Urgent Advice Please

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Which Firm?

Dechert (NY)
41
80%
Wildman Harrold (Edwards Wildman)
10
20%
 
Total votes: 51

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Urgent Advice Please

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:03 pm

I have an offer from Dechert (NY). I also have an offer from Wildman Harrold in Chicago (now called Edwards Wildman after just merging with Edwards Angell in Boston). I grew up in Chicago, and would prefer to be in Chicago, but I am a bit concerned about the future of Wildman. In 2009 they rescinded a bunch of their SA offers, and with this new merger I am unsure what prospects will be like there. Other considerations include COL, which is heavily toward Chicago (although the pay difference between the firms probably closes the COL difference), and the exit options (Dechert I presume). I am (tentatively) interested in lit - not sure which way that cuts. For purposes here, assume I like both of the firms equally in terms of the vibe/feel.

So, does anyone have any information on Wildman, and where this new merger leaves them? I would like to be by family/friends in Chicago, but if my career would be significantly better off being in NYC for some amount of time, then I am alright with that.

I need to make my decision in the next few days, so any advice would be appreciated.

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Re: Urgent Advice Please

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:12 pm

IMO Dechert is a no-brainer here. Despite the other preferences, giving up the exit options afforded you by a V100 firm like Dechert and the relative security of Dechert over the other firm you are considering would be foolish. Think about your career in the long run: In a few years you can lateral or look for an in-house job in Chicago and your experience will help you a lot. I know COL in NY is painful - but these are the years in which to invest in your future. Even though it sounds like you have ties to Chi-- there are shuttles between the two cities. You can get there easily from NY. I would just do it for a few years if I were you.

Also, Does Dechert have a Chicago office? I feel like they have an office everywhere. That's also a possibility to keep in mind.

tlstlstls73
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Re: Urgent Advice Please

Postby tlstlstls73 » Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:13 pm

Friend, go to Dechert and don't look back. If you are from Chicago you won't mind (and probably will even love) NYC. Eventually, after you work hard and pay off your loans, you can move home as an experienced biglaw attorney should you so desire. Or you will just stay in NYC which is objectively a great city!

lawschoolgrapedme
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Re: Urgent Advice Please

Postby lawschoolgrapedme » Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote: I grew up in Chicago, and would prefer to be in Chicago, but I am a bit concerned about the future of Wildman. In 2009 they rescinded a bunch of their SA offers, and with this new merger I am unsure what prospects will be like there.


Thats all you need to think about. I get the hint you want Chicago, but would you rather be employed in Biglaw in NY or potentially unemployed watching the bears choke like they will soon enough this time next year?

CanadianWolf
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Re: Urgent Advice Please

Postby CanadianWolf » Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:06 pm

My understanding is that you wont see friends or family while working for either firm during your first few years other than during major holidays---and that's what airports & Amtrak are for. :D

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JusticeHarlan
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Re: Urgent Advice Please

Postby JusticeHarlan » Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:20 pm

tlstlstls73 wrote: If you are from Chicago you won't mind (and probably will even love) NYC. [. . .] Or you will just stay in NYC which is objectively a great city!

IBRayiner.

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Blindmelon
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Re: Urgent Advice Please

Postby Blindmelon » Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:IMO Dechert is a no-brainer here. Despite the other preferences, giving up the exit options afforded you by a V100 firm like Dechert and the relative security of Dechert over the other firm you are considering would be foolish. Think about your career in the long run: In a few years you can lateral or look for an in-house job in Chicago and your experience will help you a lot. I know COL in NY is painful - but these are the years in which to invest in your future. Even though it sounds like you have ties to Chi-- there are shuttles between the two cities. You can get there easily from NY. I would just do it for a few years if I were you.

Also, Does Dechert have a Chicago office? I feel like they have an office everywhere. That's also a possibility to keep in mind.


This is the only group of people that would talk up the exit options of Dechert over EA Wildman, whatever the heck. Dechert is a solid firm, but its not a Chicago firm. Your "exit options" in Chicago would be far superior at the new cluster-whatever than from Dechert. If you want to be in Chicago, then work in Chicago. There you will get the contacts you need to one day move out into something else. Going from NYC -> Chicago will not be a smooth ride.

How bad is the no-offer situation at EAWHasdsadsaddsafdsafa? If its that bad, then Dechert may be the safer bet.

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Re: Urgent Advice Please

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:21 pm

Blindmelon wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:IMO Dechert is a no-brainer here. Despite the other preferences, giving up the exit options afforded you by a V100 firm like Dechert and the relative security of Dechert over the other firm you are considering would be foolish. Think about your career in the long run: In a few years you can lateral or look for an in-house job in Chicago and your experience will help you a lot. I know COL in NY is painful - but these are the years in which to invest in your future. Even though it sounds like you have ties to Chi-- there are shuttles between the two cities. You can get there easily from NY. I would just do it for a few years if I were you.

Also, Does Dechert have a Chicago office? I feel like they have an office everywhere. That's also a possibility to keep in mind.


This is the only group of people that would talk up the exit options of Dechert over EA Wildman, whatever the heck. Dechert is a solid firm, but its not a Chicago firm. Your "exit options" in Chicago would be far superior at the new cluster-whatever than from Dechert. If you want to be in Chicago, then work in Chicago. There you will get the contacts you need to one day move out into something else. Going from NYC -> Chicago will not be a smooth ride.

How bad is the no-offer situation at EAWHasdsadsaddsafdsafa? If its that bad, then Dechert may be the safer bet.


OP here. Dechert does not have a Chicago office.

As to how bad the no-offer situation is at Wildman: I wish I knew. In 2009, 14 of the 17 summers got offers, but 10 of those 14 offers were rescinded. In 2010, they took 3 summers and 2 began working (unclear if all 3 were offered and one didnt accept, or if only 2 were offered at all). NALP says they expect to take 4 summers this year. So, maybe they just miscalculated the recession and it was a one time thing - I just don't know. The new merger complicates things even further...

lawschoolgrapedme
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Re: Urgent Advice Please

Postby lawschoolgrapedme » Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:56 pm

Blindmelon wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:IMO Dechert is a no-brainer here. Despite the other preferences, giving up the exit options afforded you by a V100 firm like Dechert and the relative security of Dechert over the other firm you are considering would be foolish. Think about your career in the long run: In a few years you can lateral or look for an in-house job in Chicago and your experience will help you a lot. I know COL in NY is painful - but these are the years in which to invest in your future. Even though it sounds like you have ties to Chi-- there are shuttles between the two cities. You can get there easily from NY. I would just do it for a few years if I were you.

Also, Does Dechert have a Chicago office? I feel like they have an office everywhere. That's also a possibility to keep in mind.


This is the only group of people that would talk up the exit options of Dechert over EA Wildman, whatever the heck. Dechert is a solid firm, but its not a Chicago firm. Your "exit options" in Chicago would be far superior at the new cluster-whatever than from Dechert. If you want to be in Chicago, then work in Chicago. There you will get the contacts you need to one day move out into something else. Going from NYC -> Chicago will not be a smooth ride.

How bad is the no-offer situation at EAWHasdsadsaddsafdsafa? If its that bad, then Dechert may be the safer bet.


False. Dechert would place better - partners know dechert, just as well as they know whoever that is if it is local. Who do you think they'd rather have? (they'd - I like that).

Renzo
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Re: Urgent Advice Please

Postby Renzo » Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:35 pm

lawschoolgrapedme wrote:
False. Dechert would place better - partners know dechert, just as well as they know whoever that is if it is local. Who do you think they'd rather have? (they'd - I like that).


An attorney licensed to practice in their state, that's who they'd rather have.

OP: It all comes down to how bad you want to be in Chicago. Post-merger law firms can be crazy places, so there's some risk to that option. But, if you want to live and practice in Chicago, maybe the riskier option is better.

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Re: Urgent Advice Please

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:44 pm

Renzo wrote:
lawschoolgrapedme wrote:
False. Dechert would place better - partners know dechert, just as well as they know whoever that is if it is local. Who do you think they'd rather have? (they'd - I like that).


An attorney licensed to practice in their state, that's who they'd rather have.

OP: It all comes down to how bad you want to be in Chicago. Post-merger law firms can be crazy places, so there's some risk to that option. But, if you want to live and practice in Chicago, maybe the riskier option is better.


OP here. With regard to the licensing - NY and IL have reciprocity in their bar as far as I understand. I presume there are still some hoops to go through, but are those hoops really going to make more of a difference than the difference in prestige between the two firms?

Renzo
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Re: Urgent Advice Please

Postby Renzo » Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Renzo wrote:
lawschoolgrapedme wrote:
False. Dechert would place better - partners know dechert, just as well as they know whoever that is if it is local. Who do you think they'd rather have? (they'd - I like that).


An attorney licensed to practice in their state, that's who they'd rather have.

OP: It all comes down to how bad you want to be in Chicago. Post-merger law firms can be crazy places, so there's some risk to that option. But, if you want to live and practice in Chicago, maybe the riskier option is better.


OP here. With regard to the licensing - NY and IL have reciprocity in their bar as far as I understand. I presume there are still some hoops to go through, but are those hoops really going to make more of a difference than the difference in prestige between the two firms?


Bar reciprocity is important, but there's more advantage to practicing in a jurisdiction than just that, like the ability to build a professional network. Again, I can't say one is a better choice than the other, and maybe the ease of getting reciprocity would tip it for you, but that's a personal call.

RyanJM
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Re: Urgent Advice Please

Postby RyanJM » Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:02 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Renzo wrote:
lawschoolgrapedme wrote:
False. Dechert would place better - partners know dechert, just as well as they know whoever that is if it is local. Who do you think they'd rather have? (they'd - I like that).


An attorney licensed to practice in their state, that's who they'd rather have.

OP: It all comes down to how bad you want to be in Chicago. Post-merger law firms can be crazy places, so there's some risk to that option. But, if you want to live and practice in Chicago, maybe the riskier option is better.


OP here. With regard to the licensing - NY and IL have reciprocity in their bar as far as I understand. I presume there are still some hoops to go through, but are those hoops really going to make more of a difference than the difference in prestige between the two firms?


Definitely other considerations, too, but you can get the detailed intel on reciprocity issues here: SPAM REMOVED.

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Re: Urgent Advice Please

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:07 pm

I would be VERY wary of Wildman. The firm has been incredibly unstable the last couple years and I have heard from people inside the firm that they essentially know nothing about how the firm will change post-merger and that they are all nervous about potential instability / top-down changes.

If you want to work at a big firm in Chicago, Wildman will not help, they are the lowest rung on the ladder. Dechert undoubtedly has better exit options to big Chicago firms. If you're looking to move in-house or to a small firm, then Wildman might be more beneficial.

The one clear advantage of Wildman is the hours, associates will undoubtedly bill fewer hours than at Dechert, though of course they don't pay market either.

I think this is a no-brainer.

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NinerFan
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Re: Urgent Advice Please

Postby NinerFan » Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:04 am

Re: Rescinded offers/no offers in 2009 - a lot of firms were rescinding or no offering in '09. I wouldn't take that to mean too much. Hell, Latham "Lathamed" a bunch of people and people are still lining up to work for them. Morgan Lewis no offered 72% of their class in '09. Chadbourne rescinded 11 offers.

Above the Law is full of old stories of people getting deferred or having offers rescinded from 09. If the economy crashes you're probably in trouble regardless of which of those 2 you choose.

See: --LinkRemoved--

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Re: Urgent Advice Please

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:24 pm

there have been rumors that dechert NY has not been doing great- they no offered a lot of SAs in 2012 at a time when other firms were not doing it as much.

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Re: Urgent Advice Please

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:there have been rumors that dechert NY has not been doing great- they no offered a lot of SAs in 2012 at a time when other firms were not doing it as much.


I summered at Dechert this year. As far as I know, everyone in all offices got offered.

In regards to Chicago, Dechert does have an office there. I believe it is only general lit. Someone from last summer was able to transfer there after getting an offer.

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Re: Urgent Advice Please

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:there have been rumors that dechert NY has not been doing great- they no offered a lot of SAs in 2012 at a time when other firms were not doing it as much.


I summered at Dechert this year. As far as I know, everyone in all offices got offered.

In regards to Chicago, Dechert does have an office there. I believe it is only general lit. Someone from last summer was able to transfer there after getting an offer.


This is demonstrably untrue. NALP shows that at least 4 people in NYC got no-offered last year. 3/21 at Philadelphia. 1/8 at DC. That's a 10-15% no-offer rate.

Don't say weaselly things like that. It's dishonest and irresponsible.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Urgent Advice Please

Postby Tiago Splitter » Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:there have been rumors that dechert NY has not been doing great- they no offered a lot of SAs in 2012 at a time when other firms were not doing it as much.


I summered at Dechert this year. As far as I know, everyone in all offices got offered.

In regards to Chicago, Dechert does have an office there. I believe it is only general lit. Someone from last summer was able to transfer there after getting an offer.


This is demonstrably untrue. NALP shows that at least 4 people in NYC got no-offered last year. 3/21 at Philadelphia. 1/8 at DC. That's a 10-15% no-offer rate.

Don't say weaselly things like that. It's dishonest and irresponsible.

A) Old thread

B) Anon?

C) Person said this year, not 2012.

Anonymous User
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Re: Urgent Advice Please

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:46 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:there have been rumors that dechert NY has not been doing great- they no offered a lot of SAs in 2012 at a time when other firms were not doing it as much.


I summered at Dechert this year. As far as I know, everyone in all offices got offered.

In regards to Chicago, Dechert does have an office there. I believe it is only general lit. Someone from last summer was able to transfer there after getting an offer.


This is demonstrably untrue. NALP shows that at least 4 people in NYC got no-offered last year. 3/21 at Philadelphia. 1/8 at DC. That's a 10-15% no-offer rate.

Don't say weaselly things like that. It's dishonest and irresponsible.

A) Old thread

B) Anon?

C) Person said this year, not 2012.


^ This. Summer 2013.

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IAFG
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Re: Urgent Advice Please

Postby IAFG » Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:57 pm

Summer in NYC, try to get an offer as a 3L after you get a summer offer, if that doesn't work out, lateral in a couple years.

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Re: Urgent Advice Please

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:25 pm

Mentor is a partner at Edwards...

Not sure if it is the best place to start, if you have other options.

09042014
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Re: Urgent Advice Please

Postby 09042014 » Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:32 pm

OP is probably sitting his MFH apartment MAF he didn't take Wildman. Midwest is BEST.




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