You guys deserve better.

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rinkrat19
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Re: You guys deserve better.

Postby rinkrat19 » Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:22 pm

JohnHopkinsMD wrote:It is certainly not in my nature(especially behind a computer screen) and my initial intentions at all. I wanted to share an experience to be a voice of reason for who I thought would be a great of extremely intelligent young men and women. Instead I received this negative backlash.

You also failed to answer some perfectly reasonable questions.

rinkrat19 wrote:And what do you say to the engineering majors who never found an engineering job? *raises hand*

I'm taking the T14 gamble, and I'm doing it with my eyes open and the best available information.

Unlike some science-disinclined liberal arts majors, I could probably get through med school, but I don't want to be a doctor.

beardown_tho
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Re: You guys deserve better.

Postby beardown_tho » Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:25 pm

I will definitely not be leasing, thank you very much. I will own my very own 2004 Honda Accord. So ha! Take that!

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romothesavior
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Re: You guys deserve better.

Postby romothesavior » Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:32 pm

JohnHopkinsMD wrote:Thanks, good luck making 55,000 per year doing document review, leasing a Honda Accord, making rent pay check to pay check while I am making millions of dollars performing surgeries that save peoples lives. I would be mad if I were you also.

Except where the part where I'm not going to be doing that.

You don't go to Johnny Hopkins. HTH.

flcath
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Re: You guys deserve better.

Postby flcath » Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:33 pm

Do you think you can pull some strings to get me into med school, bro?

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MrPapagiorgio
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Re: You guys deserve better.

Postby MrPapagiorgio » Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:34 pm

JohnHopkinsMD wrote:
Gettingstarted1928 wrote:LOL. Did OP just make everyone sit down?

It is certainly not in my nature(especially behind a computer screen) and my initial intentions at all. I wanted to share an experience to be a voice of reason for who I thought would be a great of extremely intelligent young men and women. Instead I received this negative backlash.

Look dude we all get what you were trying to do. The fact is what you said is anecdotal. Your brother may be an outlier. But most importantly, looking at your entire OP, there is nothing new and nothing that hasn't been beaten to death.

JohnHopkinsMD
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Re: You guys deserve better.

Postby JohnHopkinsMD » Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:40 pm

flcath wrote:Do you think you can pull some strings to get me into med school, bro?


No strings need to be pulled, buddy. Just hard work. Some science seems very tedious and involves rote memorization, but its very rewarding in the end.

flcath
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Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:39 pm

Re: You guys deserve better.

Postby flcath » Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:46 pm

JohnHopkinsMD wrote:
flcath wrote:Do you think you can pull some strings to get me into med school, bro?


No strings need to be pulled, buddy. Just hard work. Some science seems very tedious and involves rote memorization, but its very rewarding in the end.

I'm pretty smart (e.g., made 172 on LSAT with <10 hours prep; 1510 SAT; etc.), but I'm a true slacker (e.g., couldn't motivate myself to study for LSAT; have learned 95% of law school from E&E's in the final week before exams, etc.). I stumbled though my UG in biochem with a 3.20 gpa.

These traits seem to not align well with a career in medicine, but I'd kill to be in that field. Thoughts?

JohnHopkinsMD
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Re: You guys deserve better.

Postby JohnHopkinsMD » Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:52 pm

flcath wrote:
JohnHopkinsMD wrote:
flcath wrote:Do you think you can pull some strings to get me into med school, bro?


No strings need to be pulled, buddy. Just hard work. Some science seems very tedious and involves rote memorization, but its very rewarding in the end.

I'm pretty smart (e.g., made 172 on LSAT with <10 hours prep; 1510 SAT; etc.), but I'm a true slacker (e.g., couldn't motivate myself to study for LSAT; have learned 95% of law school from E&E's in the final week before exams, etc.). I stumbled though my UG in biochem with a 3.20 gpa.

These traits seem to not align well with a career in medicine, but I'd kill to be in that field. Thoughts?


Hmm 3.2 in biochem. Did you finish all pre-med reqs? Do you have an hospital volunteer experience? Have you looked into Oseopathic Medical Schools? If you have not finished pre-reqs or want to raise GPA have you thought about partaking in a post-bacc pre-med program?

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NYC Law
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Re: You guys deserve better.

Postby NYC Law » Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:53 pm

I know a couple miserable doctors. My mom is a nurse actually, all of the Doctors she works with hate their lives, still have debt, and many say not to go to med school (unless you truly have a burning desire to practice medicine). So whose anecdotes win?

Clearly the only route to happiness is a career in retail, Target management or bust.



or..

Do what you want to do while being somewhat financially responsible and not being motivated by retarded motives (ie going into either medicine or law just because you think you'll hit the jackpot), and not listening to rando tools on the internet.

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romothesavior
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Re: You guys deserve better.

Postby romothesavior » Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:54 pm

NYC Law wrote:Do what you want to do while being somewhat financially responsible and not being motivated by retarded motives (ie going into either medicine or law just because you think you'll hit the jackpot), and not listening to rando tools on the internet.

This is actually pretty good advice, as long as a person does the bolded (and many, perhaps most, don't).

flcath
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Re: You guys deserve better.

Postby flcath » Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:58 pm

JohnHopkinsMD wrote:Hmm 3.2 in biochem. Did you finish all pre-med reqs? Do you have an hospital volunteer experience? Have you looked into Oseopathic Medical Schools? If you have not finished pre-reqs or want to raise GPA have you thought about partaking in a post-bacc pre-med program?


I did some free clinic volunteering, but lack a DO recommender (and frankly, since I'd require a post-bacc anyway, I'd like to shoot for MD). I actually did really well in the MS pre-reqs, ironically, and if I'd have just gone on to major in English or something I'd probably be living the Dream today... unfortunately, I sucked it up big time my last two years, which destroyed my science gpa (it's like a 3.0) and gave me a bad "trend."

Of course I'd have to do a post-bacc (the kind for ppl who have done all the pre-reqs; the Notre Dame pre-med advisor suggested Loyola), and I'm hoping maybe a law degree will make me a more interesting applicant.

flcath
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Re: You guys deserve better.

Postby flcath » Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:59 pm

romothesavior wrote:
NYC Law wrote:Do what you want to do while being somewhat financially responsible and not being motivated by retarded motives (ie going into either medicine or law just because you think you'll hit the jackpot), and not listening to rando tools on the internet.

This is actually pretty good advice, as long as a person does the bolded (and many, perhaps most, don't).

But, reminder:

What's the difference b/t (1) having $140,000 in debt, and a crappy job, and (2) having $300,000 in debt, and the same crappy job?

Answer: Nothing.

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romothesavior
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Re: You guys deserve better.

Postby romothesavior » Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:04 am

flcath wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
NYC Law wrote:Do what you want to do while being somewhat financially responsible and not being motivated by retarded motives (ie going into either medicine or law just because you think you'll hit the jackpot), and not listening to rando tools on the internet.

This is actually pretty good advice, as long as a person does the bolded (and many, perhaps most, don't).

But, reminder:

What's the difference b/t (1) having $140,000 in debt, and a crappy job, and (2) having $300,000 in debt, and the same crappy job?

Answer: Nothing.

I don't get it.

JohnHopkinsMD
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:54 pm

Re: You guys deserve better.

Postby JohnHopkinsMD » Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:09 am

flcath wrote:
JohnHopkinsMD wrote:Hmm 3.2 in biochem. Did you finish all pre-med reqs? Do you have an hospital volunteer experience? Have you looked into Oseopathic Medical Schools? If you have not finished pre-reqs or want to raise GPA have you thought about partaking in a post-bacc pre-med program?


I did some free clinic volunteering, but lack a DO recommender (and frankly, since I'd require a post-bacc anyway, I'd like to shoot for MD). I actually did really well in the MS pre-reqs, ironically, and if I'd have just gone on to major in English or something I'd probably be living the Dream today... unfortunately, I sucked it up big time my last two years, which destroyed my science gpa (it's like a 3.0) and gave me a bad "trend."

Of course I'd have to do a post-bacc (the kind for ppl who have done all the pre-reqs; the Notre Dame pre-med advisor suggested Loyola), and I'm hoping maybe a law degree will make me a more interesting applicant.


There are many things you can do in the medical field with your numbers (if you of course do well on the MCAT). There are certainly DO schools that will accept you, and keep in mind that DO schools are eligible for the same residencies as MD's.

Of course there are also some Dental, Podiatry, etc which you would definitely be eligible for with your numbers.

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Gettingstarted1928
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Re: You guys deserve better.

Postby Gettingstarted1928 » Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:12 am

NYC Law wrote:I know a couple miserable doctors. My mom is a nurse actually, all of the Doctors she works with hate their lives, still have debt, and many say not to go to med school (unless you truly have a burning desire to practice medicine). So whose anecdotes win?

Clearly the only route to happiness is a career in retail, Target management or bust.



or..

Do what you want to do while being somewhat financially responsible and not being motivated by retarded motives (ie going into either medicine or law just because you think you'll hit the jackpot), and not listening to rando tools on the internet.


I've learned that 99.9% don't like their jobs and complain about how bad they have it. The other .1% are firemen. They work 40 hours or so a week at a job where they occasionally spray a hose and their biggest concern is whether or not the guy on the grill is going to overcook the steaks for dinner.
Last edited by Gettingstarted1928 on Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

flcath
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Re: You guys deserve better.

Postby flcath » Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:13 am

romothesavior wrote:
flcath wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
NYC Law wrote:Do what you want to do while being somewhat financially responsible and not being motivated by retarded motives (ie going into either medicine or law just because you think you'll hit the jackpot), and not listening to rando tools on the internet.

This is actually pretty good advice, as long as a person does the bolded (and many, perhaps most, don't).

But, reminder:

What's the difference b/t (1) having $140,000 in debt, and a crappy job, and (2) having $300,000 in debt, and the same crappy job?

Answer: Nothing.

I don't get it.

IBR.

flcath
Posts: 1502
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:39 pm

Re: You guys deserve better.

Postby flcath » Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:17 am

JohnHopkinsMD wrote:
flcath wrote:
JohnHopkinsMD wrote:Hmm 3.2 in biochem. Did you finish all pre-med reqs? Do you have an hospital volunteer experience? Have you looked into Oseopathic Medical Schools? If you have not finished pre-reqs or want to raise GPA have you thought about partaking in a post-bacc pre-med program?


I did some free clinic volunteering, but lack a DO recommender (and frankly, since I'd require a post-bacc anyway, I'd like to shoot for MD). I actually did really well in the MS pre-reqs, ironically, and if I'd have just gone on to major in English or something I'd probably be living the Dream today... unfortunately, I sucked it up big time my last two years, which destroyed my science gpa (it's like a 3.0) and gave me a bad "trend."

Of course I'd have to do a post-bacc (the kind for ppl who have done all the pre-reqs; the Notre Dame pre-med advisor suggested Loyola), and I'm hoping maybe a law degree will make me a more interesting applicant.


There are many things you can do in the medical field with your numbers (if you of course do well on the MCAT). There are certainly DO schools that will accept you, and keep in mind that DO schools are eligible for the same residencies as MD's.

Of course there are also some Dental, Podiatry, etc which you would definitely be eligible for with your numbers.

Yeah, I might give AMCAS a whirl over my 3L year (since it'll save 2, maybe 3 years of post-bacc + application cycle if I could get in that way), but I'm highly skeptical.

The nice thing, too, is that I went to Florida State, which (a) itself is one of the easiest allopathic MSs in the nation to get into, and they like their UGs, and (b) will legitimize my FL residency status, which is probably the most favorable in the nation these days what with the new schools opening.

JohnHopkinsMD
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Re: You guys deserve better.

Postby JohnHopkinsMD » Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:18 am

NYC Law wrote:I know a couple miserable doctors. My mom is a nurse actually, all of the Doctors she works with hate their lives, still have debt, and many say not to go to med school (unless you truly have a burning desire to practice medicine). So whose anecdotes win?

Clearly the only route to happiness is a career in retail, Target management or bust.



or..

Do what you want to do while being somewhat financially responsible and not being motivated by retarded motives (ie going into either medicine or law just because you think you'll hit the jackpot), and not listening to rando tools on the internet.


Pretty terrible argument to make in a law school forum considering that fact that lawyers are notorious for hating their jobs more than any other profession...

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romothesavior
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Re: You guys deserve better.

Postby romothesavior » Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:20 am

flcath wrote:IBR.

Huge assumption that you can get a legal job that qualifies you for 10-year IBR. Government? Not hiring. PI work? Meh... not really what most law students are interested in, and also competitive and often require a showing of real dedication to it. I want to do private practice work, and most people do too. IBR isn't just some magical cure all.

And if you are working a 35k job before law school and quit to go to law school, and then graduate into a 35k public interest job that you aren't all that into, sure you may qualify for 10-year IBR, but you just dug yourself into a massive hole (the debt you took on + the opportunity cost). Not to mention that you just wasted 3 years of your life for a lower salary than you would have had if you had just stuck with the old job.

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romothesavior
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Re: You guys deserve better.

Postby romothesavior » Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:20 am

JohnHopkinsMD wrote:
NYC Law wrote:I know a couple miserable doctors. My mom is a nurse actually, all of the Doctors she works with hate their lives, still have debt, and many say not to go to med school (unless you truly have a burning desire to practice medicine). So whose anecdotes win?

Clearly the only route to happiness is a career in retail, Target management or bust.



or..

Do what you want to do while being somewhat financially responsible and not being motivated by retarded motives (ie going into either medicine or law just because you think you'll hit the jackpot), and not listening to rando tools on the internet.


Pretty terrible argument to make in a law school forum considering that fact that lawyers are notorious for hating their jobs more than any other profession...

Go away.

JohnHopkinsMD
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:54 pm

Re: You guys deserve better.

Postby JohnHopkinsMD » Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:22 am

flcath wrote:
JohnHopkinsMD wrote:
flcath wrote:
JohnHopkinsMD wrote:Hmm 3.2 in biochem. Did you finish all pre-med reqs? Do you have an hospital volunteer experience? Have you looked into Oseopathic Medical Schools? If you have not finished pre-reqs or want to raise GPA have you thought about partaking in a post-bacc pre-med program?


I did some free clinic volunteering, but lack a DO recommender (and frankly, since I'd require a post-bacc anyway, I'd like to shoot for MD). I actually did really well in the MS pre-reqs, ironically, and if I'd have just gone on to major in English or something I'd probably be living the Dream today... unfortunately, I sucked it up big time my last two years, which destroyed my science gpa (it's like a 3.0) and gave me a bad "trend."

Of course I'd have to do a post-bacc (the kind for ppl who have done all the pre-reqs; the Notre Dame pre-med advisor suggested Loyola), and I'm hoping maybe a law degree will make me a more interesting applicant.


There are many things you can do in the medical field with your numbers (if you of course do well on the MCAT). There are certainly DO schools that will accept you, and keep in mind that DO schools are eligible for the same residencies as MD's.

Of course there are also some Dental, Podiatry, etc which you would definitely be eligible for with your numbers.

Yeah, I might give AMCAS a whirl over my 3L year (since it'll save 2, maybe 3 years of post-bacc + application cycle if I could get in that way), but I'm highly skeptical.

The nice thing, too, is that I went to Florida State, which (a) itself is one of the easiest allopathic MSs in the nation to get into, and they like their UGs, and (b) will legitimize my FL residency status, which is probably the most favorable in the nation these days what with the new schools opening.


It seems to me that you really want a career in the Medical field. I really suggest that you pursue it head on, as it will make you happier for an entire lifetime , and you CAN do it.

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NYC Law
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Re: You guys deserve better.

Postby NYC Law » Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:22 am

JohnHopkinsMD wrote:
NYC Law wrote:I know a couple miserable doctors. My mom is a nurse actually, all of the Doctors she works with hate their lives, still have debt, and many say not to go to med school (unless you truly have a burning desire to practice medicine). So whose anecdotes win?

Clearly the only route to happiness is a career in retail, Target management or bust.



or..

Do what you want to do while being somewhat financially responsible and not being motivated by retarded motives (ie going into either medicine or law just because you think you'll hit the jackpot), and not listening to rando tools on the internet.


Pretty terrible argument to make in a law school forum considering that fact that lawyers are notorious for hating their jobs more than any other profession...


Which goes back to the point of doing something you actually want to do without retarded motives. I can guarantee a sizable chunk of lawyers got into it because of:
(1) Nothing better to do
(2) $$$ and/or models + Bottles
(3) Legally Blonde
(4) Law and Order
(and a minority because of "My cousin Vinny")

All of which are awful reasons to get into law school. If you take the same precautions as you would with med school, by actually learning about what lawyers really do by volunteering/getting a gig as a paralegal first and truly want to do the work, then it's a solid path, provided you're somewhat financially responsible (which is more of a personal decision, as long as it's using adequate information and research)

JohnHopkinsMD
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:54 pm

Re: You guys deserve better.

Postby JohnHopkinsMD » Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:25 am

romothesavior wrote:
JohnHopkinsMD wrote:
NYC Law wrote:I know a couple miserable doctors. My mom is a nurse actually, all of the Doctors she works with hate their lives, still have debt, and many say not to go to med school (unless you truly have a burning desire to practice medicine). So whose anecdotes win?

Clearly the only route to happiness is a career in retail, Target management or bust.



or..

Do what you want to do while being somewhat financially responsible and not being motivated by retarded motives (ie going into either medicine or law just because you think you'll hit the jackpot), and not listening to rando tools on the internet.


Pretty terrible argument to make in a law school forum considering that fact that lawyers are notorious for hating their jobs more than any other profession...

Go away.


;)

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Gettingstarted1928
Posts: 407
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Re: You guys deserve better.

Postby Gettingstarted1928 » Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:27 am

NYC Law wrote:I know a couple miserable doctors. My mom is a nurse actually, all of the Doctors she works with hate their lives, still have debt, and many say not to go to med school (unless you truly have a burning desire to practice medicine). So whose anecdotes win?

Clearly the only route to happiness is a career in retail, Target management or bust.



or..

Do what you want to do while being somewhat financially responsible and not being motivated by retarded motives (ie going into either medicine or law just because you think you'll hit the jackpot), and not listening to rando tools on the internet.


TITCR

Quick psycho-babbe: In the research I've done, there is a point where money doesn't make you any happier, and that threshold is 75k (obviously this changes a bit depending on where you live and what type of person you are). Being financially responsible is credited. I think financial stress will be there whether you make 100k or 500k.
Last edited by Gettingstarted1928 on Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

flcath
Posts: 1502
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:39 pm

Re: You guys deserve better.

Postby flcath » Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:29 am

romothesavior wrote:
flcath wrote:IBR.

Huge assumption that you can get a legal job that qualifies you for 10-year IBR. Government? Not hiring. PI work? Meh... not really what most law students are interested in, and also competitive and often require a showing of real dedication to it. I want to do private practice work, and most people do too. IBR isn't just some magical cure all.

And if you are working a 35k job before law school and quit to go to law school, and then graduate into a 35k public interest job that you aren't all that into, sure you may qualify for 10-year IBR, but you just dug yourself into a massive hole (the debt you took on + the opportunity cost). Not to mention that you just wasted 3 years of your life for a lower salary than you would have had if you had just stuck with the old job.

Oh, I'm not even assuming you can get PSLF (which, when you think about it, is a damn cushy deal); I'm just talking about the 25-year standard.

And obviously there's still a difference beneath the you-won't-ever-pay-it-off-yourself threshold (and, duh, you're right that it'd be retarded to deliberately exceed said threshold from scratch), but once you're above that amount, there's no incentive to keep debt down...

especially if the additional debt could mean changing into a career you feel you'll love.




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