Cancelling same day as CB scheduled - thoughts?

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Cancelling same day as CB scheduled - thoughts?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 25, 2011 6:07 pm

This might be a moot point in the end, but I'm fairly certain I will be getting an offer on Monday from one (or both) of my top two choices. I also have a CB scheduled for Monday afternoon at a V50, but one I'm not terribly keen on, just trying to keep my options open as I don't have an offer as of yet.

If I get the phone call Monday morning, is it proper to cancel the CB if I would never take an offer from the CB over my top two choices? I feel like it saves both the firm and myself a lot of time, but I fear its just bad form.

Advice?

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Re: Cancelling same day as CB scheduled - thoughts?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:08 pm

Bad form, bro. Go on the callback, smile, wait a few days, then withdraw yourself from consideration.


Anonymous User wrote:I'm fairly certain I will be getting an offer on Monday from one (or both) of my top two choices.

Restraining myself from commenting on this...

azntwice
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Re: Cancelling same day as CB scheduled - thoughts?

Postby azntwice » Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:10 pm

Agreed, don't do it.

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Re: Cancelling same day as CB scheduled - thoughts?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Bad form, bro. Go on the callback, smile, wait a few days, then withdraw yourself from consideration.


Anonymous User wrote:I'm fairly certain I will be getting an offer on Monday from one (or both) of my top two choices.

Restraining myself from commenting on this...


i'm sorry, i have to take the bait here...how are you "fairly certain"? absent a phone call/email from someone on the hiring committee basically telling you that you're a sure thing, i just don't see how even the most well-qualified applicant could be that confident, especially given the crapshoot that is SA hiring.

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Re: Cancelling same day as CB scheduled - thoughts?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:12 pm

NALP guidelines say you should cancel at least two days in advance. While technically violating NALP guidelines may not immediately effect you b/c you will already have an offer, it's just bad form. You should never burn bridges with a firm because you never know how it may come back to bite you in the ass. Just be professional and go, enjoy the free meal and relax in knowing that you don't need their offer.

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Re: Cancelling same day as CB scheduled - thoughts?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:15 pm

Only cancel if you have actually accepted an offer from another firm, for your scenario. The fact that you might have two other offers in hand - that are not yet accepted - seems like you should attend the CB.

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Re: Cancelling same day as CB scheduled - thoughts?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Bad form, bro. Go on the callback, smile, wait a few days, then withdraw yourself from consideration.


Anonymous User wrote:I'm fairly certain I will be getting an offer on Monday from one (or both) of my top two choices.

Restraining myself from commenting on this...


i'm sorry, i have to take the bait here...how are you "fairly certain"? absent a phone call/email from someone on the hiring committee basically telling you that you're a sure thing, i just don't see how even the most well-qualified applicant could be that confident, especially given the crapshoot that is SA hiring.


I once had a callback at a huge NY firm that I was comfortably statistically qualified for. At the end of the visit, the hiring partner, who had interviewed me earlier, came to me and said that I was the exact kind of candidate the firm was looking for. He said it while passionately shaking my hand, and with a facial expression that resembled crying out of joy. I too thought that I did well during the callback.

I got a ding a few days later. And no, there was nothing wrong with my thank-you notes (which worked for many other firms).

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Re: Cancelling same day as CB scheduled - thoughts?

Postby seatown12 » Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:NALP guidelines say you should cancel at least two days in advance. While technically violating NALP guidelines may not immediately effect you b/c you will already have an offer, it's just bad form. You should never burn bridges with a firm because you never know how it may come back to bite you in the ass. Just be professional and go, enjoy the free meal and relax in knowing that you don't need their offer.

much more respectful and considerate to make them buy you a meal than to let them know that you aren't even considering them before they expend the time and money

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Re: Cancelling same day as CB scheduled - thoughts?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Bad form, bro. Go on the callback, smile, wait a few days, then withdraw yourself from consideration.

Anonymous User wrote:I'm fairly certain I will be getting an offer on Monday from one (or both) of my top two choices.

Restraining myself from commenting on this...


i'm sorry, i have to take the bait here...how are you "fairly certain"? absent a phone call/email from someone on the hiring committee basically telling you that you're a sure thing, i just don't see how even the most well-qualified applicant could be that confident, especially given the crapshoot that is SA hiring.


Indeed, I did get a phone call from one of the firms on Friday at like 5 o'clock and they said they'd be in touch on Monday. It was really confusing to me, so I'm thinking positive. I'm not sure why that wasn't the offer right there - but they could have just dinged me via email if that were the case. Maybe they have some internal paperwork/red tape to take care of before making the official call? Maybe the hiring partner wasn't available, so the recruiter called? I don't know. For the other, it is just a feeling based on how we clicked, the money they spent to fly me out, and how fast they said they'd be getting back to me. Still, it could just be a swift ding. Just trying to stay positive as the USS Worried is not a fun place to be.

I guess I should have just asked the question in general, without saying "fairly certain." Tough to balance the "think positively" attitude with the "be realistic" attitude. I have three callbacks this week so the situation might arise on Tuesday or Thursday.

The fact that *everyone* is in agreement on this one, looks like I'll be going regardless of an offer tomorrow.

Anonymous User wrote:NALP guidelines say you should cancel at least two days in advance. While technically violating NALP guidelines may not immediately effect you b/c you will already have an offer, it's just bad form. You should never burn bridges with a firm because you never know how it may come back to bite you in the ass. Just be professional and go, enjoy the free meal and relax in knowing that you don't need their offer.


NALP guidelines also mention only going on a CB you actually might take. Maybe they were only talking about initially accepting the CB.

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Re: Cancelling same day as CB scheduled - thoughts?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:09 pm

seatown12 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:NALP guidelines say you should cancel at least two days in advance. While technically violating NALP guidelines may not immediately effect you b/c you will already have an offer, it's just bad form. You should never burn bridges with a firm because you never know how it may come back to bite you in the ass. Just be professional and go, enjoy the free meal and relax in knowing that you don't need their offer.

much more respectful and considerate to make them buy you a meal than to let them know that you aren't even considering them before they expend the time and money


Indeed, the meal and 3 hours of time that the firm could be billing are not insignificant. Does it change anything if they sent me my schedule an hour ago? Lol.

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Re: Cancelling same day as CB scheduled - thoughts?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:This might be a moot point in the end, but I'm fairly certain I will be getting an offer on Monday from one (or both) of my top two choices. I also have a CB scheduled for Monday afternoon at a V50, but one I'm not terribly keen on, just trying to keep my options open as I don't have an offer as of yet.

If I get the phone call Monday morning, is it proper to cancel the CB if I would never take an offer from the CB over my top two choices? I feel like it saves both the firm and myself a lot of time, but I fear its just bad form.

Advice?


I know non-aspie people who have gotten no-offered off callback by 5-10 firms that they were statistically qualified for. I have a fried with sick grades at CCN, fluency in two languages, extremely engaging and great work experience who has been rejected/ waitlisted by a ton of firms that he felt were below him. His only offers are from firms he did not think he wanted.

I actually would be really nervous if I were you because you are sitting at the tail-end of firms' hiring cycles. Your position is similar to students who apply to law school in February.

Good luck.

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Re: Cancelling same day as CB scheduled - thoughts?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:20 pm

I would just go, since I learned my lesson from this. I sent an email at the end of the day saying I would like to cancel the next day's interview. The recruiter didn't check his email prior to the interview and I got a super awkward call asking why I didn't show up to my interview. I had to explain that I sent the email last night explaining the situation. Its not the end of the world since I already have some offers from firms I liked more. But in retrospect, I could have just sucked it up and gone.

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Re: Cancelling same day as CB scheduled - thoughts?

Postby BaiAilian2013 » Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:21 pm

If you've accepted an offer, you have to cancel no matter what, regardless of notice. But otherwise, it's rude to cancel same day, and your school may also have a policy on it. Just go with the attitude that who knows, they might blow you away.

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Re: Cancelling same day as CB scheduled - thoughts?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:23 pm

I canceled same day first thing in the morning when I had an offer in hand. Don't cancel without an offer. Go to the interview and do your absolute best, as though it is your only chance of getting a job. Because at this point it might be.

mrloblaw
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Re: Cancelling same day as CB scheduled - thoughts?

Postby mrloblaw » Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I canceled same day first thing in the morning when I had an offer in hand. Don't cancel without an offer. Go to the interview and do your absolute best, as though it is your only chance of getting a job. Because at this point it might be.

+1. If you don't have an offer, canceling interviews is insane, unless you'd rather not be in biglaw at all than work at that place.

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Re: Cancelling same day as CB scheduled - thoughts?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:38 pm

mrloblaw wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I canceled same day first thing in the morning when I had an offer in hand. Don't cancel without an offer. Go to the interview and do your absolute best, as though it is your only chance of getting a job. Because at this point it might be.

+1. If you don't have an offer, canceling interviews is insane, unless you'd rather not be in biglaw at all than work at that place.


I agree it would be insane. Not OPs question though.

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Re: Cancelling same day as CB scheduled - thoughts?

Postby mrloblaw » Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
mrloblaw wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I canceled same day first thing in the morning when I had an offer in hand. Don't cancel without an offer. Go to the interview and do your absolute best, as though it is your only chance of getting a job. Because at this point it might be.

+1. If you don't have an offer, canceling interviews is insane, unless you'd rather not be in biglaw at all than work at that place.


I agree it would be insane. Not OPs question though.


Reading comprehension FTL.

Good luck getting that 10am offer, OP.

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Re: Cancelling same day as CB scheduled - thoughts?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
I know non-aspie people who have gotten no-offered off callback by 5-10 firms that they were statistically qualified for. I have a fried with sick grades at CCN, fluency in two languages, extremely engaging and great work experience who has been rejected/ waitlisted by a ton of firms that he felt were below him. His only offers are from firms he did not think he wanted.

I actually would be really nervous if I were you because you are sitting at the tail-end of firms' hiring cycles. Your position is similar to students who apply to law school in February.

Good luck.


Yeah, i totally think that's my situation. And indeed I am extremely nervous and have been since August 1. I just want this to be over with already - with offer in hand!

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Re: Cancelling same day as CB scheduled - thoughts?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:56 pm

This is really all a moot point. I'm sure that in the history of the universe firms have called to make offers in the morning, but this has to be the exception and not the rule. Any calls I've gotten have come either around lunchtime (i.e., 12 - 3 pm-ish) or after business hours.

Just for posterity's sake, I'll say that I would vote not to cancel. Two reasons. First, you never, never know if a firm is going to surprise you and be the be all and end all of what you're looking for culturally. Maybe not, maybe not likely, but it happens. Second, it's a good chance to ask questions of people who have been in the business for awhile. If you're sure you already have a job offer, you can still take the opportunity to ask people how they chose firms, practice areas, etc. I went on a callback the Monday after receiving a Friday offer even though I knew the firm was a very unlikely choice, but I thought it was only right to give the firm a chance to change my mind.

At the same time, I would say that it's a choice of evils in terms of whether or not to cancel day of or day before, but if being polite is your only goal, I suppose cancel. The inconvenience of the recruiter having to email 4-6 people to say they won't need to interview you does not outweigh the inconvenience of having 4-6 people take the time to meet you. They know the business, and if you have your offer, they're not going to spite you for taking it.

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Re: Cancelling same day as CB scheduled - thoughts?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:This is really all a moot point. I'm sure that in the history of the universe firms have called to make offers in the morning, but this has to be the exception and not the rule. Any calls I've gotten have come either around lunchtime (i.e., 12 - 3 pm-ish) or after business hours.

Just for posterity's sake, I'll say that I would vote not to cancel. Two reasons. First, you never, never know if a firm is going to surprise you and be the be all and end all of what you're looking for culturally. Maybe not, maybe not likely, but it happens. Second, it's a good chance to ask questions of people who have been in the business for awhile. If you're sure you already have a job offer, you can still take the opportunity to ask people how they chose firms, practice areas, etc. I went on a callback the Monday after receiving a Friday offer even though I knew the firm was a very unlikely choice, but I thought it was only right to give the firm a chance to change my mind.

At the same time, I would say that it's a choice of evils in terms of whether or not to cancel day of or day before, but if being polite is your only goal, I suppose cancel. The inconvenience of the recruiter having to email 4-6 people to say they won't need to interview you does not outweigh the inconvenience of having 4-6 people take the time to meet you. They know the business, and if you have your offer, they're not going to spite you for taking it.


Moot point indeed. Didn't mean to get people all riled up. After all this, it might be 2pm dings via snail mail. Just wanted that satisfaction of cancelling a CB. Probably not gonna happen.

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Re: Cancelling same day as CB scheduled - thoughts?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:This is really all a moot point. I'm sure that in the history of the universe firms have called to make offers in the morning, but this has to be the exception and not the rule. Any calls I've gotten have come either around lunchtime (i.e., 12 - 3 pm-ish) or after business hours.

Just for posterity's sake, I'll say that I would vote not to cancel. Two reasons. First, you never, never know if a firm is going to surprise you and be the be all and end all of what you're looking for culturally. Maybe not, maybe not likely, but it happens. Second, it's a good chance to ask questions of people who have been in the business for awhile. If you're sure you already have a job offer, you can still take the opportunity to ask people how they chose firms, practice areas, etc. I went on a callback the Monday after receiving a Friday offer even though I knew the firm was a very unlikely choice, but I thought it was only right to give the firm a chance to change my mind.

At the same time, I would say that it's a choice of evils in terms of whether or not to cancel day of or day before, but if being polite is your only goal, I suppose cancel. The inconvenience of the recruiter having to email 4-6 people to say they won't need to interview you does not outweigh the inconvenience of having 4-6 people take the time to meet you. They know the business, and if you have your offer, they're not going to spite you for taking it.


i hadn't even thought anything of it til i read your post, but my two v10 offers were both am calls. one around 9:30, one around 11.

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Re: Cancelling same day as CB scheduled - thoughts?

Postby enibs » Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:04 pm

As hard as it may be for you to believe, busy lawyers do not love interviewing law students. And law firms don't make any money interviewing law students. They interview law students in order to get new employees. If there is no chance you will become an employee of their law firm, then they'd rather you cancel your callback, even if it's two minutes before it was supposed to start. The lawyers you were supposed to see will be grateful to be given the "found time".

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Re: Cancelling same day as CB scheduled - thoughts?

Postby DanInALionsDen » Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Bad form, bro. Go on the callback, smile, wait a few days, then withdraw yourself from consideration.

Anonymous User wrote:I'm fairly certain I will be getting an offer on Monday from one (or both) of my top two choices.

Restraining myself from commenting on this...


i'm sorry, i have to take the bait here...how are you "fairly certain"? absent a phone call/email from someone on the hiring committee basically telling you that you're a sure thing, i just don't see how even the most well-qualified applicant could be that confident, especially given the crapshoot that is SA hiring.


Indeed, I did get a phone call from one of the firms on Friday at like 5 o'clock and they said they'd be in touch on Monday. It was really confusing to me, so I'm thinking positive. I'm not sure why that wasn't the offer right there - but they could have just dinged me via email if that were the case. Maybe they have some internal paperwork/red tape to take care of before making the official call? Maybe the hiring partner wasn't available, so the recruiter called? I don't know. For the other, it is just a feeling based on how we clicked, the money they spent to fly me out, and how fast they said they'd be getting back to me. Still, it could just be a swift ding. Just trying to stay positive as the USS Worried is not a fun place to be.

I guess I should have just asked the question in general, without saying "fairly certain." Tough to balance the "think positively" attitude with the "be realistic" attitude. I have three callbacks this week so the situation might arise on Tuesday or Thursday.

The fact that *everyone* is in agreement on this one, looks like I'll be going regardless of an offer tomorrow.

Anonymous User wrote:NALP guidelines say you should cancel at least two days in advance. While technically violating NALP guidelines may not immediately effect you b/c you will already have an offer, it's just bad form. You should never burn bridges with a firm because you never know how it may come back to bite you in the ass. Just be professional and go, enjoy the free meal and relax in knowing that you don't need their offer.


NALP guidelines also mention only going on a CB you actually might take. Maybe they were only talking about initially accepting the CB.


I wish I had this kind of confidence. I'd be making exactly the opposite assumptions if it were me.

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Re: Cancelling same day as CB scheduled - thoughts?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:55 pm

enibs wrote:As hard as it may be for you to believe, busy lawyers do not love interviewing law students. And law firms don't make any money interviewing law students. They interview law students in order to get new employees. If there is no chance you will become an employee of their law firm, then they'd rather you cancel your callback, even if it's two minutes before it was supposed to start. The lawyers you were supposed to see will be grateful to be given the "found time".


Completely agree. Partners and associates have better things to do than meet with students with zero interest in their firm. If an associate is able to leave at 8:00 as opposed to 8:30 that night because you cancelled ten minutes before the interview, they will be grateful.

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Re: Cancelling same day as CB scheduled - thoughts?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:39 am

Anonymous User wrote:
I wish I had this kind of confidence. I'd be making exactly the opposite assumptions if it were me.


Life's more bearable if you think positively. Doesn't affect the outcome, but at least the heart and brain hurt a little less :)




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