Was this year worst than last?

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
User avatar
minnbills
Posts: 3153
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:04 pm

Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby minnbills » Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:59 pm

Grizz wrote:Definitely not that bad at Vandy. I'd say based on last yr. that this yr. about 50%+ will get some sort of paid 2L SA with a big or medium sized firm. It was about 50% last yr. and anecdotally, it's been better this yr. You also gotta take into account though at Vandy you'll see a lot of Birmingham, Nashville, and smaller Southern markets, and less traditional V100 Northeast employment. That may be your thing, or it may not be.


top 1/4-ish @ nd; there will of course be people who have serious small-market connections to expand that number to somewhere between 25-33%


That's good to hear. As the application season is starting to take off my anxiety over the labor market is really high- I don't have the #s to crack the T14 and I know I'll probably end up at one of: UMN, BC, Wisc, or WUSTL; I'm just terrified of not finding work.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273256
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:00 pm

Lower t-14, above median, 3 cbs, nothing. Most people I know at my school around the median have nothing.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273256
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:01 pm

minnbills wrote:
Grizz wrote:Definitely not that bad at Vandy. I'd say based on last yr. that this yr. about 50%+ will get some sort of paid 2L SA with a big or medium sized firm. It was about 50% last yr. and anecdotally, it's been better this yr. You also gotta take into account though at Vandy you'll see a lot of Birmingham, Nashville, and smaller Southern markets, and less traditional V100 Northeast employment. That may be your thing, or it may not be.


top 1/4-ish @ nd; there will of course be people who have serious small-market connections to expand that number to somewhere between 25-33%


That's good to hear. As the application season is starting to take off my anxiety over the labor market is really high- I don't have the #s to crack the T14 and I know I'll probably end up at one of: UMN, BC, Wisc, or WUSTL; I'm just terrified of not finding work.


try and stay away if you can. i think youre from MN so you might be ok at umn but the other two are in rough shape. wutstl less than wisc though

Anonymous User
Posts: 273256
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Lower t-14, above median, 3 cbs, nothing. Most people I know at my school around the median have nothing.


Yeah I'm sorry but things aren't that good. I think people are forgetting that those who do well are going to disproportionately make up those who advertise their situation. I know for a fact that many many people below the 3.3 and 3.2 range are struggling badly at my top 10. It's feast or famine. Those at a 3.4 or higher are experiencing 2007 type options. But those in the 3.1 and under range are very much in the current economy.

User avatar
MrKappus
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:46 am

Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby MrKappus » Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
minnbills wrote:
Grizz wrote:Definitely not that bad at Vandy. I'd say based on last yr. that this yr. about 50%+ will get some sort of paid 2L SA with a big or medium sized firm. It was about 50% last yr. and anecdotally, it's been better this yr. You also gotta take into account though at Vandy you'll see a lot of Birmingham, Nashville, and smaller Southern markets, and less traditional V100 Northeast employment. That may be your thing, or it may not be.


top 1/4-ish @ nd; there will of course be people who have serious small-market connections to expand that number to somewhere between 25-33%


That's good to hear. As the application season is starting to take off my anxiety over the labor market is really high- I don't have the #s to crack the T14 and I know I'll probably end up at one of: UMN, BC, Wisc, or WUSTL; I'm just terrified of not finding work.


try and stay away if you can. i think youre from MN so you might be ok at umn but the other two are in rough shape. wutstl less than wisc though


Source?

Anonymous User
Posts: 273256
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:05 pm

minnbills wrote:
Grizz wrote:Definitely not that bad at Vandy. I'd say based on last yr. that this yr. about 50%+ will get some sort of paid 2L SA with a big or medium sized firm. It was about 50% last yr. and anecdotally, it's been better this yr. You also gotta take into account though at Vandy you'll see a lot of Birmingham, Nashville, and smaller Southern markets, and less traditional V100 Northeast employment. That may be your thing, or it may not be.


top 1/4-ish @ nd; there will of course be people who have serious small-market connections to expand that number to somewhere between 25-33%


That's good to hear. As the application season is starting to take off my anxiety over the labor market is really high- I don't have the #s to crack the T14 and I know I'll probably end up at one of: UMN, BC, Wisc, or WUSTL; I'm just terrified of not finding work.

Also at Vandy. The problem is that top 1/3 at Vandy is safe or close to it, while middle third is hit or miss depending on where you have ties. Only ties to NYC? Screwed, probs. Ties to a small, insular Southern market? Might be ok.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273256
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:06 pm

MrKappus wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
minnbills wrote:
Grizz wrote:Definitely not that bad at Vandy. I'd say based on last yr. that this yr. about 50%+ will get some sort of paid 2L SA with a big or medium sized firm. It was about 50% last yr. and anecdotally, it's been better this yr. You also gotta take into account though at Vandy you'll see a lot of Birmingham, Nashville, and smaller Southern markets, and less traditional V100 Northeast employment. That may be your thing, or it may not be.


top 1/4-ish @ nd; there will of course be people who have serious small-market connections to expand that number to somewhere between 25-33%


That's good to hear. As the application season is starting to take off my anxiety over the labor market is really high- I don't have the #s to crack the T14 and I know I'll probably end up at one of: UMN, BC, Wisc, or WUSTL; I'm just terrified of not finding work.


try and stay away if you can. i think youre from MN so you might be ok at umn but the other two are in rough shape. wutstl less than wisc though


Source?


lot of friends at both. wustl is better admittedly - probably nd/gw/bu-style placement, but just read the Midwest T25 thread.

friends at wisc report it's a bloodbath though and that t10% students are having difficulty, especially because the other midwest schools are tapping the wisc market as well.

User avatar
MrKappus
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:46 am

Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby MrKappus » Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:lot of friends at both. wustl is better admittedly - probably nd/gw/bu-style placement, but just read the Midwest T25 thread.

friends at wisc report it's a bloodbath though and that t10% students are having difficulty, especially because the other midwest schools are tapping the wisc market as well.


Gotcha. I only have one friend who's at WUSTL and he'd said he thought it was a little better this year, so that's why I was curious.

User avatar
minnbills
Posts: 3153
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:04 pm

Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby minnbills » Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Also at Vandy. The problem is that top 1/3 at Vandy is safe or close to it, while middle third is hit or miss depending on where you have ties. Only ties to NYC? Screwed, probs. Ties to a small, insular Southern market? Might be ok.


try and stay away if you can. i think youre from MN so you might be ok at umn but the other two are in rough shape. wutstl less than wisc though


Thing is I only have ties to MN, other than some family living in WNY, which is obviously not a robust market. I've wondered if going out to BC would basically expand my available markets since I'd be able to compete in Boston, NYC, and MN rather than just MN if I went to UMN.

Sorry to derail the thread with this.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273256
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:lot of friends at both. wustl is better admittedly - probably nd/gw/bu-style placement, but just read the Midwest T25 thread.

friends at wisc report it's a bloodbath though and that t10% students are having difficulty, especially because the other midwest schools are tapping the wisc market as well.


This is credited. The people I know at the more "regional" T1 Midwest schools without a close large market, like Iowa, UMN, IUB, Wisconsin, and Ohio state, are describing things as a complete shit show.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273256
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Lower t-14, above median, 3 cbs, nothing. Most people I know at my school around the median have nothing.


Got dinged or still waiting? If still waiting, hope is still there.

071816
Posts: 5511
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:06 pm

Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby 071816 » Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:50 pm

Does anyone know how USC/UCLA have done this year?

Anonymous User
Posts: 273256
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:12 am

minnbills wrote:
Grizz wrote:
minnbills wrote:So, I know we're just dealing with anecdotes but would you all agree that at this point it's T14 feast with just about everyone else in a famine?

Define feast and famine.


50+ % of T14ers are getting one or more offers, while only the very top (5-10%ile) of T25s are getting anything, and everyone else is getting nothing.


I go to WUSTL. I think it s more like 50+ at t14. USC/UCLA/Vandy/Texas 40-50%
WUSTL/ND/UIUC/GW 15-20%.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273256
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:27 am

Anonymous User wrote:
minnbills wrote:
Grizz wrote:
minnbills wrote:So, I know we're just dealing with anecdotes but would you all agree that at this point it's T14 feast with just about everyone else in a famine?

Define feast and famine.


50+ % of T14ers are getting one or more offers, while only the very top (5-10%ile) of T25s are getting anything, and everyone else is getting nothing.


I go to WUSTL. I think it s more like 50+ at t14. USC/UCLA/Vandy/Texas 40-50%
WUSTL/ND/UIUC/GW 15-20%.


I wouldn't say 40-50% of the second group are getting offers (certainly seems optimistic). That said, being top half made you competitive this year for a market paying gig, but I doubt everyone in the top half will end up getting something.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273256
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:31 am

At Vandy. About 45%-50% got something last year (though not necessarily Vault or NLJ250), so that seems about right, at least for us.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273256
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:03 am

Top 10% UIUC.

Shut out of Chicago.

I interview well and have many opportunities in other markets (where I have ties) but was surprised to be shut out of the Chi.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273256
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:32 am

Anonymous User wrote:Top 10% UIUC.

Shut out of Chicago.

I interview well and have many opportunities in other markets (where I have ties) but was surprised to be shut out of the Chi.

chicago is a fucking bloodbath..... Did you try mass mailing in NY?

Anonymous User
Posts: 273256
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:26 pm

AT HLS, at our OCI orientation, we were shown data that, while hiring had declined from the 2006 heights, HLS's share of the biglaw market had increased pretty dramatically. If this had been repeated across other top schools (and govt/non profits/clerkships are dramatically down) then it makes a lot of sense that the t6, maybe t10 are doing really well. I know a lot of below median people doing well here. Biglaw firms are really taking 100% of the class.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273256
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:AT HLS, at our OCI orientation, we were shown data that, while hiring had declined from the 2006 heights, HLS's share of the biglaw market had increased pretty dramatically. If this had been repeated across other top schools (and govt/non profits/clerkships are dramatically down) then it makes a lot of sense that the t6, maybe t10 are doing really well. I know a lot of below median people doing well here. Biglaw firms are really taking 100% of the class.


I'll second this w/ more HLS anecdotal evidence. While there are a small handful I've heard about that struck out or were striking out (don't know if they snagged something later on), the majority of people I knew were getting multiple offers all over the place, from V5s and down (and plenty were slightly below median/median in grades). Even heard about people w/ median grades netting 20+ cbs.

mrloblaw
Posts: 534
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:00 pm

Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby mrloblaw » Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:53 pm

All I'm saying is that if this year is better than the last two, I weep for the class of 2011/2012. Really. You guys should get free psychiatric counseling or something.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273256
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 25, 2011 4:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
minnbills wrote:
Grizz wrote:
minnbills wrote:So, I know we're just dealing with anecdotes but would you all agree that at this point it's T14 feast with just about everyone else in a famine?

Define feast and famine.


50+ % of T14ers are getting one or more offers, while only the very top (5-10%ile) of T25s are getting anything, and everyone else is getting nothing.


I go to WUSTL. I think it s more like 50+ at t14. USC/UCLA/Vandy/Texas 40-50%
WUSTL/ND/UIUC/GW 15-20%.


While it's definitely better than last year, it's difficult to discern how much. At GULC, a friend who had multiple offers from top V15 firms said around 1/3 of his c/o 2012 got SAs through OCI. This year it definitely seems better, but 50% for the low t14 schools seems too high, at least from the perspective here at GULC. Perhaps this is applicable for t14 schools, but it seems firms are being more selective about fit rather than straight grades -- I've heard of classmates top 10% with Law Review and no offers, while people around median/slightly above median, for whatever reason, are sitting on multiple offers from V50-V100 firms. If I had to guess, GULC c/o 2013 will finish around 40% with SA offers.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273256
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 25, 2011 6:39 pm

For those thinking about going to law school...consider a few years of solid work experience before taking the plunge. I'm at a T20, top-40%, and have three offers from Vault firms...one is V5, one V25, and one V80. My friends with solid work experience, and grades 3.1+ are all doing very well.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273256
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 25, 2011 6:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Lower t-14, above median, 3 cbs, nothing. Most people I know at my school around the median have nothing.


Yeah I'm sorry but things aren't that good. I think people are forgetting that those who do well are going to disproportionately make up those who advertise their situation. I know for a fact that many many people below the 3.3 and 3.2 range are struggling badly at my top 10. It's feast or famine. Those at a 3.4 or higher are experiencing 2007 type options. But those in the 3.1 and under range are very much in the current economy.


+1. At my T10, the majority of my friends who are at median (3.3), slightly below median (3.2), and significantly below median (<3.1) didn't get many callbacks (between 0 and 3) and couldn't convert the callbacks they got into offers. And I also know people who are above median who got a ton of callbacks (10+) and have yet to receive any offers so their hope is dwindling.

I get the impression that things are definitely better this year than they were last year, but I don't think that that means that things are necessarily good.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273256
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:32 pm

I agree with the notion that this year firm's loosened the GPA requirements, allowing them to go deeper into the class and focus more on fit.

I got VERY lucky: (only) top 1/3, T20, secondary journal but got the exact V30 firm I wanted doing the best corporate work in their city.

Once I got into the CB stage and the focus was no longer my grades, my previous work experience sealed the deal since it helped with the "fit" component. But my grades did shut me out of many other cities and firms (DC and NYC were just too competitive). I am lucky that one decided to give me a shot and see who I was beyond the resume paper.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273256
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I agree with the notion that this year firm's loosened the GPA requirements, allowing them to go deeper into the class and focus more on fit.

I got VERY lucky: (only) top 1/3, T20, secondary journal but got the exact V30 firm I wanted doing the best corporate work in their city.

Once I got into the CB stage and the focus was no longer my grades, my previous work experience sealed the deal since it helped with the "fit" component. But my grades did shut me out of many other cities and firms (DC and NYC were just too competitive). I am lucky that one decided to give me a shot and see who I was beyond the resume paper.


I had almost the exact same experience, and from what I am seeing this has been the trend at my school. Top 1/3 at a T30, 2nd journal, 2 v50 offers, waiting on 2 v30's. No URM or IP UG, but 3 years of work experience, which has been the topic of conversation in all of my interviews.




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.