What kinds of things get you no-offered and blacklisted Forum
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What kinds of things get you no-offered and blacklisted
What is the difference in performance between a bad summer associate and a truly awful summer associate? I have had a couple of friends, one of whom summer at a large firm and did something so bad that the firm no-offered them and told them they will no longer return their phone calls. He said it was just an inattention to detail that got him dinged so badly, but I have a hard time believing that.
Another was fired thirty minutes into a government internship and escorted from the building by security. I can't figure out what you could do in 30 minutes that is so bad to warrant immediate termination.
And at a firm I was interviewing at where I didn't get the job, I was "informed" three times not to worry that they had no-offered both their former summers because they were "just lazy" and they were sure I wouldn't be like them.
I know people are no-offered for doing sloppy work, not being a team player, not doing enough work, whatever, but what sort of thing do you have to do to have a firm actually badmouthing you or blacklisting you in the region.
Another was fired thirty minutes into a government internship and escorted from the building by security. I can't figure out what you could do in 30 minutes that is so bad to warrant immediate termination.
And at a firm I was interviewing at where I didn't get the job, I was "informed" three times not to worry that they had no-offered both their former summers because they were "just lazy" and they were sure I wouldn't be like them.
I know people are no-offered for doing sloppy work, not being a team player, not doing enough work, whatever, but what sort of thing do you have to do to have a firm actually badmouthing you or blacklisting you in the region.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sun Oct 16, 2011 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Difference between a bad and terrible summer?
I think you should edit the thread title to: "what kinds of things get you no-offered"... it doesn't really make sense the way you titled it.
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Re: Difference between a bad and terrible summer?
Thanks, changed.tlstlstls73 wrote:I think you should edit the thread title to: "what kinds of things get you no-offered"... it doesn't really make sense the way you titled it.
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Re: What kinds of things get you no-offered and blacklisted
I'm interested in knowing this as well, out of curiosity.
Although no fault of the SA, perhaps the biggest way to get no-offered is to profess an interest in a practice area (e.g., real estate) that is not likely hiring now or in the near future.
Although no fault of the SA, perhaps the biggest way to get no-offered is to profess an interest in a practice area (e.g., real estate) that is not likely hiring now or in the near future.
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Re: What kinds of things get you no-offered and blacklisted
If you were hired via PLIP at a general practice firm, is it safe to keep expressing an interest in IP Lit? All the CB interviewers were in IP lit and that's what they talked about hiring me for, but wondering if I should at some point show willingness to go elsewhere, in case that dries up, per your logic? Or is it OK to keep expressing excitement re: ip lit.dougroberts wrote:I'm interested in knowing this as well, out of curiosity.
Although no fault of the SA, perhaps the biggest way to get no-offered is to profess an interest in a practice area (e.g., real estate) that is not likely hiring now or in the near future.
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Re: What kinds of things get you no-offered and blacklisted
Getting no-offered is essentially a blacklist which will stop other firms from wanting you, so I guess the answer is, doing sloppy work, not being a team player, not doing enough work, etc.Anonymous User wrote: I know people are no-offered for doing sloppy work, not being a team player, not doing enough work, whatever, but what sort of thing do you have to do to have a firm actually badmouthing you or blacklisting you in the region.
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Re: What kinds of things get you no-offered and blacklisted
IP hardly ever goes dry. i wouldn't worry about it, unless you don't want to do IP.Anonymous User wrote:If you were hired via PLIP at a general practice firm, is it safe to keep expressing an interest in IP Lit? All the CB interviewers were in IP lit and that's what they talked about hiring me for, but wondering if I should at some point show willingness to go elsewhere, in case that dries up, per your logic? Or is it OK to keep expressing excitement re: ip lit.dougroberts wrote:I'm interested in knowing this as well, out of curiosity.
Although no fault of the SA, perhaps the biggest way to get no-offered is to profess an interest in a practice area (e.g., real estate) that is not likely hiring now or in the near future.
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Re: What kinds of things get you no-offered and blacklisted
sleeping with someone at the firm, saying something ridiculously offensive (i heard tales about a summer who told another summer that her lack of a sense of humor was tragic... "like an abortion!"), blowing lunch budget every time you go out, turning in half-done work or not doing it at all, asking a secretary to do your dry-cleaning or wash fruit for you (true story), telling the public about something confidential you're working on, coming to work drunk/high, wearing skirts that are too short...
basically anything that you wouldn't do if you had an iota of common sense.
basically anything that you wouldn't do if you had an iota of common sense.
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Re: What kinds of things get you no-offered and blacklisted
Fired in half an hour? That has to be some kind of a record, do you have any idea what happened?
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Re: What kinds of things get you no-offered and blacklisted
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RvNS7JfcMM ? I've worked in a lot of offices, and people do that all the time.azntwice wrote:sleeping with someone at the firm, saying something ridiculously offensive (i heard tales about a summer who told another summer that her lack of a sense of humor was tragic... "like an abortion!"), blowing lunch budget every time you go out, turning in half-done work or not doing it at all, asking a secretary to do your dry-cleaning or wash fruit for you (true story), telling the public about something confidential you're working on, coming to work drunk/high, wearing skirts that are too short...
basically anything that you wouldn't do if you had an iota of common sense.
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Re: What kinds of things get you no-offered and blacklisted
just because people "do it all the time" doesn't mean it's something you should be doing when you're trying to get a job there. hard to imagine how being labeled as the "office whore/man-whore" is going to help your career prospects.
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Re: What kinds of things get you no-offered and blacklisted
mrloblaw wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RvNS7JfcMM ? I've worked in a lot of offices, and people do that all the time.azntwice wrote:sleeping with someone at the firm, saying something ridiculously offensive (i heard tales about a summer who told another summer that her lack of a sense of humor was tragic... "like an abortion!"), blowing lunch budget every time you go out, turning in half-done work or not doing it at all, asking a secretary to do your dry-cleaning or wash fruit for you (true story), telling the public about something confidential you're working on, coming to work drunk/high, wearing skirts that are too short...
basically anything that you wouldn't do if you had an iota of common sense.
This is totally acceptable. I mean seriously. Some associates have pools to see who will bag the first/most summer(s). I wish I were kidding. However, don't do it on the desk in your office and not with the cleaning lady.
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Re: What kinds of things get you no-offered and blacklisted
Anonymous User wrote:just because people "do it all the time" doesn't mean it's something you should be doing when you're trying to get a job there. hard to imagine how being labeled as the "office whore/man-whore" is going to help your career prospects.
really? you "can't imagine" how that could help? I can think of a hundred ways it could help.
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Re: What kinds of things get you no-offered and blacklisted
Speaking of abortions, this thread needs one.Anonymous User wrote:mrloblaw wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RvNS7JfcMM ? I've worked in a lot of offices, and people do that all the time.azntwice wrote:sleeping with someone at the firm, saying something ridiculously offensive (i heard tales about a summer who told another summer that her lack of a sense of humor was tragic... "like an abortion!"), blowing lunch budget every time you go out, turning in half-done work or not doing it at all, asking a secretary to do your dry-cleaning or wash fruit for you (true story), telling the public about something confidential you're working on, coming to work drunk/high, wearing skirts that are too short...
basically anything that you wouldn't do if you had an iota of common sense.
This is totally acceptable. I mean seriously. Some associates have pools to see who will bag the first/most summer(s). I wish I were kidding. However, don't do it on the desk in your office and not with the cleaning lady.
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Re: What kinds of things get you no-offered and blacklisted
Maybe he lied on his application? or sexually harassed the boss before knowing she was the boss?luthersloan wrote:Fired in half an hour? That has to be some kind of a record, do you have any idea what happened?
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Re: What kinds of things get you no-offered and blacklisted
Anonymous User wrote:What is the difference in performance between a bad summer associate and a truly awful summer associate? I have had a couple of friends, one of whom summer at a large firm and did something so bad that the firm no-offered them and told them they will no longer return their phone calls. He said it was just an inattention to detail that got him dinged so badly, but I have a hard time believing that.
Another was fired thirty minutes into a government internship and escorted from the building by security. I can't figure out what you could do in 30 minutes that is so bad to warrant immediate termination.
And at a firm I was interviewing at where I didn't get the job, I was "informed" three times not to worry that they had no-offered both their former summers because they were "just lazy" and they were sure I wouldn't be like them.
I know people are no-offered for doing sloppy work, not being a team player, not doing enough work, whatever, but what sort of thing do you have to do to have a firm actually badmouthing you or blacklisting you in the region.
http://www.tuckermax.com/stories/the-no ... n-debacle/
sadly enough, tucker max did all of this stuff pre-recession...but some summers in my class did a few of things (most notably being incredibly intoxicated and flirting inappropriately with partners) a few months ago.
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Re: What kinds of things get you no-offered and blacklisted
I've heard a few stories from attorneys at two different firms that lead me to put the following items on the list:
- Be introduced to a judge, have a nice conversation with him, then go into his office to ask random legal questions and make small talk in the ensuing weeks. Then get an assignment from a partner and email the judge (not his clerk mind you, the judge himself) to ask for advice on how to research it.
- Run for public office in an adjoining county and WIN right after graduating law school due to your family name. Get your 2L firm to agree, tentatively, to bring you on after the next election if you decide not to run for re-election or lose. While in public office, earn a reputation for corruption and incompetence, culminating in a handful of criminal convictions and an appellate court opinion outlining certain grotesque and embarrassing physical traits of yours that were introduced as evidence for one of the charges.
- Work for a small town firm and approach every negotiation as if you were on Law & Order. Refuse to engage other attorneys in small talk outside of the courtroom. Give dirty looks to any opposing counsel. Refer to clients as "you small town people" and other similar labels. Sit at counsel table during a minor criminal trial and loudly suggest to your boss, at virtually every possible opportunity, that he should object.
- Repeatedly and awkwardly hit on a secretary who is happily married to a long-time client.
- Be introduced to a judge, have a nice conversation with him, then go into his office to ask random legal questions and make small talk in the ensuing weeks. Then get an assignment from a partner and email the judge (not his clerk mind you, the judge himself) to ask for advice on how to research it.
- Run for public office in an adjoining county and WIN right after graduating law school due to your family name. Get your 2L firm to agree, tentatively, to bring you on after the next election if you decide not to run for re-election or lose. While in public office, earn a reputation for corruption and incompetence, culminating in a handful of criminal convictions and an appellate court opinion outlining certain grotesque and embarrassing physical traits of yours that were introduced as evidence for one of the charges.
- Work for a small town firm and approach every negotiation as if you were on Law & Order. Refuse to engage other attorneys in small talk outside of the courtroom. Give dirty looks to any opposing counsel. Refer to clients as "you small town people" and other similar labels. Sit at counsel table during a minor criminal trial and loudly suggest to your boss, at virtually every possible opportunity, that he should object.
- Repeatedly and awkwardly hit on a secretary who is happily married to a long-time client.
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Re: What kinds of things get you no-offered and blacklisted
choosing the wrong firm or being unlucky enough to be at a firm that wouldn't offer back all their summers.... Don't be baited by their explaination that they want to hire all the summers and look at their actions. Look on NALP at their previous offer rate.
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