so what happens if your judge is no longer on the bench

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Anonymous User
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so what happens if your judge is no longer on the bench

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:51 pm

by the time your clerkship starts? i have an interview with an old job - i know this is morbid but thinking what happens if he passes on before I start. Will I be able to get a firm judge? Will another judge from the district be able to hire me?
Last edited by Anonymous User on Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

kahechsof
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Re: so what happens if your judge is no longer on the bench

Postby kahechsof » Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:02 pm

Hedge yourself by buying a few million dollars in life insurance on him.

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MrPapagiorgio
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Re: so what happens if your judge is no longer on the bench

Postby MrPapagiorgio » Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:13 pm

kahechsof wrote:Hedge yourself by buying a few million dollars in life insurance on him.

QFtehlulz

imchuckbass58
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Re: so what happens if your judge is no longer on the bench

Postby imchuckbass58 » Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:17 pm

Usually another judge from the district will pick you up. It depends how close to your hire date it is. Basically, other judges are ecstatic to pick up another clerk to help with the workload, but need to have the budget. If the district has already budgeted you, then you'll almost certainly be picked up. If not, you may have a tougher time. Not sure when exactly it happens, but my understanding it's a decent amount in advance.

traydeuce
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Re: so what happens if your judge is no longer on the bench

Postby traydeuce » Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:27 pm

Curious if this is Aldisert (or Holloway, who wrote me a nice letter asking me if I was a U.S. citizen??). Aldisert, his clerks told me, has books planned to come out in 2014. When he'll be 95.

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Re: so what happens if your judge is no longer on the bench

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:34 pm

traydeuce wrote:Curious if this is Aldisert (or Holloway, who wrote me a nice letter asking me if I was a U.S. citizen??). Aldisert, his clerks told me, has books planned to come out in 2014. When he'll be 95.


nope

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Re: so what happens if your judge is no longer on the bench

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:25 pm

imchuckbass58 wrote:Usually another judge from the district will pick you up. It depends how close to your hire date it is. Basically, other judges are ecstatic to pick up another clerk to help with the workload, but need to have the budget. If the district has already budgeted you, then you'll almost certainly be picked up. If not, you may have a tougher time. Not sure when exactly it happens, but my understanding it's a decent amount in advance.


do you think other judges ask for your "clerkship materials"? do i have to worry about my 3L grades?

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ggocat
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Re: so what happens if your judge is no longer on the bench

Postby ggocat » Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:29 pm

imchuckbass58 wrote:Usually another judge from the district will pick you up. It depends how close to your hire date it is. Basically, other judges are ecstatic to pick up another clerk to help with the workload, but need to have the budget. If the district has already budgeted you, then you'll almost certainly be picked up. If not, you may have a tougher time. Not sure when exactly it happens, but my understanding it's a decent amount in advance.

This or something similar. Just because the judge is gone doesn't mean the work is. The other judges have to pick up the slack... I think they are allowed to keep the staff to do so.

Fwiw, I was a state law clerk and my judge left soon after I started. I ended up working for multiple judges and then the replacement.

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Re: so what happens if your judge is no longer on the bench

Postby imchuckbass58 » Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
imchuckbass58 wrote:Usually another judge from the district will pick you up. It depends how close to your hire date it is. Basically, other judges are ecstatic to pick up another clerk to help with the workload, but need to have the budget. If the district has already budgeted you, then you'll almost certainly be picked up. If not, you may have a tougher time. Not sure when exactly it happens, but my understanding it's a decent amount in advance.


do you think other judges ask for your "clerkship materials"? do i have to worry about my 3L grades?


No idea.

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Re: so what happens if your judge is no longer on the bench

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:51 pm

G. T. L. Rev. wrote:
imchuckbass58 wrote:Usually another judge from the district will pick you up. It depends how close to your hire date it is. Basically, other judges are ecstatic to pick up another clerk to help with the workload, but need to have the budget. If the district has already budgeted you, then you'll almost certainly be picked up. If not, you may have a tougher time. Not sure when exactly it happens, but my understanding it's a decent amount in advance.

This is my understanding also, and I am aware of several instances in which things have unfolded this way. That said, I am also aware of one situation in which a judge hired someone, then decided to leave the bench for private practice, and told his incoming clerks "sorry!" They were apparently left out in the cold. That is not the norm, but it does happn.


thanks all! i'm a little neurotic but with the actual clerkship more than 10 months away --- just starting to freak out --- although in a way it doesn't really matter since i don't have any other clerkship opportunities. hopefully if it doesn't work out with the judge, or any other judge, my summer firm will take me back on late notice.


**** i guess as a question to y'all --- would you pass up the opportunity to clerk for this judge if you thought that your firm would not hire you if things didn't work out??

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ggocat
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Re: so what happens if your judge is no longer on the bench

Postby ggocat » Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:39 pm

Prob not.

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Re: so what happens if your judge is no longer on the bench

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:50 pm

ggocat wrote:Prob not.


probably not - what?

BeenDidThat
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Re: so what happens if your judge is no longer on the bench

Postby BeenDidThat » Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:24 am

Anonymous User wrote:
ggocat wrote:Prob not.


probably not - what?


Probably wouldn't take the clerkship if the job wouldn't come through if the clerkship falls through. That was obvious to me, and I didn't even ask the question.

traydeuce
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Re: so what happens if your judge is no longer on the bench

Postby traydeuce » Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:14 am

The "prob not" makes no sense. OP's employment might be contingent on a clerkship. This is the only clerkship offer OP has. There is a probability that if the judge dies, she'll be assigned to another judge. Even if there were no such probability, and even if it were probable that the judge would die in the next term, a chance of a clerkship is better than no clerkship, given that her employment is contingent on a clerkship. Unless there's something I'm missing and they'd hire her sans clerkship, hire her with a clerkship, but... let her go if her judge dies mid-stream? Law firms are irrational actors sometimes but I can't understand the motivation for that one.

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Re: so what happens if your judge is no longer on the bench

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:23 am

didn't mean to be confusing - i meant what happens if clerkship falls through in let's say, may. At that point i have already turned down my firm offer. What if they won't hire me in May. And then I am stuck with nothing. (Note: I have a COA clerkship lined up for following year - not sure if its contingent on Dist. Ct. -- that was never discussed)
Would you risk for the chance of clerking?

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ggocat
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Re: so what happens if your judge is no longer on the bench

Postby ggocat » Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:would you pass up the opportunity to clerk for this judge if you thought that your firm would not hire you if things didn't work out??

prob not = probably would not pass up the opportunity to clerk for this judge.

Anonymous User wrote:Would you risk for the chance of clerking?


yes.

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clintonius
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Re: so what happens if your judge is no longer on the bench

Postby clintonius » Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:53 pm

BeenDidThat wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
ggocat wrote:Prob not.


probably not - what?


Probably wouldn't take the clerkship if the job wouldn't come through if the clerkship falls through. That was obvious to me, and I didn't even ask the question.

Well, that's embarrassing for you.

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ggocat
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Re: so what happens if your judge is no longer on the bench

Postby ggocat » Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:03 pm

clintonius wrote:
BeenDidThat wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
ggocat wrote:Prob not.


probably not - what?


Probably wouldn't take the clerkship if the job wouldn't come through if the clerkship falls through. That was obvious to me, and I didn't even ask the question.

Well, that's embarrassing for you.

ha. Ambiguity can be avoided by not asking questions with negatives (and that goes for making some declarative statements, as well).

"would you pass up" = "would you not do"

A "no" response can be confusing.

I see this all the time when reading transcripts of trial testimony.

"Q: Isn't it true that you agreed to pay fifty thousands dollars to John Smith?
A: No."

lolwut

/rant

-- signed, law clerk, which prob explains my answer to OP's question. :wink:

Renzo
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Re: so what happens if your judge is no longer on the bench

Postby Renzo » Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:11 pm

G. T. L. Rev. wrote:
imchuckbass58 wrote:Usually another judge from the district will pick you up. It depends how close to your hire date it is. Basically, other judges are ecstatic to pick up another clerk to help with the workload, but need to have the budget. If the district has already budgeted you, then you'll almost certainly be picked up. If not, you may have a tougher time. Not sure when exactly it happens, but my understanding it's a decent amount in advance.

This is my understanding also, and I am aware of several instances in which things have unfolded this way. That said, I am also aware of one situation in which a judge hired someone, then decided to leave the bench for private practice, and told his incoming clerks "sorry!" They were apparently left out in the cold. That is not the norm, but it does happn.


When I was at admitted students' week, one of the speakers had secured a clerkship but the judge died just before he started. He was fortunate that his 2L summer firm took him back into the fold, and he got another clerkship 2 years out.

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Re: so what happens if your judge is no longer on the bench

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:37 am

traydeuce wrote:The "prob not" makes no sense. OP's employment might be contingent on a clerkship. This is the only clerkship offer OP has. There is a probability that if the judge dies, she'll be assigned to another judge. Even if there were no such probability, and even if it were probable that the judge would die in the next term, a chance of a clerkship is better than no clerkship, given that her employment is contingent on a clerkship. Unless there's something I'm missing and they'd hire her sans clerkship, hire her with a clerkship, but... let her go if her judge dies mid-stream? Law firms are irrational actors sometimes but I can't understand the motivation for that one.


Many firms, mine included, would be tough to get into if OP didn't have a 2L SA.

From the firm's perspective, they have to justify giving a clerk a $50K bonus in addition to a second-year's salary. This, to someone who's only worked for a judge, and whose work product they've never had a chance to review. They have really no idea whether you're a good fit in the firm, whether people like working with you, etc.

There are thousands of federal clerks running around in circles. Not all of them are "guaranteed" employment, and most of them usually return to their 2L SA firm. As it is, prestigious law firms have their OWN 2LSAs who have gone out into the fed judiciary to clerk. Those returning clerks don't even have to apply - and they occupy several spots in the firm's roster which are just not available for non-SA clerks. As such, I would always put the paycheck above a "clerkship"

http://abovethelaw.com/2010/05/open-thr ... prospects/
Last edited by Anonymous User on Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:40 am, edited 2 times in total.

03121202698008
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Re: so what happens if your judge is no longer on the bench

Postby 03121202698008 » Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:39 am

This happened in E.D. Mich. this year with a senior judge. The other judges absorbed his interns and clerks.

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Re: so what happens if your judge is no longer on the bench

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:49 am

just got a COA call. Don't lose hope guys.




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