Was this year worst than last?

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Helmholtz
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Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Helmholtz » Sat Sep 24, 2011 12:34 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What is this shit about v5 or v10 as measures of success and selectivity? You realize that firms like Irell, Munger, Williams & Connolly, Susman, etc. are far more selective than Skadden, DP, etc., have better leverage, pay more, have less attrition, and are generally better in every way? You can't rank law firms like you can rank law schools. Who cares if you are in at a v5 vs a v15 firm?


Considering NYC, is by far, the largest market for law school students, it sort of makes sense (even with Chambers' NY rankings, there are only six firms with Elite-Band 1 ratings in both Commercial Litigation and Corporate Law—and five of those six are V5 firms). I don't think anybody going to Skadden NY considers themselves more successful than somebody going to Bartlit Beck, Keker, or Kellogg Huber. So, yeah, thanks for opening all of our eyes, I guess.


What the hell does that have to do with selectivity? If anything what you're saying strengthens his point.

The other thing about the firms that he mentioned is that they don't go "deep" into anyone's class. They want tip top grades at NYU down to GULC. And the soft factors that he mentioned about them are frankly, a huge deal (partnership prospects, pay, attrition rates). Even though people on here act like they aren't.


Thanks for your insight as well although I really have no idea what your point was!

oh, that's right, BruceWayne + NYC = oh he mad (?!?)

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BruceWayne
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Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby BruceWayne » Sat Sep 24, 2011 12:43 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What is this shit about v5 or v10 as measures of success and selectivity? You realize that firms like Irell, Munger, Williams & Connolly, Susman, etc. are far more selective than Skadden, DP, etc., have better leverage, pay more, have less attrition, and are generally better in every way? You can't rank law firms like you can rank law schools. Who cares if you are in at a v5 vs a v15 firm?


Considering NYC, is by far, the largest market for law school students, it sort of makes sense (even with Chambers' NY rankings, there are only six firms with Elite-Band 1 ratings in both Commercial Litigation and Corporate Law—and five of those six are V5 firms). I don't think anybody going to Skadden NY considers themselves more successful than somebody going to Bartlit Beck, Keker, or Kellogg Huber. So, yeah, thanks for opening all of our eyes, I guess.


What the hell does that have to do with selectivity? If anything what you're saying strengthens his point.

The other thing about the firms that he mentioned is that they don't go "deep" into anyone's class. They want tip top grades at NYU down to GULC. And the soft factors that he mentioned about them are frankly, a huge deal (partnership prospects, pay, attrition rates). Even though people on here act like they aren't.


Thanks for your insight as well although I really have no idea what your point was!

oh, that's right, BruceWayne + NYC = oh he mad (?!?)


You sound like a moron, and that was a real bitch move undoing the anonymous post thing. Then again you are a bitch so I'm not sure why I'm surprised. I already told you why I like posting anonymously. And if you can't figure out why "more jobs in one spot" does not=more selective, then I can't help you. You have a serious lack of common sense.

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Helmholtz
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Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Helmholtz » Sat Sep 24, 2011 12:49 pm

BruceWayne wrote:You sound like a moron, and that was a real bitch move undoing the anonymous post thing. Then again you are a bitch so I'm not sure why I'm surprised. I already told you why I like posting anonymously. And if you can't figure out why "more jobs in one spot" does not=more selective, then I can't help you. You have a serious lack of common sense.


I seriously do not know why you are so mad.

But for anybody still playing at home, my point in saying that NYC is the biggest legal employer was to say that it makes sense that more people on here have a NYC-centric viewpoint when it comes to distinguishing firms.

Renzo
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Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Renzo » Sat Sep 24, 2011 12:50 pm

BruceWayne wrote:You sound like a moron, and that was a real bitch move undoing the anonymous post thing. Then again you are a bitch so I'm not sure why I'm surprised. I already told you why I like posting anonymously. And if you can't figure out why "more jobs in one spot" does not=more selective, then I can't help you. You have a serious lack of common sense.


I have a solution, if you don't like being outed for making useless anonymous posts: stop posting altogether.

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Julio_El_Chavo
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Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Julio_El_Chavo » Sat Sep 24, 2011 12:51 pm

BruceWayne wrote:You sound like a moron, and that was a real bitch move undoing the anonymous post thing. Then again you are a bitch so I'm not sure why I'm surprised. I already told you why I like posting anonymously. And if you can't figure out why "more jobs in one spot" does not=more selective, then I can't help you. You have a serious lack of common sense.


Rude.

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Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 24, 2011 12:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:i'm a 3.4-3.5 at gulc/ut/ucla/vandy with no offers. maybe i just suck? but i thought i was a good interviewer. law review people are doing very well. the rest (below law review but even above median) - i hear very mixed reports.

Top 1/3 UT/Vandy no LR sitting on 2 offers and waiting to hear from 6 CBs, though I'll withdraw from a couple of those.

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birdlaw117
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Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby birdlaw117 » Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:03 pm

Renzo wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:You sound like a moron, and that was a real bitch move undoing the anonymous post thing. Then again you are a bitch so I'm not sure why I'm surprised. I already told you why I like posting anonymously. And if you can't figure out why "more jobs in one spot" does not=more selective, then I can't help you. You have a serious lack of common sense.


I have a solution, if you don't like being outed for making useless anonymous posts: stop posting altogether.

This seems like the only reasonable solution.

mrloblaw
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Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby mrloblaw » Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:04 pm

It seems like firms are hiring more people than last year. It also seems like GPA cutoffs have been loosened, and fit factors are being emphasized more, shifting the advantage from those with good-but-not-great grades to those with mediocre grades and good interviewing strategy. Hence, for those banking on the traditional "pwn 1L and get free CBs," this year sucked.

Fair enough?

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violinst
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Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby violinst » Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What is this shit about v5 or v10 as measures of success and selectivity? You realize that firms like Irell, Munger, Williams & Connolly, Susman, etc. are far more selective than Skadden, DP, etc., have better leverage, pay more, have less attrition, and are generally better in every way? You can't rank law firms like you can rank law schools. Who cares if you are in at a v5 vs a v15 firm?


Don't be anal. Typing V5 is much easier than typing all those other names. Also, it's just relative measurement. No one is trying be overly precise.

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Bronte
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Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Bronte » Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:11 pm

mrloblaw wrote:It seems like firms are hiring more people than last year. It also seems like GPA cutoffs have been loosened, and fit factors are being emphasized more, shifting the advantage from those with good-but-not-great grades to those with mediocre grades and good interviewing strategy. Hence, for those banking on the traditional "pwn 1L and get free CBs," this year sucked.

Fair enough?


I don't know. I think the extent of 1L pwnage is still the dominant criterion.

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Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:14 pm

Bronte wrote:
mrloblaw wrote:It seems like firms are hiring more people than last year. It also seems like GPA cutoffs have been loosened, and fit factors are being emphasized more, shifting the advantage from those with good-but-not-great grades to those with mediocre grades and good interviewing strategy. Hence, for those banking on the traditional "pwn 1L and get free CBs," this year sucked.

Fair enough?


I don't know. I think the extent of 1L pwnage is still the dominant criterion.


Only if you have a <3.0, IMO. Even the 3.1's are doing fine. Perhaps not 4+ callbacks with 2+ offers, but at least one offer.

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MrKappus
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Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby MrKappus » Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:19 pm

Way more callbacks this year at my school than last year. Way more.

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minnbills
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Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby minnbills » Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:22 pm

So, I know we're just dealing with anecdotes but would you all agree that at this point it's T14 feast with just about everyone else in a famine?

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Bronte
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Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Bronte » Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:23 pm

minnbills wrote:So, I know we're just dealing with anecdotes but would you all agree that at this point it's T14 feast with just about everyone else in a famine?


T14 is still a significant gamble, but yeah that seems like the case.

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Grizz
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Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Grizz » Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:24 pm

minnbills wrote:So, I know we're just dealing with anecdotes but would you all agree that at this point it's T14 feast with just about everyone else in a famine?

Define feast and famine.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby DoubleChecks » Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:25 pm

BruceWayne wrote:You sound like a moron, and that was a real bitch move undoing the anonymous post thing. Then again you are a bitch so I'm not sure why I'm surprised. I already told you why I like posting anonymously. And if you can't figure out why "more jobs in one spot" does not=more selective, then I can't help you. You have a serious lack of common sense.


Don't know what drama the two of you have going on lol, but just to needlessly weigh in, I've never been a big fan of abuse of the anon feature -- so I am a bit curious, why do you like posting anonymously? Or rather, I guess it is more useful to ask, you realize why you may personally like posting anonymously != what the anonymous feature was designed for, right?

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Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:32 pm

mrloblaw wrote:It seems like firms are hiring more people than last year. It also seems like GPA cutoffs have been loosened, and fit factors are being emphasized more, shifting the advantage from those with good-but-not-great grades to those with mediocre grades and good interviewing strategy. Hence, for those banking on the traditional "pwn 1L and get free CBs," this year sucked.

Fair enough?



Definitely think this is true. 3.2-3.3 at MVP and got call-backs at firms that I thought literally would never touch a below median student, and ultimately offers from a V-15, V-25, and V-40. Hiring seems way up at my school and it seems like anyone looking NYC with above a 3.0 found something. The people who are currently jobless seem to have focused only on specific markets that don't have big summer classes. Also for what it's worth, I am by no means a stellar interviewee.

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BruceWayne
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Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby BruceWayne » Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:40 pm

Helmholtz wrote:I seriously do not know why you are so mad.

But for anybody still playing at home, my point in saying that NYC is the biggest legal employer was to say that it makes sense that more people on here have a NYC-centric viewpoint when it comes to distinguishing firms.


WTH did you even read the guy's post or did you just pounce at the chance to glorify vault rankings? He said that it's a bad measure of selectivity--that this obsession with using it to measure [size=150]selectivity[/size] doesn't make any sense. How the hell did you miss that?
Renzo wrote:
I have a solution, if you don't like being outed for making useless anonymous posts: stop posting altogether.


I have an even better solution for you--mind your own damn business. That would probably work even better.

DoubleChecks wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:You sound like a moron, and that was a real bitch move undoing the anonymous post thing. Then again you are a bitch so I'm not sure why I'm surprised. I already told you why I like posting anonymously. And if you can't figure out why "more jobs in one spot" does not=more selective, then I can't help you. You have a serious lack of common sense.


Don't know what drama the two of you have going on lol, but just to needlessly weigh in, I've never been a big fan of abuse of the anon feature -- so I am a bit curious, why do you like posting anonymously? Or rather, I guess it is more useful to ask, you realize why you may personally like posting anonymously != what the anonymous feature was designed for, right?


Because I get a lot of stalker private messages asking me who I am and also trying to guess by asking me what school I went to for undergrad, my section, my last name, my middle name. It's crazy and very annoying.
Last edited by BruceWayne on Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:43 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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minnbills
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Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby minnbills » Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:41 pm

Grizz wrote:
minnbills wrote:So, I know we're just dealing with anecdotes but would you all agree that at this point it's T14 feast with just about everyone else in a famine?

Define feast and famine.


50+ % of T14ers are getting one or more offers, while only the very top (5-10%ile) of T25s are getting anything, and everyone else is getting nothing.
Last edited by minnbills on Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
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Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:44 pm

STILL SO EARLY. T14 GET FIRST DIBS. OFFERS TRICKLE DOWN

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MrKappus
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Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby MrKappus » Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:44 pm

BruceWayne wrote:Because I get a lot of stalker private messages asking me who I am and also trying to guess by asking me what school I went to for undergrad, my section, my last name, my middle name. It's crazy and very annoying.


They try to guess who you are by asking you your last name? Seems kind of lazy.

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YourCaptain
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Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby YourCaptain » Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:STILL SO EARLY. T14 GET FIRST DIBS. OFFERS TRICKLE DOWN


Image

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Grizz
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Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Grizz » Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:52 pm

minnbills wrote:
Grizz wrote:
minnbills wrote:So, I know we're just dealing with anecdotes but would you all agree that at this point it's T14 feast with just about everyone else in a famine?

Define feast and famine.


50+ % of T14ers are getting one or more offers, while only the very top (5-10%ile) of T25s are getting anything, and everyone else is getting nothing.

Definitely not that bad at Vandy. I'd say based on last yr. that this yr. about 50%+ will get some sort of paid 2L SA with a big or medium sized firm. It was about 50% last yr. and anecdotally, it's been better this yr. You also gotta take into account though at Vandy you'll see a lot of Birmingham, Nashville, and smaller Southern markets, and less traditional V100 Northeast employment. That may be your thing, or it may not be.

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Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:54 pm

minnbills wrote:
Grizz wrote:
minnbills wrote:So, I know we're just dealing with anecdotes but would you all agree that at this point it's T14 feast with just about everyone else in a famine?

Define feast and famine.


50+ % of T14ers are getting one or more offers, while only the very top (5-10%ile) of T25s are getting anything, and everyone else is getting nothing.


top 1/4-ish @ nd; there will of course be people who have serious small-market connections to expand that number to somewhere between 25-33%

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Helmholtz
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Re: Was this year worst than last?

Postby Helmholtz » Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:58 pm

BruceWayne wrote:I have an even better solution for you--mind your own damn business. That would probably work even better.


Wow, you just keep getting madder and madder.

Also, according to my school's GPA data, when it comes to NYC firms, the Vault rankings are a very good (although not perfect) indicator of selectivity. Best firms -> more of the top people want to go them -> firms can be more selective.




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