Reneging, at what point is it justified?

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Anonymous User
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Reneging, at what point is it justified?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:21 pm

I am a pretty loyal person, and never thought I would be one to reneg on an offer, but here is my question. At what point of the new offer being better for your career can you just not justify NOT reneging on a summer offer?

If current offer pays half market and new offer pays market, is it career-craziness to not reneg?

What if the difference is 80k-135k; 80k-100k?

Assume that there aren't any great advantages to the lesser-paying firm, and that the higher paying firms have more interesting work, higher profits per partner, and no crazy high attrition rate.

Basically, I would like to start a discussion about this and see the differing views.

Thanks in advance.

kahechsof
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Re: Reneging, at what point is it justified?

Postby kahechsof » Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:27 pm

I just want to know how you got in a situation where you accepted an offer from a firm paying 80 when you still had possibilities for 160.

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Re: Reneging, at what point is it justified?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:29 pm

Is this a serious question?

Anonymous User wrote:What if the difference is 80k-135k; 80k-100k?


Take the money dude. You are lucky to have such options.

hangtransferloose
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Re: Reneging, at what point is it justified?

Postby hangtransferloose » Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:32 pm

I had a similar situation come up recently. You see, I was dating Jessica Alba. Things were ok. Then, to my surprise, Megan Fox sent me a text message asking if I would go out with her (she threw in 40k to try and twist my arm). It was a tough decision. I ultimately went out with Megan Fox. Good luck bro.

mrloblaw
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Re: Reneging, at what point is it justified?

Postby mrloblaw » Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:39 pm

kahechsof wrote:I just want to know how you got in a situation where you accepted an offer from a firm paying 80 when you still had possibilities for 160.


More specifically, when you had no real interest in the smaller firm to begin with.

Reneging is not something you want to be in the habit of doing. Your mistake was in accepting an offer that you do not want.

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Re: Reneging, at what point is it justified?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:42 pm

kahechsof wrote:I just want to know how you got in a situation where you accepted an offer from a firm paying 80 when you still had possibilities for 160.



One firm gave me a VERY short deadline (not a nalp firm) and things were not looking so great otherwise so I accepted. Higher-paying firm came out of the woodworks when I wasn't really expecting it to happen. My situation is very unique so do not want to get into specific w/r/t the second firm.

Generally speaking, does word of reneging really get around? Would it look horrible otherwise? I appreciate the input thus far.

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Re: Reneging, at what point is it justified?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:43 pm

mrloblaw wrote:
kahechsof wrote:I just want to know how you got in a situation where you accepted an offer from a firm paying 80 when you still had possibilities for 160.


More specifically, when you had no real interest in the smaller firm to begin with.

Reneging is not something you want to be in the habit of doing. Your mistake was in accepting an offer that you do not want.


See above, only offer at the time with a very short deadline...Low paying firm far better than unemployment.

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Re: Reneging, at what point is it justified?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
kahechsof wrote:I just want to know how you got in a situation where you accepted an offer from a firm paying 80 when you still had possibilities for 160.



One firm gave me a VERY short deadline (not a nalp firm) and things were not looking so great otherwise so I accepted. Higher-paying firm came out of the woodworks when I wasn't really expecting it to happen. My situation is very unique so do not want to get into specific w/r/t the second firm.

Generally speaking, does word of reneging really get around? Would it look horrible otherwise? I appreciate the input thus far.


same market or different markets?

kahechsof
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Re: Reneging, at what point is it justified?

Postby kahechsof » Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
kahechsof wrote:I just want to know how you got in a situation where you accepted an offer from a firm paying 80 when you still had possibilities for 160.



One firm gave me a VERY short deadline (not a nalp firm) and things were not looking so great otherwise so I accepted. Higher-paying firm came out of the woodworks when I wasn't really expecting it to happen. My situation is very unique so do not want to get into specific w/r/t the second firm.

Generally speaking, does word of reneging really get around? Would it look horrible otherwise? I appreciate the input thus far.


As far as it hurting you- I have no idea.
As far as a moral obligation- I think I can see it being justified.

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Re: Reneging, at what point is it justified?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
kahechsof wrote:I just want to know how you got in a situation where you accepted an offer from a firm paying 80 when you still had possibilities for 160.



One firm gave me a VERY short deadline (not a nalp firm) and things were not looking so great otherwise so I accepted. Higher-paying firm came out of the woodworks when I wasn't really expecting it to happen. My situation is very unique so do not want to get into specific w/r/t the second firm.

Generally speaking, does word of reneging really get around? Would it look horrible otherwise? I appreciate the input thus far.


same market or different markets?


Same region, different markets

bmontminy
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Re: Reneging, at what point is it justified?

Postby bmontminy » Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I had a similar situation come up recently. You see, I was dating Jessica Alba. Things were ok. Then, to my surprise, Megan Fox sent me a text message asking if I would go out with her (she threw in 40k to try and twist my arm). It was a tough decision. I ultimately went out with Megan Fox. Good luck bro.


TYFT, made my day

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Re: Reneging, at what point is it justified?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:20 pm

Prepared to be buried under a deluge of rose-colored, myopic self-righteous bullshit.

Take the money and run. What you are talking about is a huge difference in $$$ and career prospects. Don't be stupid. Firms routinely reneg when their bottom line demands it. The idea that it is immoral/unprofessional to do the same is pure, unadulterated bullshit.

While you have an obligation to the firm, you have a greater obligation to yourself, your family and anyone close to you that may benefit from the $$$. I know I do, and I know my aging parents and my family are my priority in this world. They are worth far more to me than a promise made to a bunch of strangers. One burned bridge vs all the good the money would do for me and my people... this an ABSURDLY easy decision.

Take the money and run.

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Re: Reneging, at what point is it justified?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Prepared to be buried under a deluge of rose-colored, myopic self-righteous bullshit.

Take the money and run. What you are talking about is a huge difference in $$$ and career prospects. Don't be stupid. Firms routinely reneg when their bottom line demands it. The idea that it is immoral/unprofessional to do the same is pure, unadulterated bullshit.

While you have an obligation to the firm, you have a greater obligation to yourself, your family and anyone close to you that may benefit from the $$$. I know I do, and I know my aging parents and my family are my priority in this world. They are worth far more to me than a promise made to a bunch of strangers. One burned bridge vs all the good the money would do for me and my people... this an ABSURDLY easy decision.

Take the money and run.


This seems very logical and well-put. Thank you very much for the opinion.

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Re: Reneging, at what point is it justified?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:01 pm

My question has always been whether there is anything beyond a possible tarnished reputation that could follow from reneging an acceptance. Are there contractual or C&E concerns? Career services makes it seem like it's the worst thing a human can do, but I think that the OP should have every right to take the better offer (especially since firms can pull offers).

mrloblaw
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Re: Reneging, at what point is it justified?

Postby mrloblaw » Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
mrloblaw wrote:
kahechsof wrote:I just want to know how you got in a situation where you accepted an offer from a firm paying 80 when you still had possibilities for 160.


More specifically, when you had no real interest in the smaller firm to begin with.

Reneging is not something you want to be in the habit of doing. Your mistake was in accepting an offer that you do not want.


See above, only offer at the time with a very short deadline...Low paying firm far better than unemployment.


Somewhat more understandable situation, and one that I'm sorry you're in. You could try explaining the situation to the below-market firm and getting them to release you from your commitment; if you don't want to be there, they shouldn't want you there. On the other hand, if they say "No, you're coming" you just look like more of a jerk for backing out.

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Re: Reneging, at what point is it justified?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Prepared to be buried under a deluge of rose-colored, myopic self-righteous bullshit.

Take the money and run. What you are talking about is a huge difference in $$$ and career prospects. Don't be stupid. Firms routinely reneg when their bottom line demands it. The idea that it is immoral/unprofessional to do the same is pure, unadulterated bullshit.

While you have an obligation to the firm, you have a greater obligation to yourself, your family and anyone close to you that may benefit from the $$$. I know I do, and I know my aging parents and my family are my priority in this world. They are worth far more to me than a promise made to a bunch of strangers. One burned bridge vs all the good the money would do for me and my people... this an ABSURDLY easy decision.

Take the money and run.


This seems very logical and well-put. Thank you very much for the opinion.


I don't think that post was very well-put at all. I don't disagree with the bottom-line result in a sort of Machiavellian-way, but to be so cavalier about breaking promises made. I don't know, says something about the person in my opinion. If I were on my high horse, I'd tell you that this should be a very tough decision; professional reneging seems unethical and harmful to the firm. It is harmful to your reputation and should obviously be avoided in almost all circumstances. But I shouldn't be on a high horse here because it doesn't serve much of a purpose in your situation. Rather, in your case, I don't know if I would act differently (and I am assuming you will reneg).

And I disagree w/ the above poster -- of course reneging here is unprofessional...doesn't mean you shouldn't do it (for many of the reasons he already cited, and even ones he didn't). I just hope you don't have the same mentality as that poster, even if it is for the sake of those you have a greater obligation to (and I agree, you DO have a greater obligation to yourself, your family, etc. and I don't doubt, if the tables were turned, most firms would screw you over faster than you would them. I don't think that changes my concern at all).
Last edited by Anonymous User on Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
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Re: Reneging, at what point is it justified?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
mrloblaw wrote:
kahechsof wrote:I just want to know how you got in a situation where you accepted an offer from a firm paying 80 when you still had possibilities for 160.


More specifically, when you had no real interest in the smaller firm to begin with.

Reneging is not something you want to be in the habit of doing. Your mistake was in accepting an offer that you do not want.


See above, only offer at the time with a very short deadline...Low paying firm far better than unemployment.

Nevermind I read it.

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Re: Reneging, at what point is it justified?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:16 pm

You have to accept the 160k job. Try to break it to the other firm as softly as you can. Dude, just fast-forward 15 years when you have kids. You gotta do what's best for you and your family. The below-market firm will understand, if they really care about you. If they don't, it means they wouldn't think twice about kicking you to the curb if the tables were somehow turned.

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bport hopeful
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Re: Reneging, at what point is it justified?

Postby bport hopeful » Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:18 pm

If youre about to get Euched for the win.

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wiseowl
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Re: Reneging, at what point is it justified?

Postby wiseowl » Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:34 pm

this is why playing with non-NALP firms is not advised while NALPers are still in the mix.

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Re: Reneging, at what point is it justified?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:51 pm

On the topic of reneging from offers you got through OCI, keep in mind that the firm will complain to your school's CSO, who will in turn admonish you and ban you from any future OCI participation. Of course, if you're confident that the 2L firm will give you a full offer, then it doesn't really matter--especially at a firm that pays market--but if not, 3L OCI is definitely out of the question.

More generally, I think time between the offer and the reneging is also significant. If you renege 1 week after you accept your offer, your firm still has time to find other worthy candidates. If you renege in November-December, then you're screwing them.

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paratactical
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Re: Reneging, at what point is it justified?

Postby paratactical » Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:25 pm

Have you tried seeing if you can split the summer?

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Re: Reneging, at what point is it justified?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:54 am

I was talking with a former supervisor about whether I should take an offer I have now and his advice was to at least consider taking it, even if I have to back out later. while it's not honorable, at some point you need to look for yourself. apologize profusely to the firm you accepted and say something came up and for personal reasons you can't accept their offer.

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rayiner
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Re: Reneging, at what point is it justified?

Postby rayiner » Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:07 pm

paratactical wrote:Have you tried seeing if you can split the summer?


*boom* headshot.

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rayiner
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Re: Reneging, at what point is it justified?

Postby rayiner » Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:11 pm

NALP guidelines: http://www.nalp.org/ethicsandemployment

Once you have accepted an offer, do not renege. Accepting a job offer and then calling back at a later date to say you've changed your mind can be a dangerous game. There may be circumstances which force you into this kind of unfortunate action, but professional circles are small and memories are long. Treat a potential employer as fairly as you expect to be treated yourself.


However, different story for employers: http://www.nalp.org/rescindedoffers

Note that firm in question is not a NALP firm. Technically you're not bound by NALP guidelines when dealing with them. This is of course one of the downsides, as a firm, of not belonging to NALP.




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