What are the options after striking out?

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romothesavior
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Re: What are the options after striking out?

Postby romothesavior » Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:53 pm

GermX wrote:That's obviously an option. I'll look into every angle. And yes, I am thinking of aiming for a clerkship if my grades improve and I nudge myself into top 15% or something. I just feel like a judicial internship will at least give me experience doing the kind of work lawyers do, while at a federal agency there's a danger of not getting the right kind of legal experience.

Completely disagree. A 2L summer judicial internship is a terrible idea. You get little out of it in the way of networking, real world experience, or long term employment options. Yes it is better than nothing, but better options are still out there. A federal government job is a far better option.

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Grizz
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Re: What are the options after striking out?

Postby Grizz » Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:00 pm

romothesavior wrote:
GermX wrote:That's obviously an option. I'll look into every angle. And yes, I am thinking of aiming for a clerkship if my grades improve and I nudge myself into top 15% or something. I just feel like a judicial internship will at least give me experience doing the kind of work lawyers do, while at a federal agency there's a danger of not getting the right kind of legal experience.

Completely disagree. A 2L summer judicial internship is a terrible idea. You get little out of it in the way of networking, real world experience, or long term employment options. Yes it is better than nothing, but better options are still out there. A federal government job is a far better option.

How is fed. govt. type work NOT what lawyers do?

GermX
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Re: What are the options after striking out?

Postby GermX » Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:01 pm

Good point. I can probably get one considering how many of them there are (and by them I mean unpaid internships, I'm aware the paid ones are competitive). Still, my last government internship wasn't very helpful in that regard. I mean the work I did will have an insanely huge effect on D.C. (not exaggerating at all), but it didn't impress employers apparantly :\.

How is fed. govt. type work NOT what lawyers do?


Because a lot of it involves policy-type legal work instead of lawyer-type work (i.e. motions etc...). Just from my experience. My previous federal internship involved policy changes that were huge and completely my work. I'm worried however that when I look for a first-year associate job as a 3L (i'm aware of how improbable that is), that employers will not want someone who hasn't had training as a summer associate...

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Grizz
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Re: What are the options after striking out?

Postby Grizz » Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:04 pm

GermX wrote:Good point. I can probably get one considering how many of them there are (and by them I mean unpaid internships, I'm aware the paid ones are competitive). Still, my last government internship wasn't very helpful in that regard. I mean the work I did will have an insanely huge effect on D.C. (not exaggerating at all), but it didn't impress employers apparantly :\.

I'm serious about trying to get a $10 an hour "law clerk" or whatever position with a small firm. They might hire you or know someone who will. Federal govt. is not hiring.

GermX
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Re: What are the options after striking out?

Postby GermX » Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:06 pm

^ When I say federal internship, what I mean is unpaid. I know paid positions aren't there.

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Grizz
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Re: What are the options after striking out?

Postby Grizz » Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:10 pm

GermX wrote:^ When I say federal internship, what I mean is unpaid. I know paid positions aren't there.

I know. I still think trying to work for a smaller firm during the year would be a better option.

GermX
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Re: What are the options after striking out?

Postby GermX » Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:13 pm

Well I could do that during the Spring. But I'm trying to figure out what summer experience would be better. Do you really think working for a small law firm as a law clerk, filing papers all day, is going to net me a job as a 3L? I've done that before for a small firm and they rarely used me for work that didn't involve making new folders and putting papers in them. I need experience where I can go to an interview and talk about actual responsibilities and results...

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Re: What are the options after striking out?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:15 pm

GermX wrote:Good point. I can probably get one considering how many of them there are (and by them I mean unpaid internships, I'm aware the paid ones are competitive). Still, my last government internship wasn't very helpful in that regard. I mean the work I did will have an insanely huge effect on D.C. (not exaggerating at all), but it didn't impress employers apparantly :\.

How is fed. govt. type work NOT what lawyers do?


Because a lot of it involves policy-type legal work instead of lawyer-type work (i.e. motions etc...). Just from my experience. My previous federal internship involved policy changes that were huge and completely my work. I'm worried however that when I look for a first-year associate job as a 3L (i'm aware of how improbable that is), that employers will not want someone who hasn't had training as a summer associate...

I've done a fairly large number of federal internships and had many friends do them as well and nearly none report it as policy work unless they were on the Hill or in the policy arm of an agency (OLP/Cong. Affairs) (which is nearly never where the concentration of lawyers are). Nearly every internship is either enforcement-style, compliance-style, or rulemaking. Also, if firms won't want someone without SA-skills, they are even less likely to want someone who interned for a judge when they were in a city that has the DoL/NLRB/FLRA/EEOC/AFL-CIO headquarters. How will interning for a judge show passion about any specific area of law (since that is where most of the tiny 3L hiring is done), let alone convince them that you have any applicable skills in that area?

I do agree working for a small firm would be a good option and I have some friends doing that, the only dangers I can see there is being pegged more as a contract doc reviewer than a substantive skilled clerk and that it is harder to figure out where those jobs are then it is to use a federal directory.

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Grizz
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Re: What are the options after striking out?

Postby Grizz » Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:15 pm

GermX wrote:Well I could do that during the Spring. But I'm trying to figure out what summer experience would be better. Do you really think working for a small law firm as a law clerk, filing papers all day, is going to net me a job as a 3L? I've done that before for a small firm and they rarely used me for work that didn't involve making new folders and putting papers in them. I need experience where I can go to an interview and talk about actual responsibilities and results...

Ideally you want a small firm that will give you that experience.

GermX
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Re: What are the options after striking out?

Postby GermX » Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:18 pm

Alright so two options sound good: federal and small firm. I'll talk to the CDO and start applying more heavily than I already have been for federal positions.

Do you guys think I should focus exclusively on DC? Is there a danger in doing a federal internship in NYC for example?

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Re: What are the options after striking out?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:42 pm

GermX wrote:Alright so two options sound good: federal and small firm. I'll talk to the CDO and start applying more heavily than I already have been for federal positions.

Do you guys think I should focus exclusively on DC? Is there a danger in doing a federal internship in NYC for example?

I'm a life-long NYer and even my first thought was "what federal jobs are there in NYC?" Sure there are regional offices for EPA, SEC, Fed Reserve, etc, but trying to coordinate interviews while you are in law school in DC with the very very small number of spots that are conceivably available in NYC seems like a waste of time and effort resources (especially given you'll be competing with top students from Hofstra, St. Johns, Pace, Brooklyn and bottom of the class at CLS, NYU, and Yale). A quick and sloppy search of the LD says there are 5,650 agency-entities in DC and 156 in NYC and over 100,000 federal employees in DC v. ~1,500 in NYC.

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Re: What are the options after striking out?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:43 pm

Best plan is to get a smaller law firm position and work there steadily until you graduate and they'll consider taking you on. I go to GW. I'm a 3L and I have 3 friends that got positions like that. If you feel that they're just making you do doc review or don't really value you, you should leave. Just keep looking at symplicity.

GermX
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Re: What are the options after striking out?

Postby GermX » Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:06 pm

So where is the best source for small firm positions? For both DC and NYC?

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Grizz
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Re: What are the options after striking out?

Postby Grizz » Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Best plan is to get a smaller law firm position and work there steadily until you graduate and they'll consider taking you on. I go to GW. I'm a 3L and I have 3 friends that got positions like that. If you feel that they're just making you do doc review or don't really value you, you should leave. Just keep looking at symplicity.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Either they hire you, or they can put you in touch w someone who can.

GermX
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Re: What are the options after striking out?

Postby GermX » Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:12 pm

Thanks guys, I'll do both: look for federal and small firm, and seems like my best bet is to prioritize a small firm job if I'm lucky to get one!

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Grizz
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Re: What are the options after striking out?

Postby Grizz » Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:15 pm

GermX wrote:Thanks guys, I'll do both: look for federal and small firm, and seems like my best bet is to prioritize a small firm job if I'm lucky to get one!

Good call bro

OnceUponAMemo
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Re: What are the options after striking out?

Postby OnceUponAMemo » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:24 pm

Grizz wrote:
GermX wrote:Well I could do that during the Spring. But I'm trying to figure out what summer experience would be better. Do you really think working for a small law firm as a law clerk, filing papers all day, is going to net me a job as a 3L? I've done that before for a small firm and they rarely used me for work that didn't involve making new folders and putting papers in them. I need experience where I can go to an interview and talk about actual responsibilities and results...

Ideally you want a small firm that will give you that experience.


I think this is good advice. Sorry for the low blow before, but in all sincerity, good luck to you and I wish you the best. Legal hiring is a crazy mo fo right now.




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