Kirkland vs. Hughes Hubbard

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Kirkland vs. Hughes Hubbard

Kirkland
22
56%
Hughes Hubbard
17
44%
 
Total votes: 39

Anonymous User
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Re: Kirkland vs. Hughes Hubbard

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:01 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Many firms go to great pains to make summer experiences unlike actual work.


I don't think anyone pretends that a junior associate at any big law firm won't do at least some doc review, and anyone who goes into a big firm expecting not to do any needs a reality check. As someone who was a summer associate and is now an associate, I can tell you a couple differences:

1) No more free lunches and dinners.
2) More hours.
3) More doc review.
4) No more summer events, though my firm has a lot of social events.

The atmosphere hasn't changed, however. People are just as friendly as when I was a summer, partners are just as respectful, and associates are just as collegial. While it's certainly possible for firms to paint a rosy picture on the callback, it's almost impossible for them to paint said picture during the summer associate program. You will inevitably encounter the disgruntled associates and find out about the dark side of the firm. Happy to say that I didn't find one aside from the usual universal biglaw complaints, and that my experience hasn't really differed from a cultural perspective.


Is it safe to assume you're a Kirkland associate?


No. But I know enough who work in the New York office and have worked with enough of them to know that quakeroats is full of shit.


ty

-future Kirkland associate

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quakeroats
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Re: Kirkland vs. Hughes Hubbard

Postby quakeroats » Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:08 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Many firms go to great pains to make summer experiences unlike actual work.


I don't think anyone pretends that a junior associate at any big law firm won't do at least some doc review, and anyone who goes into a big firm expecting not to do any needs a reality check. As someone who was a summer associate and is now an associate, I can tell you a couple differences:

1) No more free lunches and dinners.
2) More hours.
3) More doc review.
4) No more summer events, though my firm has a lot of social events.

The atmosphere hasn't changed, however. People are just as friendly as when I was a summer, partners are just as respectful, and associates are just as collegial. While it's certainly possible for firms to paint a rosy picture on the callback, it's almost impossible for them to paint said picture during the summer associate program. You will inevitably encounter the disgruntled associates and find out about the dark side of the firm. Happy to say that I didn't find one aside from the usual universal biglaw complaints, and that my experience hasn't really differed from a cultural perspective.


Is it safe to assume you're a Kirkland associate?


No. But I know enough who work in the New York office and have worked with enough of them to know that quakeroats is full of shit.


K&E is a big firm. Perhaps we're just talking to different people--this is a real possibility as I haven't talked to any litigators. To restate my points:

1. Based on his criteria, the OP should go to HH.
2. Generally (e.g., if you aren't particularly interested in bankruptcy), it's better to stay away from K&E NY as an associate.

Anonymous User
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Re: Kirkland vs. Hughes Hubbard

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:09 am

2. Generally (e.g., if you aren't particularly interested in bankruptcy), it's better to stay away from K&E NY.


And why is that?

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quakeroats
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Re: Kirkland vs. Hughes Hubbard

Postby quakeroats » Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:16 am

Anonymous User wrote:
2. Generally (e.g., if you aren't particularly interested in bankruptcy), it's better to stay away from K&E NY.


And why is that?


It would depend on what one wanted. I use "generally" to include most people who will get an offer from K&E and also want to work in New York. If you can get an offer there, you can generally get a "better" one elsewhere.

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rayiner
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Re: Kirkland vs. Hughes Hubbard

Postby rayiner » Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:22 am

quakeroats wrote:
rayiner wrote:
quakeroats wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
You're in for quite a surprise next fall.


Man, it's amazing how you know that considering you haven't worked anywhere as an associate yet.


Empiricism died a long time ago. I suspect you can figure out how I know what I've mentioned (even though you aren't me).


Considering you talk as if you have the inside scoop on a wide range of firms, along with detailed knowledge of career trajectories and exit options throughout the industry, I can only hypothesize that you're actually Partner Emeritus, and are sharing with TLS the wisdom you've acquired after decades in the legal industry and stints at all of the top New York firms.

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quakeroats
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Re: Kirkland vs. Hughes Hubbard

Postby quakeroats » Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:33 am

rayiner wrote:
rayiner wrote:
quakeroats wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
You're in for quite a surprise next fall.
Man, it's amazing how you know that considering you haven't worked anywhere as an associate yet.


Empiricism died a long time ago. I suspect you can figure out how I know what I've mentioned (even though you aren't me).


Considering you talk as if you have the inside scoop on a wide range of firms, along with detailed knowledge of career trajectories and exit options throughout the industry, I can only hypothesize that you're actually Partner Emeritus, and are sharing with TLS the wisdom you've acquired after decades in the legal industry and stints at all of the top New York firms.


I wouldn't go that far, but I think it's fair to say I've put more into this than most. I'm paying particular attention to OP's desire to stay long term. If you're planning to be out in 18-48 months, the issues I've mentioned aren't all that important.

Anonymous User
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Re: Kirkland vs. Hughes Hubbard

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:25 am

Dude, this anti k and e trolling needs to chill out. I have worked with k and e for two years as a paralegal, gone through a trial or two, billed hours like most straight-from-undergrad potential SAs haven't, and am going back to k and e as an SA this summer. Kirkland is a great place to work. Caveat: if you are shy, it will be tough. If you are quiet, it will be tough. If you have a general social attitude and happy to talk to people over coffee in the am and get lunch with people and have an overall outgoing attitude? K and e is a phenomenal firm, I have been extremely happy there. If you want to talk day to day there (albeit in a west coast office), let me know and I will pm you.

All I ask is you take the anti k and e trolling with a grain of salt.

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Helmholtz
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Re: Kirkland vs. Hughes Hubbard

Postby Helmholtz » Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:29 am

Anonymous User wrote:All I ask is you take the anti k and e trolling with a grain of salt.


It's coming from quakeroats. Everybody already takes what he says with a grain of salt. It seems like he got bored with telling people what a shithole Cravath is, and has moved on to warning people about Kirkland.

StyrofoamWar
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Re: Kirkland vs. Hughes Hubbard

Postby StyrofoamWar » Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:39 am

Helmholtz wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:All I ask is you take the anti k and e trolling with a grain of salt.


It's coming from quakeroats. Everybody already takes what he says with a grain of salt. It seems like he got bored with telling people what a shithole Cravath is, and has moved on to warning people about Kirkland.


Wisdom from on high. Same anon poster quoted.

Pm me if you want to chat about Kirkland. Should have been non-anon earlier.

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rayiner
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Re: Kirkland vs. Hughes Hubbard

Postby rayiner » Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:21 am

Helmholtz wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:All I ask is you take the anti k and e trolling with a grain of salt.


It's coming from quakeroats. Everybody already takes what he says with a grain of salt. It seems like he got bored with telling people what a shithole Cravath is, and has moved on to warning people about Kirkland.


Since he's clearly worked at all of these places, quakeroats should do a TLS article detailing the inside scoop at:

Cravath
K&E
Skadden
Weil
Quinn
Jones Day
Simpson Thacher
Sullivan & Cromwell

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quakeroats
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Re: Kirkland vs. Hughes Hubbard

Postby quakeroats » Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:22 am

StyrofoamWar wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:All I ask is you take the anti k and e trolling with a grain of salt.


It's coming from quakeroats. Everybody already takes what he says with a grain of salt. It seems like he got bored with telling people what a shithole Cravath is, and has moved on to warning people about Kirkland.


Wisdom from on high.


Helm at the helm. He doesn't seem to get conditional guidance, but I like him anyway.

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quakeroats
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Re: Kirkland vs. Hughes Hubbard

Postby quakeroats » Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:23 am

rayiner wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:All I ask is you take the anti k and e trolling with a grain of salt.


It's coming from quakeroats. Everybody already takes what he says with a grain of salt. It seems like he got bored with telling people what a shithole Cravath is, and has moved on to warning people about Kirkland.


Since he's clearly worked at all of these places, quakeroats should do a TLS article detailing the inside scoop at:

Cravath
K&E
Skadden
Weil
Quinn
Jones Day
Simpson Thacher
Sullivan & Cromwell


Quinn and Simpson ftw.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273128
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Kirkland vs. Hughes Hubbard

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 25, 2011 5:01 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Many firms go to great pains to make summer experiences unlike actual work.


I don't think anyone pretends that a junior associate at any big law firm won't do at least some doc review, and anyone who goes into a big firm expecting not to do any needs a reality check. As someone who was a summer associate and is now an associate, I can tell you a couple differences:

1) No more free lunches and dinners.
2) More hours.
3) More doc review.
4) No more summer events, though my firm has a lot of social events.

The atmosphere hasn't changed, however. People are just as friendly as when I was a summer, partners are just as respectful, and associates are just as collegial. While it's certainly possible for firms to paint a rosy picture on the callback, it's almost impossible for them to paint said picture during the summer associate program. You will inevitably encounter the disgruntled associates and find out about the dark side of the firm. Happy to say that I didn't find one aside from the usual universal biglaw complaints, and that my experience hasn't really differed from a cultural perspective.


Is it safe to assume you're a Kirkland associate?


No. But I know enough who work in the New York office and have worked with enough of them to know that quakeroats is full of shit.


QO has a cute MO, but having almost chosen KE, and having friends that did both this past summer and for next, he's absolutely full of it. It's a cute schtick, though, and I'm sure he's pleased with himself in continuing it. For those of us who have seen KE, it's a fantastic firm (albeit with it's own hierarchy and problems) that folks shouldn't stop considering (not that they would) because some troll has decided he doesn't like the culture in a single office. Knowing folks who work at KE in NYC, Chicago and SF, I can say that they all very much enjoy the firm.

Full disclosure: I decided against KE, for another firm in the market in which I was considering. The folks were fantastic, though, and I think I would've very much enjoyed myself there.

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quakeroats
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Re: Kirkland vs. Hughes Hubbard

Postby quakeroats » Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Many firms go to great pains to make summer experiences unlike actual work.


I don't think anyone pretends that a junior associate at any big law firm won't do at least some doc review, and anyone who goes into a big firm expecting not to do any needs a reality check. As someone who was a summer associate and is now an associate, I can tell you a couple differences:

1) No more free lunches and dinners.
2) More hours.
3) More doc review.
4) No more summer events, though my firm has a lot of social events.

The atmosphere hasn't changed, however. People are just as friendly as when I was a summer, partners are just as respectful, and associates are just as collegial. While it's certainly possible for firms to paint a rosy picture on the callback, it's almost impossible for them to paint said picture during the summer associate program. You will inevitably encounter the disgruntled associates and find out about the dark side of the firm. Happy to say that I didn't find one aside from the usual universal biglaw complaints, and that my experience hasn't really differed from a cultural perspective.


Is it safe to assume you're a Kirkland associate?

No. But I know enough who work in the New York office and have worked with enough of them to know that quakeroats is full of shit.


QO has a cute MO, but having almost chosen KE, and having friends that did both this past summer and for next, he's absolutely full of it. It's a cute schtick, though, and I'm sure he's pleased with himself in continuing it. For those of us who have seen KE, it's a fantastic firm (albeit with it's own hierarchy and problems) that folks shouldn't stop considering (not that they would) because some troll has decided he doesn't like the culture in a single office. Knowing folks who work at KE in NYC, Chicago and SF, I can say that they all very much enjoy the firm.

Full disclosure: I decided against KE, for another firm in the market in which I was considering. The folks were fantastic, though, and I think I would've very much enjoyed myself there.


I think your experience argues for my point. I'm not saying K&E NY is a bad choice. My main point is that it isn't even plausibly for the OP. As a minor point, I'd argue that those who can get in as associates probably shouldn't go, not because it's bad in an absolute sense, but because other options in New York tend to be better barring some very specific preferences.

Anonymous User
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Re: Kirkland vs. Hughes Hubbard

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:48 pm

13 to 11, really? I've heard HHR is a great place to work, but Kirkland is a V10, and based on the little info I have, doesn't seem like a bad place to land. Would like to learn more about HHR from the people who voted for it. What makes it so good?

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MrKappus
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Re: Kirkland vs. Hughes Hubbard

Postby MrKappus » Sun Sep 25, 2011 4:10 pm

I'm 90% sure that people ditch on V10's here to improve their prospects, however meagerly, of getting into those firms themselves. Taking a V85 over a V10 is crazy. "Why yes, I'd love to do the exact same amount of work for a less preftigiouf resume line?" Huh???

kaiser
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Re: Kirkland vs. Hughes Hubbard

Postby kaiser » Sun Sep 25, 2011 4:12 pm

MrKappus wrote:I'm 90% sure that people ditch on V10's here to improve their prospects, however meagerly, of getting into those firms themselves. Taking a V85 over a V10 is crazy. "Why yes, I'd love to do the exact same amount of work for a less preftigiouf resume line?" Huh???


Lols all around at this comment. People pick firms for fit, for strengths in certain areas, for geographic preferences, for training programs, etc. This isn't picking a law school. Its not just a matter of picking a building block with a narrow-minded focus of where you will end up next as a result. Your comment shows a complete misundersanding of the more nuances and mature approach one should take ar this stage in the process.

Anonymous User
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Re: Kirkland vs. Hughes Hubbard

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 25, 2011 4:16 pm

i picked kirkland chi and felt really good about it. however, there seems to be a lot of hate for it on this board - should i be worried for this summer?

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Helmholtz
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Re: Kirkland vs. Hughes Hubbard

Postby Helmholtz » Sun Sep 25, 2011 4:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:i picked kirkland chi and felt really good about it. however, there seems to be a lot of hate for it on this board - should i be worried for this summer?


no

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quakeroats
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Re: Kirkland vs. Hughes Hubbard

Postby quakeroats » Sun Sep 25, 2011 4:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:13 to 11, really? I've heard HHR is a great place to work, but Kirkland is a V10, and based on the little info I have, doesn't seem like a bad place to land. Would like to learn more about HHR from the people who voted for it. What makes it so good?


Take five minutes to think about the bolded clauses. Ask yourself if there might be a few unexamined assumptions built in.

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quakeroats
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Re: Kirkland vs. Hughes Hubbard

Postby quakeroats » Sun Sep 25, 2011 4:22 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:i picked kirkland chi and felt really good about it. however, there seems to be a lot of hate for it on this board - should i be worried for this summer?


no


+1, but you're asking the wrong question.

Anonymous User
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Re: Kirkland vs. Hughes Hubbard

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 25, 2011 4:24 pm

quakeroats wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:i picked kirkland chi and felt really good about it. however, there seems to be a lot of hate for it on this board - should i be worried for this summer?


no


+1, but you're asking the wrong question.


so what's the right question?

all i am hoping for is a) a good SA b) offer for fulltime and c) 2-3 years there unless they let me stay billing at 2500

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quakeroats
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Re: Kirkland vs. Hughes Hubbard

Postby quakeroats » Sun Sep 25, 2011 4:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
quakeroats wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:i picked kirkland chi and felt really good about it. however, there seems to be a lot of hate for it on this board - should i be worried for this summer?


no


+1, but you're asking the wrong question.


so what's the right question?

all i am hoping for is a) a good SA b) offer for fulltime and c) 2-3 years there unless they let me stay billing at 2500


You'll get all three. Are you sure that's all you want?

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MrKappus
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Re: Kirkland vs. Hughes Hubbard

Postby MrKappus » Sun Sep 25, 2011 4:27 pm

kaiser wrote:Lols all around at this comment. People pick firms for fit, for strengths in certain areas, for geographic preferences, for training programs, etc. This isn't picking a law school. Its not just a matter of picking a building block with a narrow-minded focus of where you will end up next as a result. Your comment shows a complete misundersanding of the more nuances and mature approach one should take ar this stage in the process.


Uh huh. My immature approach and lack of nuance, assuming no strong preferences about geography or practice area, would seem to provide the best outcome in a career post-biglaw (which is where the vast majority of biglawyers end up). But thanks for your input. Made me "lol" a bit myself.

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MrKappus
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Re: Kirkland vs. Hughes Hubbard

Postby MrKappus » Sun Sep 25, 2011 4:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:c) 2-3 years there unless they let me stay billing at 2500


:shock: at this being a sustainable amount of billables over 4+ years.




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