Most effective way to leverage an offer?

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Anonymous User
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Most effective way to leverage an offer?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:29 pm

I'm sure this topic has been covered before, but I looked at a few pages of the forum and did not see this topic. Anyhow, I got an offer, but prefer another firm. Had a CB at the preferred firm about a week ago and between then and now got another offer.

Without coming across as a jack*ss or schmuk, any suggestions on how to politely let them know I have an offer but prefer their firm without making it seem like I'm forcing them to act?

I know I could probably type a simple note, but I want to be sure I don't seem like a jack*ss. Just seems like I would if I said hey, I have an offer but prefer your firm. Seems desperate a bit too.

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Re: Most effective way to leverage an offer?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:40 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm sure this topic has been covered before, but I looked at a few pages of the forum and did not see this topic. Anyhow, I got an offer, but prefer another firm. Had a CB at the preferred firm about a week ago and between then and now got another offer.

Without coming across as a jack*ss or schmuk, any suggestions on how to politely let them know I have an offer but prefer their firm without making it seem like I'm forcing them to act?

I know I could probably type a simple note, but I want to be sure I don't seem like a jack*ss. Just seems like I would if I said hey, I have an offer but prefer your firm. Seems desperate a bit too.


Dear firm x,

(insert opening pleasantries here, thanks them for their time/your interview).

Additionally, I wanted to give you an update on my application for a summer associate position with your firm. I recently received an offer from another firm. However, I am holding that offer open until I hear from your firm. I really enjoyed my interview with your firm and remain extremely interested in the position

Thanks
-anonymous

I'd send it to the recruiter. They're responsible for keeping this stuff in line, they don't want to miss an applicant because they take too long. I've done this with several firms and all responded well. Definitely doesn't make you a jack*ss either.

Good luck!

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Re: Most effective way to leverage an offer?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:15 pm

VERY interested in this as well: how to do this at my CBs next week? Who do I tell? Every partner? Some of them? Casually mention it at lunch with the associates? Find the person who screened me and tell them? Unlike at my last CB, where I talked quite a bit with the recruiter, I wont be doing that next week; t's gonna be strictly lawyers.

Note that the offer is in a different market, at a firm that is one of the gold references in the practice area. Name the firm?

Also, since I have a couple of CBs, one of the firms will end up getting shafted anyway, and this after I use my existing offer as a leverage. Any ethical issues with pressuring a firm to give me an offer in this fashion ("I have an offer, but I'd much rather work for you"), then turning them down?

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Re: Most effective way to leverage an offer?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:VERY interested in this as well: how to do this at my CBs next week? Who do I tell? Every partner? Some of them? Casually mention it at lunch with the associates? Find the person who screened me and tell them? Unlike at my last CB, where I talked quite a bit with the recruiter, I wont be doing that next week; t's gonna be strictly lawyers.

Note that the offer is in a different market, at a firm that is one of the gold references in the practice area. Name the firm?

Also, since I have a couple of CBs, one of the firms will end up getting shafted anyway, and this after I use my existing offer as a leverage. Any ethical issues with pressuring a firm to give me an offer in this fashion ("I have an offer, but I'd much rather work for you"), then turning them down?


Slow your roll. I had an offer, from a great firm, but in a different market. I went to my top choice callback and played it cool, just tried to kill it. Do that, and then follow up either wiht the recruiter at the end of the day that you enjoyed meeting with everyone, and are going to continue holding off on another callback that you have. Don't offer more information than necessary. Even if you have a great offer, no need to go into specifics, unless they ask. Then no problem. If another offer pops up after the interview, let them know that as well and reiterate that you are keeping them open because you like X firm the best. Business negotiations is a science and an art---you need to be careful about just spouting offer offer offer in each of your interviews.

dougroberts
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Re: Most effective way to leverage an offer?

Postby dougroberts » Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm sure this topic has been covered before, but I looked at a few pages of the forum and did not see this topic. Anyhow, I got an offer, but prefer another firm. Had a CB at the preferred firm about a week ago and between then and now got another offer.

Without coming across as a jack*ss or schmuk, any suggestions on how to politely let them know I have an offer but prefer their firm without making it seem like I'm forcing them to act?

I know I could probably type a simple note, but I want to be sure I don't seem like a jack*ss. Just seems like I would if I said hey, I have an offer but prefer your firm. Seems desperate a bit too.


Dear firm x,

(insert opening pleasantries here, thanks them for their time/your interview).

Additionally, I wanted to give you an update on my application for a summer associate position with your firm. I recently received an offer from another firm. However, I am holding that offer open until I hear from your firm. I really enjoyed my interview with your firm and remain extremely interested in the position

Thanks
-anonymous

I'd send it to the recruiter. They're responsible for keeping this stuff in line, they don't want to miss an applicant because they take too long. I've done this with several firms and all responded well. Definitely doesn't make you a jack*ss either.

Good luck!


Haha I did almost exactly this last year when I was a 2L, and I got a rejection email replied to that email about an hour later. Oh well, I ended up getting an offer a better law firm a week later, so it was moot.

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Re: Most effective way to leverage an offer?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:VERY interested in this as well: how to do this at my CBs next week? Who do I tell? Every partner? Some of them? Casually mention it at lunch with the associates? Find the person who screened me and tell them? Unlike at my last CB, where I talked quite a bit with the recruiter, I wont be doing that next week; t's gonna be strictly lawyers.

Note that the offer is in a different market, at a firm that is one of the gold references in the practice area. Name the firm?

Also, since I have a couple of CBs, one of the firms will end up getting shafted anyway, and this after I use my existing offer as a leverage. Any ethical issues with pressuring a firm to give me an offer in this fashion ("I have an offer, but I'd much rather work for you"), then turning them down?


Just on using another offer as leverage, and then turning a firm down, if you tell them they are your top choice just to get an offer that you know you will turn down, then you are lying. If lying is an ethical issue, then there are ethical issues. This has already been discussed in previous threads, though.

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Re: Most effective way to leverage an offer?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:56 pm

Just on using another offer as leverage, and then turning a firm down, if you tell them they are your top choice just to get an offer that you know you will turn down, then you are lying. If lying is an ethical issue, then there are ethical issues. This has already been discussed in previous threads, though.

I don't know I will be turning them down. But I want options, so yeah, if I can get at least an additional offer, someone is gonna get turned down.

But OF COURSE I would be lying. You are supposed to tell every employer that you dream of working there. How the fuck else am I supposed to get the job? Tell them that they are an ok firm and that I wouldn't mind working for them, but maybe I would pick the other firm?

I don't even know why I bother asking these questions on TLS any more. The level of naivete/hypocrisy regarding these matters can be astonishing.

I am trying to get the best job I can in a horrendous job market. Unless you have superlative credentials (like my friend who is drowning in offers and can afford to interview these firms, instead of the other way around), it is a requirement of any interview to show boundless enthusiasm for the employer, however insincere. How is that bad?

When I find myself 2 years from now with a miserable job (or for those who have no offer, no job and a mountain of debt), am I supposed to take comfort in the fact that at least I was HONEST during my interviews? Seriously?

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snailio
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Re: Most effective way to leverage an offer?

Postby snailio » Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Just on using another offer as leverage, and then turning a firm down, if you tell them they are your top choice just to get an offer that you know you will turn down, then you are lying. If lying is an ethical issue, then there are ethical issues. This has already been discussed in previous threads, though.

I don't know I will be turning them down. But I want options, so yeah, if I can get at least an additional offer, someone is gonna get turned down.

But OF COURSE I would be lying. You are supposed to tell every employer that you dream of working there. How the fuck else am I supposed to get the job? Tell them that they are an ok firm and that I wouldn't mind working for them, but maybe I would pick the other firm?

I don't even know why I bother asking these questions on TLS any more. The level of naivete/hypocrisy regarding these matters can be astonishing.

I am trying to get the best job I can in a horrendous job market. Unless you have superlative credentials (like my friend who is drowning in offers and can afford to interview these firms, instead of the other way around), it is a requirement of any interview to show boundless enthusiasm for the employer, however insincere. How is that bad?

When I find myself 2 years from now with a miserable job (or for those who have no offer, no job and a mountain of debt), am I supposed to take comfort in the fact that at least I was HONEST during my interviews? Seriously?




So Op in your original post you said you were worried about coming off as a Jack*ss or a Schmuck, then in your very first response to legitimate advice to people who are trying to help ...you accomplish that very feat....well done my friend...well done indeed.

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Re: Most effective way to leverage an offer?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Just on using another offer as leverage, and then turning a firm down, if you tell them they are your top choice just to get an offer that you know you will turn down, then you are lying. If lying is an ethical issue, then there are ethical issues. This has already been discussed in previous threads, though.

I don't know I will be turning them down. But I want options, so yeah, if I can get at least an additional offer, someone is gonna get turned down.

But OF COURSE I would be lying. You are supposed to tell every employer that you dream of working there. How the fuck else am I supposed to get the job? Tell them that they are an ok firm and that I wouldn't mind working for them, but maybe I would pick the other firm?

...

I am trying to get the best job I can in a horrendous job market. Unless you have superlative credentials (like my friend who is drowning in offers and can afford to interview these firms, instead of the other way around), it is a requirement of any interview to show boundless enthusiasm for the employer, however insincere. How is that bad?

...


Amen x13847293847293874.

Do you think all the firms really mean it when they say "This was an incredibly tough decision and there are countless qualified applicants and while we're rejecting you we are positive you'll get something somewhere else"? No. The interview process is about who can blow the most smoke up the ass of the other side without getting caught. "Our firm is family friendly". vs "I love the litigation process and am completely open to the possibility of doc review. Additionally, long hours don't bother me. Ever. I prefer Sundays to be in the office. I've never even watched a football game." Is it anybody's dream to bill 3000 hours a year and not see their family a significant number of evenings? Doubtful. People do it because they're interested in the legal profession + have a desire to provide for a family. Not because working until 3 AM is an intelligent business model that people strive to be involved in for its own intrinsic benefit.

The firm would not hesitate to go with a more qualified candidate if they had the chance. That's why they invented at-will employment, so there's no obligation on the part of either side to the other. It's business, you have a genuine interest in the firm, and if it turns out to be your best offer, you'll be there smiling and cheerful day one. A firm will survive you not accepting an offer from them. In fact, they extend significantly more offers than they expect to be accepted for exactly this reason. They KNOW some people won't accept them.

It's a brutal market out there. According to some reports, the legal sector is potentially the most over-saturated market there is. You've got to look out for yourself, the same way the firms are looking out for their bottom lines.


At the end of the day, from a personal moral perspective, provided you don't ever explicitly promise a firm "If you offer me, I will accept unconditionally", you're fine in my opinion. If you can use another offer to leverage one firm into moving faster, more power to you. It's not like knowing you have an offer from another firm is suddenly going to turn a ding into an offer anyways.

meshtdagn
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Re: Most effective way to leverage an offer?

Postby meshtdagn » Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:39 pm

This thread already happened last week. Basically, some people think a bad economy lowers professionalism and ethical standards in your job search. Others don't.

Anonymous User
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Re: Most effective way to leverage an offer?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:41 pm

meshtdagn wrote:This thread already happened last week. Basically, some people think a bad economy lowers professionalism and ethical standards in your job search. Others don't.


hahahahaha, /thread. well played.

Anonymous User
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Re: Most effective way to leverage an offer?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:At the end of the day, from a personal moral perspective, provided you don't ever explicitly promise a firm "If you offer me, I will accept unconditionally", you're fine in my opinion. If you can use another offer to leverage one firm into moving faster, more power to you. It's not like knowing you have an offer from another firm is suddenly going to turn a ding into an offer anyways.


Q: if you tell them theyre your first choice prior to offer and wait 2 weeks before accepting post-offer, will this have a likelihood of affecting your chances for an offer at the end of the summer?

Anonymous User
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Re: Most effective way to leverage an offer?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:48 pm

snailio wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Just on using another offer as leverage, and then turning a firm down, if you tell them they are your top choice just to get an offer that you know you will turn down, then you are lying. If lying is an ethical issue, then there are ethical issues. This has already been discussed in previous threads, though.

I don't know I will be turning them down. But I want options, so yeah, if I can get at least an additional offer, someone is gonna get turned down.

But OF COURSE I would be lying. You are supposed to tell every employer that you dream of working there. How the fuck else am I supposed to get the job? Tell them that they are an ok firm and that I wouldn't mind working for them, but maybe I would pick the other firm?

I don't even know why I bother asking these questions on TLS any more. The level of naivete/hypocrisy regarding these matters can be astonishing.

I am trying to get the best job I can in a horrendous job market. Unless you have superlative credentials (like my friend who is drowning in offers and can afford to interview these firms, instead of the other way around), it is a requirement of any interview to show boundless enthusiasm for the employer, however insincere. How is that bad?

When I find myself 2 years from now with a miserable job (or for those who have no offer, no job and a mountain of debt), am I supposed to take comfort in the fact that at least I was HONEST during my interviews? Seriously?




So Op in your original post you said you were worried about coming off as a Jack*ss or a Schmuck, then in your very first response to legitimate advice to people who are trying to help ...you accomplish that very feat....well done my friend...well done indeed.

Not OP. I wrote the post you quoted, and the 3rd post in this thread. But thanks!

Anonymous User
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Re: Most effective way to leverage an offer?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:58 pm

I'm the OP. It's a place that I'd definitely go to, not going to solicit offers just to accumulate offers.

bathtubgin
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Re: Most effective way to leverage an offer?

Postby bathtubgin » Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:11 pm

It's a brutal market out there. According to some reports, the legal sector is potentially the most over-saturated market there is. You've got to look out for yourself, the same way the firms are looking out for their bottom lines.


Not "potentially." It is:

http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/ ... t_website_

Given as poorly as the overall economy is doing, it wouldn't be a bit surprising to see another round of deferments & rescinded offers coming down the line next year.

"Brutal' doesn't begin to describe the legal market. That's why I LOL at the O L's who say "well, everything is terrible right now, not just law."

True, everything is terrible. Law is just especially terrible: in fact, the MOST terrible, by a wide margin.

Miss out on Biglaw and you're staring up at a mountain of debt and, if you're lucky, a 45 K a year gig in some insurance defense boiler room or doc review temping for $20 an hour. This isn't my opinion, it's reality.

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Re: Most effective way to leverage an offer?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:01 am

bathtubgin wrote: Given as poorly as the overall economy is doing, it wouldn't be a bit surprising to see another round of deferments & rescinded offers coming down the line next year.


Cite? Firms decreased their summer classes to account for ITE. What would cause rescinded offers?




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