Exit Options/Prestige Drop with Cleary vs. DPW/S&C?

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Is there a drop in prestige and exit options going with Cleary vs. DPW/S&C?

Yes, DPW and S&C are just a cut above.
18
43%
No, they're all in the same league.
24
57%
 
Total votes: 42

Anonymous User
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Exit Options/Prestige Drop with Cleary vs. DPW/S&C?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 04, 2011 4:15 pm

Debating among these 3. Really clicked with Cleary, but leaning DPW because it seems safest for exit options after 3-4 years.

Thoughts?

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Re: Exit Options/Prestige Drop with Cleary vs. DPW/S&C?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 04, 2011 4:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Debating among these 3. Really clicked with Cleary, but leaning DPW because it seems safest for exit options after 3-4 years.

Thoughts?


Definitely don't go where you felt a great fit because of what mysterious job opportunities might look like in 3 to 4 years. /facepalm

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Re: Exit Options/Prestige Drop with Cleary vs. DPW/S&C?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 04, 2011 4:39 pm

Ugh. Go to Cleary.

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Re: Exit Options/Prestige Drop with Cleary vs. DPW/S&C?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 04, 2011 4:40 pm

Assuming I know exactly who this is, should definitely go to DPW. He/She will suffocate at Cleary by the lack of prestigious V5 position.

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Re: Exit Options/Prestige Drop with Cleary vs. DPW/S&C?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 04, 2011 4:44 pm

S&C, obviously. It's as far ahead of DPW (2 places) as DPW is ahead of Cleary.

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Blindmelon
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Re: Exit Options/Prestige Drop with Cleary vs. DPW/S&C?

Postby Blindmelon » Tue Oct 04, 2011 4:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:S&C, obviously. It's as far ahead of DPW (2 places) as DPW is ahead of Cleary.


Either hilariously sarcastic, or 0L.

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Re: Exit Options/Prestige Drop with Cleary vs. DPW/S&C?

Postby imchuckbass58 » Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Debating among these 3. Really clicked with Cleary, but leaning DPW because it seems safest for exit options after 3-4 years.

Thoughts?


Seriously?

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Re: Exit Options/Prestige Drop with Cleary vs. DPW/S&C?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:S&C, obviously. It's as far ahead of DPW (2 places) as DPW is ahead of Cleary.

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YourCaptain
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Re: Exit Options/Prestige Drop with Cleary vs. DPW/S&C?

Postby YourCaptain » Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:18 pm

you'll never make partner coming from cleary; you'll clearly have to settle for Of Counsel at some 40-person family law shop in Stockton after you're pushed out.

go to s&c - i'd suggest dpw but s&c's vault rating is simply superior and that's the only metric relevant to your selection.

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Re: Exit Options/Prestige Drop with Cleary vs. DPW/S&C?

Postby Grizz » Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:22 pm

YourCaptain wrote:you'll never make partner coming from cleary; you'll clearly have to settle for Of Counsel at some 40-person family law shop in Stockton after you're pushed out.

go to s&c - i'd suggest dpw but s&c's vault rating is simply superior and that's the only metric relevant to your selection.

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kwais
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Re: Exit Options/Prestige Drop with Cleary vs. DPW/S&C?

Postby kwais » Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:39 pm

yikes, 1L here who doesn't know a ton about this stuff, but this seemed like a semi-reasonable question that usually gets reasonable answers. This time, you guys really douched it up.

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Re: Exit Options/Prestige Drop with Cleary vs. DPW/S&C?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:43 pm

kwais wrote:yikes, 1L here who doesn't know a ton about this stuff, but this seemed like a semi-reasonable question that usually gets reasonable answers. This time, you guys really douched it up.


This is not a reasonable question given OP's statement that he knows the firm he liked best. Sure, if you have no other way to evaluate these firms, then preftige comes into play. But if you know where you want to be, the idea that "exit options" govern your decision are moronic. Come back after you do a job search.

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Re: Exit Options/Prestige Drop with Cleary vs. DPW/S&C?

Postby kwais » Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
kwais wrote:yikes, 1L here who doesn't know a ton about this stuff, but this seemed like a semi-reasonable question that usually gets reasonable answers. This time, you guys really douched it up.


This is not a reasonable question given OP's statement that he knows the firm he liked best. Sure, if you have no other way to evaluate these firms, then preftige comes into play. But if you know where you want to be, the idea that "exit options" govern your decision are moronic. Come back after you do a job search.


whatever man, I've read many comments on here along the lines of "don't be fooled by issues of fit, they all work you hard and what you should really be thinking about is where you want to be 3-5 years down the line". Just wondering why that all of a sudden doesn't apply?

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Re: Exit Options/Prestige Drop with Cleary vs. DPW/S&C?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:49 pm

kwais wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
kwais wrote:yikes, 1L here who doesn't know a ton about this stuff, but this seemed like a semi-reasonable question that usually gets reasonable answers. This time, you guys really douched it up.


This is not a reasonable question given OP's statement that he knows the firm he liked best. Sure, if you have no other way to evaluate these firms, then preftige comes into play. But if you know where you want to be, the idea that "exit options" govern your decision are moronic. Come back after you do a job search.


whatever man, I've read many comments on here along the lines of "don't be fooled by issues of fit, they all work you hard and what you should really be thinking about is where you want to be 3-5 years down the line". Just wondering why that all of a sudden doesn't apply?


Because the exit option differences between all these firms are so marginal as to be completely irrelevant, Vault Slave. Office location would be more important of a consideration.

imchuckbass58
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Re: Exit Options/Prestige Drop with Cleary vs. DPW/S&C?

Postby imchuckbass58 » Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:49 pm

kwais wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
kwais wrote:yikes, 1L here who doesn't know a ton about this stuff, but this seemed like a semi-reasonable question that usually gets reasonable answers. This time, you guys really douched it up.


This is not a reasonable question given OP's statement that he knows the firm he liked best. Sure, if you have no other way to evaluate these firms, then preftige comes into play. But if you know where you want to be, the idea that "exit options" govern your decision are moronic. Come back after you do a job search.


whatever man, I've read many comments on here along the lines of "don't be fooled by issues of fit, they all work you hard and what you should really be thinking about is where you want to be 3-5 years down the line". Just wondering why that all of a sudden doesn't apply?


Because there's no actual difference in prestige between these three firms.

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Re: Exit Options/Prestige Drop with Cleary vs. DPW/S&C?

Postby kaiser » Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:51 pm

kwais wrote:yikes, 1L here who doesn't know a ton about this stuff, but this seemed like a semi-reasonable question that usually gets reasonable answers. This time, you guys really douched it up.


How could this possibly seem reasonable to you? They are all elite firms with excellent exit opportunities and sterling prestige. They are indistinguishable with regard to those factors. The tangible differences will be in fit, practice areas, etc. But this is splitting hairs to the extreme.

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kwais
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Re: Exit Options/Prestige Drop with Cleary vs. DPW/S&C?

Postby kwais » Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:55 pm

See what I made you all do there? You gave a real answer. Get off your high horses. I have seen detailed accounts on this site of very different kinds of exit options from equally ranked firms. Oh and Vault Slave? yeah, you got me, good one.

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Grizz
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Re: Exit Options/Prestige Drop with Cleary vs. DPW/S&C?

Postby Grizz » Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:55 pm

kwais wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
kwais wrote:yikes, 1L here who doesn't know a ton about this stuff, but this seemed like a semi-reasonable question that usually gets reasonable answers. This time, you guys really douched it up.


This is not a reasonable question given OP's statement that he knows the firm he liked best. Sure, if you have no other way to evaluate these firms, then preftige comes into play. But if you know where you want to be, the idea that "exit options" govern your decision are moronic. Come back after you do a job search.


whatever man, I've read many comments on here along the lines of "don't be fooled by issues of fit, they all work you hard and what you should really be thinking about is where you want to be 3-5 years down the line". Just wondering why that all of a sudden doesn't apply?

Mainly because "exit options" without more is meaningless, and people usually use it as a veiled way to say "prestige." And a lot more stuff goes into exit options than just prestige. What do you want to exit to? Example: you want to exit to say 2ndary market to do commercial litigation. Don't go to to a place like Schulte that prides itself on hedge fund work (mainly happens in NYC).

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Grizz
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Re: Exit Options/Prestige Drop with Cleary vs. DPW/S&C?

Postby Grizz » Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:56 pm

kwais wrote:yikes, 1L here who doesn't know a ton about this stuff, but this seemed like a semi-reasonable question that usually gets reasonable answers. This time, you guys really douched it up.

Also, given the amt. of info OP gave, this seldom gets a reasonable answer.

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kwais
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Re: Exit Options/Prestige Drop with Cleary vs. DPW/S&C?

Postby kwais » Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:59 pm

Grizz wrote:
kwais wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
kwais wrote:yikes, 1L here who doesn't know a ton about this stuff, but this seemed like a semi-reasonable question that usually gets reasonable answers. This time, you guys really douched it up.


This is not a reasonable question given OP's statement that he knows the firm he liked best. Sure, if you have no other way to evaluate these firms, then preftige comes into play. But if you know where you want to be, the idea that "exit options" govern your decision are moronic. Come back after you do a job search.


whatever man, I've read many comments on here along the lines of "don't be fooled by issues of fit, they all work you hard and what you should really be thinking about is where you want to be 3-5 years down the line". Just wondering why that all of a sudden doesn't apply?

Mainly because "exit options" without more is meaningless, and people usually use it as a veiled way to say "prestige." And a lot more stuff goes into exit options than just prestige. What do you want to exit to? Example: you want to exit to say 2ndary market to do commercial litigation. Don't go to to a place like Schulte that prides itself on hedge fund work (mainly happens in NYC).


makes sense

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Re: Exit Options/Prestige Drop with Cleary vs. DPW/S&C?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:00 pm

I was faced with a *similar* decision, and I had the benefit of speaking to a lot of partners with whom I'd worked in my pre-LS job. The consensus was that the S&C/DPW/CSM grouping was a little higher on the preftige scale. Granted, these were old guys--the same types that think NYU is second-rate to CLS (I consulted them during the LS selection process, too--ended up at NYU, heh), but it's worth noting. I imagine their opinion is rooted only in the fact that the other three have been around longer.

In any case, the distinction is so slight that the other factors (like the fact that OP really clicked with the Cleary folks) should easily tie-break.

Renzo
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Re: Exit Options/Prestige Drop with Cleary vs. DPW/S&C?

Postby Renzo » Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:05 pm

How do you people get through life? Do you pick up some sort of consumer reports guide to paper products before you go shopping so that you can make sure you get the most prestigious toilet paper? Have you ever in your life made a decision for yourself, or do you just do whatever people tell you, so long as they tell you in an ordered list?

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Re: Exit Options/Prestige Drop with Cleary vs. DPW/S&C?

Postby kaiser » Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:09 pm

Renzo wrote:How do you people get through life? Do you pick up some sort of consumer reports guide to paper products before you go shopping so that you can make sure you get the most prestigious toilet paper? Have you ever in your life made a decision for yourself, or do you just do whatever people tell you, so long as they tell you in an ordered list?


Amen. I can understand using the rankings for picking a school, since it is a means to an end. But extrapolating it out so religiously for purposes of picking a job is a bit much. I understand that people switch jobs often, and want to have a prestigious resume line to work off of, but it seemingly never ends, and it too often blinds people to what their true priorities are or should ideally be. Law school has a way of turning us all into mice chasing a piece of cheese. Why does this happen? Because they told us we are mice, and they encourage us to chase the cheese. And we listen.

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Re: Exit Options/Prestige Drop with Cleary vs. DPW/S&C?

Postby rayiner » Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I was faced with a *similar* decision, and I had the benefit of speaking to a lot of partners with whom I'd worked in my pre-LS job. The consensus was that the S&C/DPW/CSM grouping was a little higher on the preftige scale. Granted, these were old guys--the same types that think NYU is second-rate to CLS (I consulted them during the LS selection process, too--ended up at NYU, heh), but it's worth noting. I imagine their opinion is rooted only in the fact that the other three have been around longer.


That was the CW in the 1990s, when nobody would've put Cleary in the top-tier of NYC corporate firms. In the last 15-20 years, however, Cleary has developed top-notch capital markets and M&A practices. Meanwhile, Cravath became "just another V5," moving the whole V2-V7 grouping close together with only WLRK being in a really different league in prestige and selectivity.

DPW and S&C are still slightly better firms in that they have a somewhat wider range top-tier practice areas, but I can't imagine that having a measurable impact on exit options. Remember, when you start looking for another job, you'll be interacting with recruiters. Recruiters know the lay of the land, they know the "current CW," and they know that Cleary by and large hires from exactly the same pool of people as CSM/S&C/DPW/STB.
Last edited by rayiner on Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Exit Options/Prestige Drop with Cleary vs. DPW/S&C?

Postby kwais » Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:15 pm

Renzo wrote:How do you people get through life? Do you pick up some sort of consumer reports guide to paper products before you go shopping so that you can make sure you get the most prestigious toilet paper? Have you ever in your life made a decision for yourself, or do you just do whatever people tell you, so long as they tell you in an ordered list?


a bit much perhaps?




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