Judging a firm/office by its represented law schools

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Anonymous User
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Judging a firm/office by its represented law schools

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:45 pm

OK - I'm sick of all this emphasis on grades and brand names my whole life; I get to a T10 law school, do fairly well, and then notice a lot of lower-ranked schools represented among the associates and, especially, partners.

Don't get me wrong, not trying to be snobby. I'm sure there are some ass-kicking candidates from lower ranked schools who went there for whatever reason. But I wonder how much the law school make-up says things about the firm/office.

I'm looking mostly in CA, Bay Area. I have yet to find a firm that is all HYSCCN, and I'm looking at good firms. Does this change when going to NYC? Are lawyers outside of NYC any less intelligent? Is there a firm, aside from Wachtell or whatever, that has almost exclusively T10 school grads? Before law school, I assumed they existed all over. Now I'm not so sure. (and again, not saying that's a bad thing!)

kahechsof
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Re: Judging a firm/office by its represented law schools

Postby kahechsof » Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:48 pm

.
Last edited by kahechsof on Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Helmholtz
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Re: Judging a firm/office by its represented law schools

Postby Helmholtz » Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:49 pm

wat is this

terribleperson
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Re: Judging a firm/office by its represented law schools

Postby terribleperson » Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:57 pm

Helmholtz wrote:wat is this

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IrwinM.Fletcher
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Re: Judging a firm/office by its represented law schools

Postby IrwinM.Fletcher » Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OK - I'm sick of all this emphasis on grades and brand names my whole life; I get to a T10 law school, do fairly well, and then notice a lot of lower-ranked schools represented among the associates and, especially, partners.

Don't get me wrong, not trying to be snobby. I'm sure there are some ass-kicking candidates from lower ranked schools who went there for whatever reason. But I wonder how much the law school make-up says things about the firm/office.

I'm looking mostly in CA, Bay Area. I have yet to find a firm that is all HYSCCN, and I'm looking at good firms. Does this change when going to NYC? Are lawyers outside of NYC any less intelligent? Is there a firm, aside from Wachtell or whatever, that has almost exclusively T10 school grads? Before law school, I assumed they existed all over. Now I'm not so sure. (and again, not saying that's a bad thing!)


169/Good-Enough-For-WUSTL flame.

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YourCaptain
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Re: Judging a firm/office by its represented law schools

Postby YourCaptain » Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OK - I'm sick of all this emphasis on grades and brand names my whole life; I get to a T10 law school, do fairly well, and then notice a lot of lower-ranked schools represented among the associates and, especially, partners.

Don't get me wrong, not trying to be snobby. I'm sure there are some ass-kicking candidates from lower ranked schools who went there for whatever reason. But I wonder how much the law school make-up says things about the firm/office.

I'm looking mostly in CA, Bay Area. I have yet to find a firm that is all HYSCCN, and I'm looking at good firms. Does this change when going to NYC? Are lawyers outside of NYC any less intelligent? Is there a firm, aside from Wachtell or whatever, that has almost exclusively T10 school grads? Before law school, I assumed they existed all over. Now I'm not so sure. (and again, not saying that's a bad thing!)


LOL

Anonymous User
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Re: Judging a firm/office by its represented law schools

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:43 pm

.

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JusticeHarlan
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Re: Judging a firm/office by its represented law schools

Postby JusticeHarlan » Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:49 pm

Helmholtz wrote:wat is this

I don't even

dadamafia
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Re: Judging a firm/office by its represented law schools

Postby dadamafia » Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:02 pm

I hope you find happiness.

Anonymous User
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Re: Judging a firm/office by its represented law schools

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote: Does this change when going to NYC? Are lawyers outside of NYC any less intelligent? Is there a firm, aside from Wachtell or whatever, that has almost exclusively T10 school grads? Before law school, I assumed they existed all over. Now I'm not so sure. (and again, not saying that's a bad thing!)

Even Wachtell has plenty of non-T14 and even a few non-T1 grads. Doesn't make it any less of a powerhouse. I understand what you're saying, but like you said:
Anonymous User wrote:there are some ass-kicking candidates from lower ranked schools

I like to think of it this way: the people at those lower ranked schools did well enough to have transferred to a T14, they just didn't. That in no way makes them worse lawyers (setting aside the obvious lack of correlation between law school and quality of lawyer).

Your analysis may be more applicable when you start seeing associates/partners that graduated cum laude from those lower ranked schools, rather than magna or summa as most of them are that work at these firms.

Anonymous User
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Re: Judging a firm/office by its represented law schools

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:52 pm

Now that we're on the subject, what exactly are "staff attorneys"? What do they do? Do they have their own office? Are they separated from associates/partners/counsel?

See, e.g.:

http://www.cgsh.com/kmossel/
http://www.whitecase.com/rudy-raul-mederos/

kahechsof
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Re: Judging a firm/office by its represented law schools

Postby kahechsof » Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:08 am

Anonymous User wrote:http://www.cgsh.com/kmossel/


Interesting. Looks like you can go from contract attorney to staff attorney.

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Helmholtz
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Re: Judging a firm/office by its represented law schools

Postby Helmholtz » Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:11 am

kahechsof wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:http://www.cgsh.com/kmossel/


Interesting. Looks like you can go from contract attorney to staff attorney.


From Cooley to Cleary

somebody get on that movie

Anonymous User
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Re: Judging a firm/office by its represented law schools

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:19 am

/hoping OP doesn't go to my school

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leobowski
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Re: Judging a firm/office by its represented law schools

Postby leobowski » Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:26 am

The HYS kids on LR probably feel the same way about you bub. No matter how high you climb, there's always someone on the next rung to piss on you.

traydeuce
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Re: Judging a firm/office by its represented law schools

Postby traydeuce » Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:29 am

I think it means SOMETHING. But I'd be more interested in how many people clerked, and where, whether people graduated cum laude, or magna, in journal membership, etc. Because there is great talent in sub-t14 schools - less of it, to be sure, but I would give a good firm the benefit of the doubt and assume that it identified that great talent.

Anonymous User
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Re: Judging a firm/office by its represented law schools

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:32 am

[/quote]I like to think of it this way: the people at those lower ranked schools did well enough to have transferred to a T14, they just didn't. That in no way makes them worse lawyers (setting aside the obvious lack of correlation between law school and quality of lawyer).[/quote]

Well I think of it this way: the people at those lower ranked schools also got into T14s (I did and so did some of my friends)--they just didn't go for a variety of personal reasons, not the least of which was graduating with zero or minimal debt and still having offers for biglaw SAs & permanent employment.

Anonymous User
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Re: Judging a firm/office by its represented law schools

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:51 am

Anonymous User wrote:Don't get me wrong, not trying to be snobby.


right.

Adrian_8am
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Re: Judging a firm/office by its represented law schools

Postby Adrian_8am » Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:09 am

.
Last edited by Adrian_8am on Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Pato_09
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Re: Judging a firm/office by its represented law schools

Postby Pato_09 » Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:10 am

Nerd.

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TheSharklord
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Re: Judging a firm/office by its represented law schools

Postby TheSharklord » Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:12 am

Anonymous User wrote:Now that we're on the subject, what exactly are "staff attorneys"? What do they do? Do they have their own office? Are they separated from associates/partners/counsel?

See, e.g.:

http://www.cgsh.com/kmossel/
http://www.whitecase.com/rudy-raul-mederos/


I'm pretty sure that...

Contract Attorneys are people who are engaged on a short-term basis and paid at some set hourly rate for hours worked.

Staff Attorneys are people who are full-time salaried attorneys who are not intended to ever be on a partner track. I think they may be relatively less better off than someone at a firm that does "career track" for attorneys opting to take it, since those attorneys could have presumably continued on the partner track if they had wanted (with the expected hours/bus.dev. requirements)

Anyone have a better sense?

Anonymous User
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Re: Judging a firm/office by its represented law schools

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:40 am

Also, things have changed in the law firm world. Look how many non-T14 first year associates these firms have (/ incoming first years when they start in the next month or two)...the number will be virtually nil. Back in the flush mid-2000s, firms took huge summer classes which, given the classes' sizes, inevitably included a substantial number of non-T14s. When firms cut back, they did so primarily at those non-T14 schools. The proportion of non-T14 alums in associate/partner positions at elite law firms is going to drop fairly significantly in the new post-recession world we're living in.


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Re: Judging a firm/office by its represented law schools

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:46 am

.

johndhi
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Re: Judging a firm/office by its represented law schools

Postby johndhi » Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:20 pm

I'm not going to say you aren't a d-bag, but one thing I've noticed that is sort of interesting is that, in my experience, name partners are very frequently not from T-14 schools. I imagine it's a combination of the fact that, 40 years ago it didn't matter so much where you went to law school (if you were from Utah, you went to school in Utah), and that ultra-nerds at Yale may be good at legal analysis but tend to lack the business acumen necessary to wheel and deal your way to name partner.




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