Is this the right way of making partner at a V10?

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Anonymous User
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Is this the right way of making partner at a V10?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:56 pm

Reposted from another forum:
--
Honestly, I wouldn't worry about billing so much. I would just build stamina. Establishing yourself isn't so much about billing hours, at least not initially. Just do good work repeatedly regardless of hours. If you do good work as a first year, even if your hours are 1900 or so, you'll be fine.

Year 1, just build a reputation of being reliable and competent. Be responsive to emails, phone calls, and do consistently good work. Build this reputation with several key partners and just be their little bitch. Do side discrete projects if you have time and serve on a firm committee if available to first years to show commitment. Try to bill between 1900-2000 hours, take a vacation, get a girlfriend and get married, get some sleep. Build your stamina.

Year 2, do the same stuff except now try to write an article in your spare time or edit an article for a partner. Ask one of the partners if you can go observe him on a pitch. If you're lacking in a particular area or want to get some litigation skills, do some pro bono. Keep consistent hours 1950-2000.

Year 3, Join Inn Of Court or some shit, or take on some leadership in ABA. Survey the land. Look at partners who are young enough to be able to stick around as you develop, but old enough to be able to have the influence to help you become partner (or shares/equity!). Look for opportunities to work for them and slave away. Get your hours to 2100.

Year 4, rinse and repeat year except get your hours to 2300.

Maintain 2300 hours while becoming more well known in your community, becoming more influential in your specialty through writing and more influential in your firm by working for key partners.

Around year 6, start managing the shit out of junior associates.

Year 7, give a good 2500 hour year. Realistically assess exit options in case you don't make partner.

Year 8 - make partner or leave firm. Only stick around if you have realistic shot to do it. Else, move on. You'll have a second bite at the apple in your early 40s if you have the right exit ops.
--

Sounds pretty credited to me, but I'd like to hear input from other (preferrably V10-20) associates.

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RVP11
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Re: Is this the right way of making partner at a V10?

Postby RVP11 » Sat Oct 15, 2011 12:00 am

LOL if it were this easy.

mrloblaw
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Re: Is this the right way of making partner at a V10?

Postby mrloblaw » Sat Oct 15, 2011 12:02 am

RVP11 wrote:LOL if it were this easy.


A caveman could do it?

--ImageRemoved--

MrAnon
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Re: Is this the right way of making partner at a V10?

Postby MrAnon » Sat Oct 15, 2011 12:07 am

Everyone does that. 1 in 30 become partner. If you want to skip all that you can just become buddies with a big hedge fund guy who has a lot of funds and is being sued by multiple investors. Then if you take a shit in the hallway at your firm everyone will look the other way while they make you partner so they can have that business. So you understand what matters? Not joining the rotary club, but finding business.

mrloblaw
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Re: Is this the right way of making partner at a V10?

Postby mrloblaw » Sat Oct 15, 2011 12:10 am

MrAnon wrote:Everyone does that. 1 in 30 become partner. If you want to skip all that you can just become buddies with a big hedge fund guy who has a lot of funds and is being sued by multiple investors. Then if you take a shit in the hallway at your firm everyone will look the other way while they make you partner so they can have that business. So you understand what matters? Not joining the rotary club, but finding business.


Based on a true story?

Fark-o-vision
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Re: Is this the right way of making partner at a V10?

Postby Fark-o-vision » Sat Oct 15, 2011 12:11 am

mrloblaw wrote:
RVP11 wrote:LOL if it were this easy.


A caveman could do it?

--ImageRemoved--


I think you might be confusing "simple" with "easy." These directions are certainly simple, but they sound anything but easy. You do realize how much of your life 2300 hundred hours is, right? And that just being in billable? If there are twenty working days in a calendar year that you do not give a fuck, you might have ruined your shot. And I know, right now it seems like for 190K you could just "make yourself" give a fuck on those rare days, but I don't think its as easy as that for most of us.

Also, leading junior associates takes time away from billing. If you're displaying management skills, you aren't billing. Come time, it'll probably be hard not to think, "Screw it, I'm already behind this week. Why should I be hand-holding a first year?"

Fark-o-vision
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Re: Is this the right way of making partner at a V10?

Postby Fark-o-vision » Sat Oct 15, 2011 12:12 am

Before anything else, I should say that I have no idea if this advice is right, insufficient, or completely off base. I'm just pointing out how often we confuse "simple" for "easy."

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Wholigan
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Re: Is this the right way of making partner at a V10?

Postby Wholigan » Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:00 am

There obviously is no surefire way of making partner, but I have heard from some senior associates at firms in the V20 range that this type of billable hours track is the one they have taken. This is in contrast to some of the opinions I have seen posted on here, that the way to stick around is to bill 2800 hours from the jump. I suspect that getting involved in some things that will get you noticed at the junior phase might be better than just billing a shitload of hours. (Unless of course you are at WLRK or somewhere else where 2800 would just make you a slacker.)

ETA: This is Wholigan. Didn't mean to post anon.

MOD Edit: I unveiled you since you didn't mean to post anon.

Renzo
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Re: Is this the right way of making partner at a V10?

Postby Renzo » Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:10 am

This is the right way, but that doesn't by any means imply that it's easy. It also ignores the most important variable, which is one you have no control over: economic justification for making another partner.

NotoriousIIED
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Re: Is this the right way of making partner at a V10?

Postby NotoriousIIED » Sat Oct 15, 2011 4:33 pm

Are any of you guys partners at v10's?

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rayiner
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Re: Is this the right way of making partner at a V10?

Postby rayiner » Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:45 pm

Renzo wrote:This is the right way, but that doesn't by any means imply that it's easy. It also ignores the most important variable, which is one you have no control over: economic justification for making another partner.


Yup. From what I've seen, making partner is both easier and harder than people generally think. On one hand, the odds are less drastic than you think. In 2006, Simpson Thacher made 13 partners from a class that probably started with 80 first-year associates. Those senior associates that made partner were probably competing with a pool of maybe 40 or less who entertained thoughts of gunning for partner past the first couple of years.

On the other hand, you can gun as hard as you want and still not make partner if the firm doesn't need one in your practice area at that particular time. During the recession Simpson Thacher made something like 5 partners, because they didn't need any more. A lot of the partners that did get made during the recession were in areas like bankruptcy which happened to be booming, or got thrust into key roles in handling bailout-related work. These are things that are all out of your control.

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Re: Is this the right way of making partner at a V10?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Oct 15, 2011 7:03 pm

rayiner wrote:
Renzo wrote:This is the right way, but that doesn't by any means imply that it's easy. It also ignores the most important variable, which is one you have no control over: economic justification for making another partner.


Yup. From what I've seen, making partner is both easier and harder than people generally think. On one hand, the odds are less drastic than you think. In 2006, Simpson Thacher made 13 partners from a class that probably started with 80 first-year associates. Those senior associates that made partner were probably competing with a pool of maybe 40 or less who entertained thoughts of gunning for partner past the first couple of years.

On the other hand, you can gun as hard as you want and still not make partner if the firm doesn't need one in your practice area at that particular time. During the recession Simpson Thacher made something like 5 partners, because they didn't need any more. A lot of the partners that did get made during the recession were in areas like bankruptcy which happened to be booming, or got thrust into key roles in handling bailout-related work. These are things that are all out of your control.


Sounds like you read my other thread.

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IAFG
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Re: Is this the right way of making partner at a V10?

Postby IAFG » Sat Oct 15, 2011 7:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sounds like you read my other thread.

Anonymous User wants credit for past posts.

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Re: Is this the right way of making partner at a V10?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Oct 15, 2011 7:13 pm

IAFG wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Sounds like you read my other thread.

Anonymous User wants credit for past posts.


Oops, thought he was a mod.

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Re: Is this the right way of making partner at a V10?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Reposted from another forum:
--
Honestly, I wouldn't worry about billing so much. I would just build stamina. Establishing yourself isn't so much about billing hours, at least not initially. Just do good work repeatedly regardless of hours. If you do good work as a first year, even if your hours are 1900 or so, you'll be fine.

Year 1, just build a reputation of being reliable and competent. Be responsive to emails, phone calls, and do consistently good work. Build this reputation with several key partners and just be their little bitch. Do side discrete projects if you have time and serve on a firm committee if available to first years to show commitment. Try to bill between 1900-2000 hours, take a vacation, get a girlfriend and get married, get some sleep. Build your stamina.

Year 2, do the same stuff except now try to write an article in your spare time or edit an article for a partner. Ask one of the partners if you can go observe him on a pitch. If you're lacking in a particular area or want to get some litigation skills, do some pro bono. Keep consistent hours 1950-2000.

Year 3, Join Inn Of Court or some shit, or take on some leadership in ABA. Survey the land. Look at partners who are young enough to be able to stick around as you develop, but old enough to be able to have the influence to help you become partner (or shares/equity!). Look for opportunities to work for them and slave away. Get your hours to 2100.

Year 4, rinse and repeat year except get your hours to 2300.

Maintain 2300 hours while becoming more well known in your community, becoming more influential in your specialty through writing and more influential in your firm by working for key partners.

Around year 6, start managing the shit out of junior associates.

Year 7, give a good 2500 hour year. Realistically assess exit options in case you don't make partner.

Year 8 - make partner or leave firm. Only stick around if you have realistic shot to do it. Else, move on. You'll have a second bite at the apple in your early 40s if you have the right exit ops.
--

Sounds pretty credited to me, but I'd like to hear input from other (preferrably V10-20) associates.

One thing missing here that I would add is: Be nice to your fellow Year 1s and senior associates. Yes it's the senior partners who you need to suck up to and do good work for to get to partner in year 8, but if you go salivating over his work and are never around for the senior who needs help with something, he'll be sure to ding you when he gets to partner. A judge I knew once said that the people least likely to become judges were those who planned their entire career around doing everything right to be appointed. He said they appeared far too desperate and obviously wanting it and were frequently passed over for people who just did whatever they were doing at the time to their damnedest.

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Re: Is this the right way of making partner at a V10?

Postby Julio_El_Chavo » Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:24 am

I love it when people who have gotten ahead in life by checking boxes and being the most perfect, cookie-cutter students they can be struggle to figure out how to bring in business and become partner.

tlstlstls73
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Re: Is this the right way of making partner at a V10?

Postby tlstlstls73 » Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:29 am

Julio_El_Chavo wrote:I love it when people who have gotten ahead in life by checking boxes and being the most perfect, cookie-cutter students they can be struggle to figure out how to bring in business and become partner.


Yup. Real world hurts.

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Re: Is this the right way of making partner at a V10?

Postby Bronte » Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:43 am

Julio_El_Chavo wrote:I love it when people who have gotten ahead in life by checking boxes and being the most perfect, cookie-cutter students they can be struggle to figure out how to bring in business and become partner.


How do you envision this "bringing in business" working. You walk over to JPMorgan and ask to speak with Jamie Dimon?

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Re: Is this the right way of making partner at a V10?

Postby Old Gregg » Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:54 am

Bronte wrote:
Julio_El_Chavo wrote:I love it when people who have gotten ahead in life by checking boxes and being the most perfect, cookie-cutter students they can be struggle to figure out how to bring in business and become partner.


How do you envision this "bringing in business" working. You walk over to JPMorgan and ask to speak with Jamie Dimon?


I don't think he implied that at all.

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Re: Is this the right way of making partner at a V10?

Postby tlstlstls73 » Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:54 am

Bronte wrote:
Julio_El_Chavo wrote:I love it when people who have gotten ahead in life by checking boxes and being the most perfect, cookie-cutter students they can be struggle to figure out how to bring in business and become partner.


How do you envision this "bringing in business" working. You walk over to JPMorgan and ask to speak with Jamie Dimon?


Until you've sold products or services to F500 C-level execs (I have), there's no point in trying to explain it. Best advice I can give is to find a mentor who brings in good business at your firm, and try to absorb.

Edit: --Gregory Berry
Last edited by tlstlstls73 on Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ruski
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Re: Is this the right way of making partner at a V10?

Postby ruski » Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:58 am

this thread is how to make partner at a v10. i highly doubt a v10 expects midlevel to senior associates to be bringing in deals worth in the billions. so maybe you have developed one good PE connect that does $50 million deals - cravath would laugh at you for trying to bring this in. most likely, to make partner you learn how to keep/maintain existing relationships the firm already has, while at the same time developing your reputation in that practice area to attract other big name clients. i really doubt its a matter of joining the inn of courts and trying bring in business from aba events.

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Re: Is this the right way of making partner at a V10?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:01 pm

Bronte wrote:
Julio_El_Chavo wrote:I love it when people who have gotten ahead in life by checking boxes and being the most perfect, cookie-cutter students they can be struggle to figure out how to bring in business and become partner.


How do you envision this "bringing in business" working. You walk over to JPMorgan and ask to speak with Jamie Dimon?


It happens. I've talked with junior associates who've brought in substantial business with their connections. Family and friends can swing things your way more than you may realize.

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Bronte
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Re: Is this the right way of making partner at a V10?

Postby Bronte » Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:03 pm

tlstlstls73 wrote:
Bronte wrote:
Julio_El_Chavo wrote:I love it when people who have gotten ahead in life by checking boxes and being the most perfect, cookie-cutter students they can be struggle to figure out how to bring in business and become partner.


How do you envision this "bringing in business" working. You walk over to JPMorgan and ask to speak with Jamie Dimon?


Until you've sold products or services to F500 C-level execs (I have), there's no point in trying to explain it. Best advice I can give is to find a mentor who brings in good business at your firm, and try to absorb.


Good luck.

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Re: Is this the right way of making partner at a V10?

Postby Renzo » Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:04 pm

tlstlstls73 wrote:
Bronte wrote:
Julio_El_Chavo wrote:I love it when people who have gotten ahead in life by checking boxes and being the most perfect, cookie-cutter students they can be struggle to figure out how to bring in business and become partner.


How do you envision this "bringing in business" working. You walk over to JPMorgan and ask to speak with Jamie Dimon?


Until you've sold products or services to F500 C-level execs (I have), there's no point in trying to explain it. Best advice I can give is to find a mentor who brings in good business at your firm, and try to absorb.


You've achieved ignorant and smug in the same post. Good work.

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Re: Is this the right way of making partner at a V10?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Oct 16, 2011 2:20 pm

ruski wrote:this thread is how to make partner at a v10. i highly doubt a v10 expects midlevel to senior associates to be bringing in deals worth in the billions. so maybe you have developed one good PE connect that does $50 million deals - cravath would laugh at you for trying to bring this in. most likely, to make partner you learn how to keep/maintain existing relationships the firm already has, while at the same time developing your reputation in that practice area to attract other big name clients. i really doubt its a matter of joining the inn of courts and trying bring in business from aba events.


Based on my conversations with partners at CB's at CSM, etc:

At least within the V10 "bringing in business" isn't a matter of drumming up new clients, at least at the junior partner level. Over the decades the firms have established contacts with pretty much every company that's worth their while to do business with. They're constantly getting calls and turning down work. Business development tends to consist of two things:
1) pitching new services to existing clients; trying to get put on the most lucrative deals or trying to advise on new areas of law;
2) developing expertise and a reputation so that clients with issues call you as an expert in the field.

You have to remember that at this level, there is a lot of formal process. JPM isn't going to assign a deal based on a personal contact. They've got a department whose job it is to farm out the work, and those people are going to follow a process. On the firm side there is a formal business development group with many employees which handles a lot of the "pounding the pavement" and arranges for partners to do pitches, etc.




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