Was this year worst than last?

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ResIpsa21
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Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby ResIpsa21 » Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:05 am

None of the anecdotal evidence ITT seems particularly useful. Isn't counting the sheer number of summer associates employed in 2012 going to be the best (aka only) way to tell if 2012 is better than 2011? "S&C won't hire below T14 top 10%" or "people at my school with bad GPAs are struggling" doesn't make this year any better or worse than any year before now. The only relevant question in my mind is, "are there more jobs available now than last year?" I have to assume that the answer to this is yes. How could it not be...

Anonymous User
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Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:25 am

At CLS, I can tell you it was an extremely good year overall. I know plenty of non-Stones, non-LR who just killed it.

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Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:29 am

Chicago, at median, 9 callbacks. Some pretty awesome offers.

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Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:31 am

Probably should have been predictable that this would turn into a brag thread. Your one-off anecdotes aren't contributing to the discussion.

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Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:01 am

Anonymous User wrote:As a transfer student at CCN, I thought my results would be more in the range of a top 20-25% student at my new school, but my results look a bit more reflective of a median student

...and the transfer students at CCN still wonder why they're not universally adored by their new classmates.

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Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:05 am

Anonymous User wrote:At CLS, I can tell you it was an extremely good year overall. I know plenty of non-Stones, non-LR who just killed it.

yeah sometimes it seems like everyone here got a V20. I'm thrilled with my V75, but still...

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Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:07 am

I'm at the top of my class at GULC, and I've had success and will be joining a great firm here in DC. In my opinion, at GULC, if you are top of your class you are really in the same position as anyone else at the top of your class until you get to the very top schools, at which point some SLIGHT differences in offer ranges start to show. I think the big difference is what happens once you fall outside the top third, which at GULC means you are facing an uphill battle. For 0ls out there, don't get me wrong, if you are a strong interviewer people from just above median are getting offers at V15s and higher--but they are the exception. I guess my point is, top of your class at a t14 is a homogenous group until you get to HYS, or maybe just a little lower. In my admittedly limited experience, the difference between the schools really appears to show up in how students around or below the median do. At GULC, median and below students are absolutely scrambling. I doubt more than 3 or 4 have any kind of offers in hand.

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Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:37 am

Depends on who you ask. Median HYS with 0 offers.

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Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:19 am

Anonymous User wrote:I'm at the top of my class at GULC, and I've had success and will be joining a great firm here in DC. In my opinion, at GULC, if you are top of your class you are really in the same position as anyone else at the top of your class until you get to the very top schools, at which point some SLIGHT differences in offer ranges start to show. I think the big difference is what happens once you fall outside the top third, which at GULC means you are facing an uphill battle. For 0ls out there, don't get me wrong, if you are a strong interviewer people from just above median are getting offers at V15s and higher--but they are the exception. I guess my point is, top of your class at a t14 is a homogenous group until you get to HYS, or maybe just a little lower. In my admittedly limited experience, the difference between the schools really appears to show up in how students around or below the median do. At GULC, median and below students are absolutely scrambling. I doubt more than 3 or 4 have any kind of offers in hand.


<--- GULC well-below median student with NYC biglaw offer.

Though, I agree with this assessment. Our top 1/3 seems to be doing very well, between 1/3 and median it is hit or miss, and below median is quite bleak. Plus, with our massive class size, that below-median group is HUGE.

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Nicholasnickynic
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Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Nicholasnickynic » Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:21 am

Anonymous User wrote:this year was great for me. there are a lot of new shows premiering now and they are actually pretty decent, so that's looking positive, plus a great new restaurant just opened down the street.


Quote = +1
Use of Anonymous Button to hide because afraid joke might not be funny = -1.

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Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:24 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Julio_El_Chavo wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:All of my below-median T14 friends have at least one offer at this time. The above-median ones are talking about choosing between S&C and Cleary. I think the hiring is up tremendously.


S&C won't even talk to people below the top 10% at the lower t14s.


They are selective, but this isn't true.


See yesterday's ATL story on S&C OCI at Michigan. They had a 3.7 cutoff. That's gotta be around top 10% (someone who knows Michigan's curve better should confirm).

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Bosque
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Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Bosque » Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:25 am

And now the OP feels ever so much worse about not having an offer.

Citizen Genet
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Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Citizen Genet » Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:37 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Julio_El_Chavo wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:All of my below-median T14 friends have at least one offer at this time. The above-median ones are talking about choosing between S&C and Cleary. I think the hiring is up tremendously.


S&C won't even talk to people below the top 10% at the lower t14s.


They are selective, but this isn't true.


See yesterday's ATL story on S&C OCI at Michigan. They had a 3.7 cutoff. That's gotta be around top 10% (someone who knows Michigan's curve better should confirm).


Google FTW. --LinkRemoved--

Curve aims to give 15% of students an A- in a class. Of course how those end up being distributed can mean more or less than 15% average a 3.7, but it's about that.

xcountryjunkie
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Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby xcountryjunkie » Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:40 am

Citizen Genet wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
S&C won't even talk to people below the top 10% at the lower t14s.


They are selective, but this isn't true.


See yesterday's ATL story on S&C OCI at Michigan. They had a 3.7 cutoff. That's gotta be around top 10% (someone who knows Michigan's curve better should confirm).


Google FTW. --LinkRemoved--

Curve aims to give 15% of students an A- in a class. Of course how those end up being distributed can mean more or less than 15% average a 3.7, but it's about that.


You forgot about the 10% that get an A/A+. That means 25% are at A- or better in each class.

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Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:46 am

It is heavily dependent on school - for T20s, it may as well be C/O 2012 OCI.

At my T20 if you're out of the top 1/4 you have no shot whatsoever.

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Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:06 am

Anonymous User wrote:It is heavily dependent on school - for T20s, it may as well be C/O 2012 OCI.

At my T20 if you're out of the top 1/4 you have no shot whatsoever.


Median at T30 and I ended with a V75 offer. Good (management) WE/IP still gives you an edge, even in this market.

Citizen Genet
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Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Citizen Genet » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:19 am

xcountryjunkie wrote:
Citizen Genet wrote:
Google FTW. --LinkRemoved--

Curve aims to give 15% of students an A- in a class. Of course how those end up being distributed can mean more or less than 15% average a 3.7, but it's about that.


You forgot about the 10% that get an A/A+. That means 25% are at A- or better in each class.


Whoops. Thank you. That is significantly higher than the top 10% of the class.

Anonymous User
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Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:22 am

at WUSTL...
I think this year's recruiting is just as bad as last year. I don't really see a change in number of firms that came on campus.

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bjsesq
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Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby bjsesq » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:25 am

I'm still trying to figure out how anyone could know this without having access to placement data. Everyone is too tight lipped at NU to make any judgments about how hiring is increasing or decreasing here.

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Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:28 am

at a T6; not sure about other schools, but here it seems strongly suggestive that interviewing skills mattered much more than grades (save maybe the most selective firms like W&C, Bois, Wachtell, etc.) with a number of people I know at or slightly below median nabbing ridiculous numbers of callbacks and offers at great firms (and the small handful that struck out being all over the place)

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Bronte
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Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Bronte » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:40 am

3.7 at Michigan is somewhere between top 5 and 10%.

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minnbills
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Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby minnbills » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:42 am

Anonymous User wrote:It is heavily dependent on school - for T20s, it may as well be C/O 2012 OCI.

At my T20 if you're out of the top 1/4 you have no shot whatsoever.


That sucks, not even with nlj firms? (As in, not vault but still market?)

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Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:47 am

Anonymous User wrote:at WUSTL...
I think this year's recruiting is just as bad as last year. I don't really see a change in number of firms that came on campus.


WUSTL is a lot different than vandy on up. Here you don't hear people talking about V20s or V50s, you hear people talking about how they got a callback at the local firms that collectively hire about 35 people a year, pay 30K below market and pretend that you won't be worked as hard as Chicago, etc.

Then you have the IP secure people, but they talk about firms that only IP know/care about

Then you have a huge chunk of the class that didn't even get interviews at OCI. I had interviews each day of the week for EIW and only saw the same faces.

Some people don't even seem to know whats going on/or are keeping quite about their striking out

At the end of the day it's hard to tell if this is better or worse than last year

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Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:54 am

minnbills wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:It is heavily dependent on school - for T20s, it may as well be C/O 2012 OCI.

At my T20 if you're out of the top 1/4 you have no shot whatsoever.


That sucks, not even with nlj firms? (As in, not vault but still market?)


Right, because a firm with fewer hours and market pay and a small summer program will be more inclined to hire less-than-top talent?

Not happening man.

Anonymous User
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Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:54 am

+1 to being top third thing at my UT/Vanderbilt.

Top third is basically good for some big or medium sized firm job (barring extenuating factors like ass burgers or terrible interviewing). I'd still throw some mailers out there, but you should get something.

Middle third is fairly undifferentiated. Some people with interesting WE, IP, URM land something. Also people from smaller, parochial markets who never see a student from a higher ranked school (think flyover country) have a better time getting jobs back home.

Bottom third = panic.




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