of "Oh I don't know anyone who struck out". People don't tend to be forthcoming and open about it when they strike out. I've heard that around 70% of those who do OCI will get an offer, and another 30% will not, but that might be incorrect.

thanks for the input everyone.

I guess my question would then be are those 30% (i'm assuming this number is roughly correct?) able find firm work (midlaw, not-quite-market type jobs)? What do they generally do?

Apply anywhere, everywhere, even into other fields (like consulting). Some spend 2L summer in a public interest job and then continue on to a public interest job from there. I don't have a better answer because of the 3Ls I know of/have heard of striking out, some are still looking. Also, I'm a HLS 1L speaking here.

OP, what are your numbers? That might give us a better idea of whether you should be ED'ing to Chicago, or waiting to see if you can get money offers.

[Anonymous User]

Again -- I say it depends on the market. Of course kids at NYU and CLS are doing well; they disproportionately target NYC. Same with Duke and Penn. Northwestern and Chicago put either a plurality or majority, depending upon the year, in Chicago which is a very challenged market.

[Anonymous User]

Below median is fine for the most part at Penn. I only know one or two guys without SAs.

This is just false. Consider what you wrote and what it actually means. There is an enormous gulf between what you are claiming to know and what, in all likelihood, you actually meant to write.

N ≤ .05

U mad?

[JollyGreenGiant]

1L a Chicago here, and every 2L I've talked to has a biglaw SA next summer. Maybe I'm only talking to smart people, but people seem to be doing fine for themselves.

Except for one guy I know (who probably doesn't interview well), the 3Ls I've talked to have either offers or federal clerkships. Granted, I don't know quite as many of them.

Please tell me this is someone using the anon feature to pose as a Chicago 1L.

[Anonymous User]

To be fair, Duke students are having success in Texas, DC, and the South as well as NYC and students' home markets. I think NYC is not necessarily the reason why people are doing well here. Chicago could definitely be a reason why the Chi schools have problems.

[bdubs]

Below median is fine for the most part at Penn. I only know one or two guys without SAs.

This is just false. Consider what you wrote and what it actually means. There is an enormous gulf between what you are claiming to know and what, in all likelihood, you actually meant to write.

N ≤ .05

U mad?

LOL, statistics fail.

[Anonymous User]

law students are risk-aversive, but you can't avoid every risk and still go to law school. If you are below median anywhere, you are likely fucked. Even if you are above median, you could be fucked. There are people at CCNs who are top 30% and unemployed. You could also be just fine no matter where you go. The better the school, the less likely you are to be fucked (everyone knows that), and the harder you work/less socially awkward you are/better work experience you have, the better off you'll be. There is no formula to avoiding being fucked by the economy though, and TLS can't tell you if ED at Chi will lead you to being $200,000 in debt and unemployed (it might).

[Anonymous User]

Below median is fine for the most part at Penn. I only know one or two guys without SAs.

This is just false. Consider what you wrote and what it actually means. There is an enormous gulf between what you are claiming to know and what, in all likelihood, you actually meant to write.

N ≤ .05

U mad?

LOL, statistics fail.

Must suck to be an old fogie without the ability to detect sarcasm.