3L no job, is OK?

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
KamaalTheAbstract
Posts: 124
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:04 am

Re: 3L no job, is OK?

Postby KamaalTheAbstract » Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:21 am

nygrrrl wrote:
KamaalTheAbstract wrote:I've reported a bunch of them instead of commenting but they haven't dealt with any of them. Its kind of useless. It just says case closed and nothing happens.

We switch out the "anon" for the poster's real handle whenever we think it's appropriate. We do our best to keep up on this, but really? As IAFG has pointed out, unless someone is using the "anon" feature to actively abuse/harass another poster it's not at the top of the priority list. We do the best we can, mang - but we are students, too.

We appreciate both the use of the report button AND the self-policing suggested by a certain lovely lady (who, like me, is not a morning person.) :)


Gotcha.

User avatar
nygrrrl
Posts: 4948
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:01 am

Re: 3L no job, is OK?

Postby nygrrrl » Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:22 am

KamaalTheAbstract wrote:
nygrrrl wrote:
KamaalTheAbstract wrote:I've reported a bunch of them instead of commenting but they haven't dealt with any of them. Its kind of useless. It just says case closed and nothing happens.

We switch out the "anon" for the poster's real handle whenever we think it's appropriate. We do our best to keep up on this, but really? As IAFG has pointed out, unless someone is using the "anon" feature to actively abuse/harass another poster it's not at the top of the priority list. We do the best we can, mang - but we are students, too.

We appreciate both the use of the report button AND the self-policing suggested by a certain lovely lady (who, like me, is not a morning person.) :)


Gotcha.

Keep reporting them, man - we appreciate it and it's often the only way we'll see 'em.
:)
(FYI - we DO keep track of repeat offenders, so yeah - keep the input coming)

User avatar
DoubleChecks
Posts: 2333
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:35 pm

Re: 3L no job, is OK?

Postby DoubleChecks » Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:23 am

IAFG wrote:I guess I just don't see what the big problem with abusing anon is. I mean... is being a dick on the internet under some stupid username really that much different than doing it under Anonymous User? It's worthy of public shaming because, jesus christ you're being a little bitch if you pull that shit, but... who fucking cares? Anonymous User posts aren't going to change TLS into xoxo, because the mods would shut down heinous shit that would threaten the TLS-ness of TLS.


Then the rule should be changed to reflect that. I don't disagree with your logic, but I see little reason for a rule that says one thing but enforcement is another (especially when the rule could just easily be rewritten).

User avatar
nygrrrl
Posts: 4948
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:01 am

Re: 3L no job, is OK?

Postby nygrrrl » Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:24 am

DoubleChecks wrote:
IAFG wrote:I guess I just don't see what the big problem with abusing anon is. I mean... is being a dick on the internet under some stupid username really that much different than doing it under Anonymous User? It's worthy of public shaming because, jesus christ you're being a little bitch if you pull that shit, but... who fucking cares? Anonymous User posts aren't going to change TLS into xoxo, because the mods would shut down heinous shit that would threaten the TLS-ness of TLS.


Then the rule should be changed to reflect that. I don't disagree with your logic, but I see little reason for a rule that says one thing but enforcement is another (especially when the rule could just easily be rewritten).

See above. Without input from you guys, enforcement is damn near impossible. But self-policing helps, too.
For the record, I don't really care about dumb anon "abuse" - using the feature to post irrelevant information, etc. What bugs me is when someone uses it to attack another poster. You want to go there? Cool - but man up, do it openly. (Just my personal opinion, NOT shared by all of the mod team. :lol: )

User avatar
DoubleChecks
Posts: 2333
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:35 pm

Re: 3L no job, is OK?

Postby DoubleChecks » Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:29 am

nygrrrl wrote:
DoubleChecks wrote:
IAFG wrote:I guess I just don't see what the big problem with abusing anon is. I mean... is being a dick on the internet under some stupid username really that much different than doing it under Anonymous User? It's worthy of public shaming because, jesus christ you're being a little bitch if you pull that shit, but... who fucking cares? Anonymous User posts aren't going to change TLS into xoxo, because the mods would shut down heinous shit that would threaten the TLS-ness of TLS.


Then the rule should be changed to reflect that. I don't disagree with your logic, but I see little reason for a rule that says one thing but enforcement is another (especially when the rule could just easily be rewritten).

See above. Without input from you guys, enforcement is damn near impossible. But self-policing helps, too.


Sorry, what I meant was...if it is only going to be enforced when it crosses x line, no reason why the current rule draws a stricter y line. Might as well just make the rule at x as well. And self-policing goes directly against the anon rule posted in the employment thread as well (I am assuming by self-policing, you mean the public shaming/posting of other users in the thread against the anon's abuse of the feature).

As an aside, kudos to that anon poster for insulting people in this thread and then changing the information to something sensitive to not being able to be outed. I did lol irl.

User avatar
nygrrrl
Posts: 4948
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:01 am

Re: 3L no job, is OK?

Postby nygrrrl » Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:31 am

DoubleChecks wrote:Sorry, what I meant was...if it is only going to be enforced when it crosses x line, no reason why the current rule draws a stricter y line. Might as well just make the rule at x as well. And self-policing goes directly against the anon rule posted in the employment thread as well (I am assuming by self-policing, you mean the public shaming/posting of other users in the thread against the anon's abuse of the feature).

As an aside, kudos to that anon poster for insulting people in this thread and then changing the information to something sensitive to not being able to be outed. I did lol irl.

I hear you - and believe me, we discuss this issue a lot. We're working on it and I'll be conveying this discussion back to the rest of the team. (and yeah, I lol'd at that, too. did it before anyone could quote the original post. lol.)

User avatar
IAFG
Posts: 6665
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:26 pm

Re: 3L no job, is OK?

Postby IAFG » Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:32 am

DoubleChecks wrote:
nygrrrl wrote:
DoubleChecks wrote:
IAFG wrote:I guess I just don't see what the big problem with abusing anon is. I mean... is being a dick on the internet under some stupid username really that much different than doing it under Anonymous User? It's worthy of public shaming because, jesus christ you're being a little bitch if you pull that shit, but... who fucking cares? Anonymous User posts aren't going to change TLS into xoxo, because the mods would shut down heinous shit that would threaten the TLS-ness of TLS.


Then the rule should be changed to reflect that. I don't disagree with your logic, but I see little reason for a rule that says one thing but enforcement is another (especially when the rule could just easily be rewritten).

See above. Without input from you guys, enforcement is damn near impossible. But self-policing helps, too.


Sorry, what I meant was...if it is only going to be enforced when it crosses x line, no reason why the current rule draws a stricter y line. Might as well just make the rule at x as well. And self-policing goes directly against the anon rule posted in the employment thread as well (I am assuming by self-policing, you mean the public shaming/posting of other users in the thread against the anon's abuse of the feature).

As an aside, kudos to that anon poster for insulting people in this thread and then changing the information to something sensitive to not being able to be outed. I did lol irl.

And let's install GPS devices in all cars to automatically ticket anyone going .01 MPH over the speed limit while we're at it.

User avatar
nygrrrl
Posts: 4948
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:01 am

Re: 3L no job, is OK?

Postby nygrrrl » Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:34 am

Also, for you guys who think reporting doesn't matter? That poster may have edited out the post, but I know who it is now - and I'll be watching for future abusive behavior. Cuz yeah. I'm not a morning person and this is making me a bit stabby. 8)

User avatar
DoubleChecks
Posts: 2333
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:35 pm

Re: 3L no job, is OK?

Postby DoubleChecks » Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:35 am

IAFG wrote:And let's install GPS devices in all cars to automatically ticket anyone going .01 MPH over the speed limit while we're at it.


Tad disingenuous to compare the two things as they aren't actually the same thing. One is the actual inability to stop and ticket and prove that every person was going over the limit (generally-speaking), while the other is the choice to not enforce a rule. Not to mention there is a lot more flexibility in a somewhat arbitrary rule made in the hands of a few that can easily be changed.

^for mods, I am now arguing more on principle with IAFG and not suggesting that you guys necessarily have to go back and reword the ruling or whatever. It isn't that big of an issue lol.
Last edited by DoubleChecks on Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:38 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
IAFG
Posts: 6665
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:26 pm

Re: 3L no job, is OK?

Postby IAFG » Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:35 am

nygrrrl wrote:Also, for you guys who think reporting doesn't matter? That poster may have edited out the post, but I know who it is now - and I'll be watching for future abusive behavior. Cuz yeah. I'm not a morning person and this is making me a bit stabby. 8)

WHY AM I AWAKE AHHHHHH

User avatar
nygrrrl
Posts: 4948
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:01 am

Re: 3L no job, is OK?

Postby nygrrrl » Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:35 am

nygrrrl wrote:Also, for you guys who think reporting doesn't matter? That poster may have edited out the post, but I know who it is now - and I'll be watching for future abusive behavior. Cuz yeah. I'm not a morning person and this is making me a bit stabby. 8)


IAFG wrote:And let's install GPS devices in all cars to automatically ticket anyone going .01 MPH over the speed limit while we're at it.

:lol: God I hate bright line rules. And speed traps. And GPS, actually.
AND MORNING

User avatar
IAFG
Posts: 6665
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:26 pm

Re: 3L no job, is OK?

Postby IAFG » Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:37 am

Know what else sucks? People, the sun, fluorescent lighting, the Internet, clinic, and spiders.

User avatar
nygrrrl
Posts: 4948
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:01 am

Re: 3L no job, is OK?

Postby nygrrrl » Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:41 am

IAFG wrote:Know what else sucks? People, the sun, fluorescent lighting, the Internet, clinic, and spiders.

yes, at high noon, always, NO!, totally, gaaaaah.

AND....

parents who don't discipline their children, people who don't pick up after their dogs, waterbugs, moot court try outs, and the TSA

User avatar
IAFG
Posts: 6665
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:26 pm

Re: 3L no job, is OK?

Postby IAFG » Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:42 am

nygrrrl wrote:
IAFG wrote:Know what else sucks? People, the sun, fluorescent lighting, the Internet, clinic, and spiders.

yes, at high noon, always, NO!, totally, gaaaaah.

AND....

parents who don't discipline their children, people who don't pick up after their dogs, waterbugs, moot court try outs, and the TSA

ooh... good ones.

User avatar
nygrrrl
Posts: 4948
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:01 am

Re: 3L no job, is OK?

Postby nygrrrl » Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:01 pm

IAFG wrote:
nygrrrl wrote:
IAFG wrote:Know what else sucks? People, the sun, fluorescent lighting, the Internet, clinic, and spiders.

yes, at high noon, always, NO!, totally, gaaaaah.

AND....

parents who don't discipline their children, people who don't pick up after their dogs, waterbugs, moot court try outs, and the TSA

ooh... good ones.

I can't lie: I've had 3 cups of coffee.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273568
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: 3L no job, is OK?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:24 pm

To get this thread back on track --- had the following conversation recently with a graduated at median student with tons of debt, no job and seemingly no conception of how screwed they are.

"This job looks really awesome, I can't wait to apply once I pass the Bar. It seems perfect for my interests and skills."

"These jobs are tough to get, because usually they only hire people who did biglaw and became partners.

In the same breath... Some people really need to take a few years off before law school. Otherwise, you've done nothing but school your entire life and your brain is just mush!

User avatar
Aberzombie1892
Posts: 1907
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:56 am

Re: 3L no job, is OK?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:34 pm

romothesavior wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:While I am well of aware of the state of the legal job market, it's impossible to come to conclusions concerning a particular student without looking at the circumstances surrounding that student.

And yet you did???

Aberzombie1892 wrote: things will ultimately be fine.


Things may be fine, but this individual student likely has a huge uphill battle to getting a full-time, JD-required job. I'd guess that for a median T50 student with no moot court or journal (or most importantly, no job leads), odds are probably pointing to temp work or no legal job. OP, your friend needs to get their ass in gear because they don't sound like they have a lot going for them right now.


Yes and no. The vast majority of people that attend law school will be fine, regardless of the crap spewed out over this website. For example, if someone takes out more than $100,000 (even) in loans, then they are in the extreme minority of all law school students in terms of debt load - yet - this website tries to pretend as though everyone owes $120K+ for their law degrees.

Also, that person referred to by the OP will likely get a JD required job. This website pretends as though people have to be above median to get a JD required job, and that's simply not even close to true in the real world (even in this economy). TLS.com is a good site for raw information, but people make too many blanket statements regarding average debt loads (OMG everyone owes $100,000+!!!!) and employment prospects (OMG everyone does doc review or is employed who doesn't get big/mid law, PI or fed/state/city gov!!!!).

But yes, this website is right when it claims that people that go to T3/T4s for $150,000+ of debt are making poor decisions. But that isn't nearly as many people as you would think.

timbs4339
Posts: 2733
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:19 pm

Re: 3L no job, is OK?

Postby timbs4339 » Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:41 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:Yes and no. The vast majority of people that attend law school will be fine, regardless of the crap spewed out over this website. For example, if someone takes out more than $100,000 (even) in loans, then they are in the extreme minority of all law school students in terms of debt load - yet - this website tries to pretend as though everyone owes $120K+ for their law degrees.


Source for the $100,000 figure? This list seems to imply that many more than an "extreme minority" graduate with over 100K in debt.

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... t-rankings

User avatar
Nicholasnickynic
Posts: 1126
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 3:21 pm

Re: 3L no job, is OK?

Postby Nicholasnickynic » Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:31 pm

timbs4339 wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:Yes and no. The vast majority of people that attend law school will be fine, regardless of the crap spewed out over this website. For example, if someone takes out more than $100,000 (even) in loans, then they are in the extreme minority of all law school students in terms of debt load - yet - this website tries to pretend as though everyone owes $120K+ for their law degrees.


Source for the $100,000 figure? This list seems to imply that many more than an "extreme minority" graduate with over 100K in debt.

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... t-rankings



I agree- I'm not sure why 120k would be a rarity.

20k-30k col X 3 = 60k-90k
15-30k tuition x 3 = 45k-90k

105k-180k would be about the average cost, I would imagine.

Acting like 120k is a rarity is stupid.

tlstlstls73
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:27 pm

Re: 3L no job, is OK?

Postby tlstlstls73 » Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:38 pm

Sticker at most private schools is 200k with COL loans.

User avatar
Nicholasnickynic
Posts: 1126
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 3:21 pm

Re: 3L no job, is OK?

Postby Nicholasnickynic » Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Sticker at most private schools is 200k with COL loans.


Exactly, I was trying to be generous.

I know for my school, Wake Forest, half the students pay sticker.

Thats 35k + 20k CoL =55k x 3= 165k. Not to mention half the loans are not subsidized so by the time of graduation you can probably tack on at least another 5-10k I imagine.

So 170k-180k.

Also, the fact that the worse schools are no cheaper than the more elite schools does not help the situation.

ETA: Thanks to Obama, NO grad loans will be subsidized starting in 2012, so the numbers are technically going to be worse than that.

User avatar
Kendi
Posts: 97
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2011 4:00 pm

Re: 3L no job, is OK?

Postby Kendi » Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:47 pm

If you have a good GPA/LSAT, going to a solid T-1 school greatly reduces debt. I understand that there is a perceived downside concerning job prospects but somewhere along the line there will be risks, one way or the other. A southern T-1 works for me since I want to live and work in the tropics, not in the land of nor’easters.

User avatar
Nicholasnickynic
Posts: 1126
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 3:21 pm

Re: 3L no job, is OK?

Postby Nicholasnickynic » Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:48 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:While I am well of aware of the state of the legal job market, it's impossible to come to conclusions concerning a particular student without looking at the circumstances surrounding that student.

And yet you did???

Aberzombie1892 wrote: things will ultimately be fine.


Things may be fine, but this individual student likely has a huge uphill battle to getting a full-time, JD-required job. I'd guess that for a median T50 student with no moot court or journal (or most importantly, no job leads), odds are probably pointing to temp work or no legal job. OP, your friend needs to get their ass in gear because they don't sound like they have a lot going for them right now.


Yes and no. The vast majority of people that attend law school will be fine, regardless of the crap spewed out over this website. For example, if someone takes out more than $100,000 (even) in loans, then they are in the extreme minority of all law school students in terms of debt load - yet - this website tries to pretend as though everyone owes $120K+ for their law degrees.

Also, that person referred to by the OP will likely get a JD required job. This website pretends as though people have to be above median to get a JD required job, and that's simply not even close to true in the real world (even in this economy). TLS.com is a good site for raw information, but people make too many blanket statements regarding average debt loads (OMG everyone owes $100,000+!!!!) and employment prospects (OMG everyone does doc review or is employed who doesn't get big/mid law, PI or fed/state/city gov!!!!).

But yes, this website is right when it claims that people that go to T3/T4s for $150,000+ of debt are making poor decisions. But that isn't nearly as many people as you would think.


As discussed above, that is probably the majority of people.

I highly doubt that more than half of a group of people at any give school are on scholarship.

20-30k col
30-50k sticker..

50-80k a year... 150k-240year, for half the students at law schools, easily. (I don't think there are more than a handful of schools that charge under 30k at sticker.

Of course, there are people with parents money, so that lessens it. Of course, there are plenty of people that lose scholarships, so that makes it worse.

A large large large chunk of people are taking out 150k in loans.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273568
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: 3L no job, is OK?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:To get this thread back on track --- had the following conversation recently with a graduated at median student with tons of debt, no job and seemingly no conception of how screwed they are.

"This job looks really awesome, I can't wait to apply once I pass the Bar. It seems perfect for my interests and skills."

"These jobs are tough to get, because usually they only hire people who did biglaw and became partners.

In the same breath... Some people really need to take a few years off before law school. Otherwise, you've done nothing but school your entire life and your brain is just mush!

I get that some jobs require you to be barred as a prerequisite to applying, but I've never understood the mentality of waiting until you get the bar results to start applying. If you don't have a job as a new graduate, you can't expect to be picky and find the perfect job. Lots of professional service jobs out there (governmental non-legal jobs, consulting, accounting, non-legal teaching, policy/think tanks, politics) don't care about bar status and would be a great job for someone from a TT or even bottom of a T-14 to land after ending up empty handed from law school.

User avatar
romothesavior
Posts: 14772
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:29 pm

Re: 3L no job, is OK?

Postby romothesavior » Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:35 pm

timbs4339 wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:Yes and no. The vast majority of people that attend law school will be fine, regardless of the crap spewed out over this website. For example, if someone takes out more than $100,000 (even) in loans, then they are in the extreme minority of all law school students in terms of debt load - yet - this website tries to pretend as though everyone owes $120K+ for their law degrees.


Source for the $100,000 figure? This list seems to imply that many more than an "extreme minority" graduate with over 100K in debt.

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... t-rankings

+1. Aberzombie you are way off.




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.