patent-oriented clerkship calls?

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patent-oriented clerkship calls?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:18 am

any of these around?
Top 10% MVP with tech background, USPTO registered. 80 applications. 0 calls. Applied broadly, but mostly where judge has some kind of patent docket.

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Re: patent-oriented clerkship calls?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:44 am

Anonymous User wrote:any of these around?
Top 10% MVP with tech background, USPTO registered. 80 applications. 0 calls. Applied broadly, but mostly where judge has some kind of patent docket.


Any of you NOT receive calls? I guess I should frame it that way.

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Re: patent-oriented clerkship calls?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:05 pm

i can report interview invites for patent-judges @ Fed Cir, E.D.Tx., and N.D.Cal.

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Re: patent-oriented clerkship calls?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:05 pm

I am so frustrated, I am in a similar boat (not MVP, but top of my class at T30) - I applied to over 100... ChemE with work experience before law school

I realize this is not constructive, but I'm feeling down

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Re: patent-oriented clerkship calls?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:35 pm

Maybe district courts don't like clerk candidates who are "only" interested in patent cases?
Fed Cir is certainly a different story.

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Re: patent-oriented clerkship calls?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Maybe district courts don't like clerk candidates who are "only" interested in patent cases?
Fed Cir is certainly a different story.

I think some d. ct. judges in places like e.d.tx etc. are ok with only-patent candidates because of docket.
Maybe other judges in patent-heavy jurisdictions have one patents-clerk and one crim-clerk.
I know Alsup from N.D.Cal. had a clerkship open just for IP students with a tech background - and a different clerkship option exclusively for the criminal docket.

But this discussion is really reserved to about 7-10 district judges nationwide, who can be said to have such heavy patent dockets that they would look highly upon a "patent-oriented" clerkship

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Re: patent-oriented clerkship calls?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:09 pm

I am Top 10% at CCN and just received an offer from a Federal Circuit judge. However, this judge was my only COA interview -- even though I have an engineering/science background (although no work experience). I did have two additional interview requests from C.D. Cal. -- which receives a reasonable number of patent cases, but not like E.D.Tex. (where I didn't apply). I also had several professors call on my behalf.

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Re: patent-oriented clerkship calls?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:53 pm

.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: patent-oriented clerkship calls?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:02 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Wouldn't worry about landing Fed. Cir. if you're a techie at a top 20 school and have above median grades. Lots of top 1/3rd from t30s with tech backgrounds routinely land Fed. Cir. clerkships as alums. Do a Linkedin search. You only need the top 10% standing if you want it straight out of law school. And even then, its probably optimal to do it after a year of work anyway because of the nature of the clerkship.

This is the least selective/prestigious COA. You just need the right undergrad major. Also, Fed Cir is the most accessible COA if you apply outside OSCAR with a tech bg. Lots of these judges hire by technical specialty. E.g. 1 ee, 1 cs, 1 bio, 1 me, etc.


Huh? I know plenty of top 10% T14 LR with exec board people who had technical backgrounds (engineering) who were unable to get interviews with the Fed Circuit. From the people I've talked to, the Fed Circuit has: (a) become increasingly competitive (it's a COA in DC after all) and (b) has moved much more towards alumni hiring.

In other words, this idea that people with only above medium grades at a top 20 school with a tech background seems to be patently false, or, at best, the experience of rare outliers.

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Re: patent-oriented clerkship calls?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Wouldn't worry about landing Fed. Cir. if you're a techie at a top 20 school and have above median grades. Lots of top 1/3rd from t30s with tech backgrounds routinely land Fed. Cir. clerkships as alums. Do a Linkedin search. You only need the top 10% standing if you want it straight out of law school. And even then, its probably optimal to do it after a year of work anyway because of the nature of the clerkship.

This is the least selective/prestigious COA. You just need the right undergrad major. Also, Fed Cir is the most accessible COA if you apply outside OSCAR with a tech bg. Lots of these judges hire by technical specialty. E.g. 1 ee, 1 cs, 1 bio, 1 me, etc.


Huh? I know plenty of top 10% T14 LR with exec board people who had technical backgrounds (engineering) who were unable to get interviews with the Fed Circuit. From the people I've talked to, the Fed Circuit has: (a) become increasingly competitive (it's a COA in DC after all) and (b) has moved much more towards alumni hiring.

In other words, this idea that people with only above medium grades at a top 20 school with a tech background seems to be patently false, or, at best, the experience of rare outliers.


As I said, just do a cursory Google or Linkedin search for fed. cir. clerks.

I learned this little fact from a callback at Knobbe Martens, where I met Fed. Cirs. from non-elite students at non-elite schools like BYU, St. Johns, etc. Just visit Knobbe's website and look at their clerks.

Why is this bad news? I'm delivering good news. Fed. Cir. is less selective than peer COAs.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: patent-oriented clerkship calls?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Wouldn't worry about landing Fed. Cir. if you're a techie at a top 20 school and have above median grades. Lots of top 1/3rd from t30s with tech backgrounds routinely land Fed. Cir. clerkships as alums. Do a Linkedin search. You only need the top 10% standing if you want it straight out of law school. And even then, its probably optimal to do it after a year of work anyway because of the nature of the clerkship.

This is the least selective/prestigious COA. You just need the right undergrad major. Also, Fed Cir is the most accessible COA if you apply outside OSCAR with a tech bg. Lots of these judges hire by technical specialty. E.g. 1 ee, 1 cs, 1 bio, 1 me, etc.


Huh? I know plenty of top 10% T14 LR with exec board people who had technical backgrounds (engineering) who were unable to get interviews with the Fed Circuit. From the people I've talked to, the Fed Circuit has: (a) become increasingly competitive (it's a COA in DC after all) and (b) has moved much more towards alumni hiring.

In other words, this idea that people with only above medium grades at a top 20 school with a tech background seems to be patently false, or, at best, the experience of rare outliers.


As I said, just do a cursory Google or Linkedin search for fed. cir. clerks.

The alums Fed. Cir. hires are not coif or honors graduates from t6 law schools. The average alum clerk seems to be above-median graduate from a pretty random law school who had a tech bg


Data that's more than 3 years old is pretty inaccurate for clerkships.

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Re: patent-oriented clerkship calls?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:21 pm

Here are GPA averages for clerkships for 2001-11 from one of the MVPs (I'm sure you can guess which one it is), broken down by state within some circuits:
1st Cir: 3.78
2d Cir: 3.79
3d Cir: 3.65
4th Cir
--Maryland: 3.83
--Virginia: 3.89
--South Carolina: 3.61
--West Virginia: 3.76
5th Cir
--Louisiana: 3.67
--Mississippi: 3.5
--Texas: 3.69
6th Cir
--Kentucky: 3.6
--Ohio: 3.78
--Tennessee: 3.64
7th Cir: 3.75
8th Cir: 3.6
9th Cir: 3.69
10th Cir
--Colorado: 3.68
--Kansas: 3.45
11th Cir: 3.73
DC Cir: 3.76
Fed Cir: 3.59

Not to rag on UNH, but also check out --LinkRemoved--

The point is this. People who land Federal Circuit clerkships without stellar law grades aren't outliers. They're the stable of Fed. Cir. clerks. This is good news for techies interested in clerking.

If you're a law school applicant checking this thread out for some reason, I would look strongly at the D.C. schools (American, Catholic, George Mason, GWU PT/FT, and Georgetown PT/FT). Alums of these schools with tech backgrounds have an edge over general candidates because the patent appellate community in DC is tiny. If you can crack top 10% at a school like Catholic or American, you've actually got a not-so-bad shot at Fed. Cir. Both schools are adding patent professors. Get to know them.

GWU, for example, boasts the highest percentage of the Fed. Cir. clerks. But GWU also attracts a ton of engineers, so its more competitive to land Fed. Cir. out of there.

The Fed. Cir. is challenging if you don't have a tech background, which is when grades become more important.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: patent-oriented clerkship calls?

Postby vamedic03 » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:35 pm

GPA data without knowledge of ranks / curve is not very useful.

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Re: patent-oriented clerkship calls?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Huh? I know plenty of top 10% T14 LR with exec board people who had technical backgrounds (engineering) who were unable to get interviews with the Fed Circuit. From the people I've talked to, the Fed Circuit has: (a) become increasingly competitive (it's a COA in DC after all) and (b) has moved much more towards alumni hiring.

In other words, this idea that people with only above medium grades at a top 20 school with a tech background seems to be patently false, or, at best, the experience of rare outliers.


The reason you know plenty of top 10% T14 LR with exec board ppl w/ tech backgrounds who struck out at Fed. Cir. isn't because of its selectivity. Its because Fed. Cir. will take a top 30% alum from a random law school with a tech background over your friends. So yes, its more selective in that weird sense. But not from a law school GPA sense.

I mean, if you're a law student - you know "IP Secure" right? You see friends who have median GPAs landing several callbacks and deciding between offers from big law for the patent groups right? They're always engineers right? Same deal here man.

IP Secure.

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Re: patent-oriented clerkship calls?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:43 pm

Here are GPA averages for clerkships for 2001-11 from one of the MVPs (I'm sure you can guess which one it is), broken down by state within some circuits:
1st Cir: 3.78
2d Cir: 3.79
3d Cir: 3.65
4th Cir
--Maryland: 3.83
--Virginia: 3.89
--South Carolina: 3.61
--West Virginia: 3.76
5th Cir
--Louisiana: 3.67
--Mississippi: 3.5
--Texas: 3.69
6th Cir
--Kentucky: 3.6
--Ohio: 3.78
--Tennessee: 3.64
7th Cir: 3.75
8th Cir: 3.6
9th Cir: 3.69
10th Cir
--Colorado: 3.68
--Kansas: 3.45
11th Cir: 3.73
DC Cir: 3.76
Fed Cir: 3.59


It's gotta be UVA so 3.33 median

Why?

VA:3.89 (Wilkinson?)
no Mich in 6th Cir. (Kethledge)
Last edited by Anonymous User on Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: patent-oriented clerkship calls?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:It's gotta be UVA so 3.33 median

Why?

VA:3.89 (Wilkinson?)
no Mich in 6th Cir. (Kethledge)

Gotta look at median after 2L year.

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Re: patent-oriented clerkship calls?

Postby dood » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Huh? I know plenty of top 10% T14 LR with exec board people who had technical backgrounds (engineering) who were unable to get interviews with the Fed Circuit. From the people I've talked to, the Fed Circuit has: (a) become increasingly competitive (it's a COA in DC after all) and (b) has moved much more towards alumni hiring.

In other words, this idea that people with only above medium grades at a top 20 school with a tech background seems to be patently false, or, at best, the experience of rare outliers.


The reason you know plenty of top 10% T14 LR with exec board ppl w/ tech backgrounds who struck out at Fed. Cir. isn't because of its selectivity. Its because Fed. Cir. will take a top 30% alum from a random law school with a tech background over your friends.


lol at this brutal "fuck u" reply

im a 3L at geedub and i assure both of u that u are both right. the clerking stats indicate that with 1 exception, every CoA clerk from geedub was within top 15% (they dont have a more specific breakdown). the fed cir is getting much more competitive bc theres a ton of patent attorneys with engr backgrounds. i think even with engr or patent specific skills u need to be at the top of ur class.

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Re: patent-oriented clerkship calls?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:It's gotta be UVA so 3.33 median

Why?

VA:3.89 (Wilkinson?)
no Mich in 6th Cir. (Kethledge)

Gotta look at median after 2L year.



UVA is forced 3.33 median or median GPA of students in the class.

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Re: patent-oriented clerkship calls?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:46 pm

dood wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Huh? I know plenty of top 10% T14 LR with exec board people who had technical backgrounds (engineering) who were unable to get interviews with the Fed Circuit. From the people I've talked to, the Fed Circuit has: (a) become increasingly competitive (it's a COA in DC after all) and (b) has moved much more towards alumni hiring.

In other words, this idea that people with only above medium grades at a top 20 school with a tech background seems to be patently false, or, at best, the experience of rare outliers.


The reason you know plenty of top 10% T14 LR with exec board ppl w/ tech backgrounds who struck out at Fed. Cir. isn't because of its selectivity. Its because Fed. Cir. will take a top 30% alum from a random law school with a tech background over your friends.


lol at this brutal "fuck u" reply

im a 3L at geedub and i assure both of u that u are both right. the clerking stats indicate that with 1 exception, every CoA clerk from geedub was within top 15% (they dont have a more specific breakdown). the fed cir is getting much more competitive bc theres a ton of patent attorneys with engr backgrounds. i think even with engr or patent specific skills u need to be at the top of ur class.


Yeah. Again. Because geedub is a pretty weird school with respect to the number of IP folks in there. I mean, you can't make a right turn in a GWU hallway without running into a EE.

Doesn't a certain Fed. Cir. judge teach there? Also, doesn't GW have the highest % of people in the Fed. Cir.? I wonder if he just picks the people who book his class.

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Re: patent-oriented clerkship calls?

Postby dood » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
dood wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Huh? I know plenty of top 10% T14 LR with exec board people who had technical backgrounds (engineering) who were unable to get interviews with the Fed Circuit. From the people I've talked to, the Fed Circuit has: (a) become increasingly competitive (it's a COA in DC after all) and (b) has moved much more towards alumni hiring.

In other words, this idea that people with only above medium grades at a top 20 school with a tech background seems to be patently false, or, at best, the experience of rare outliers.


The reason you know plenty of top 10% T14 LR with exec board ppl w/ tech backgrounds who struck out at Fed. Cir. isn't because of its selectivity. Its because Fed. Cir. will take a top 30% alum from a random law school with a tech background over your friends.


lol at this brutal "fuck u" reply

im a 3L at geedub and i assure both of u that u are both right. the clerking stats indicate that with 1 exception, every CoA clerk from geedub was within top 15% (they dont have a more specific breakdown). the fed cir is getting much more competitive bc theres a ton of patent attorneys with engr backgrounds. i think even with engr or patent specific skills u need to be at the top of ur class.


Yeah. Again. Because geedub is a pretty weird school with respect to the number of IP folks in there. I mean, you can't make a right turn in a GWU hallway without running into a EE.

Doesn't a certain Fed. Cir. judge teach there? Also, doesn't GW have the highest % of people in the Fed. Cir.? I wonder if he just picks the people who book his class.



rader teaches patent law here. he only picks hot girls for clerks. seriously, he has somewhat of a creepy old guy / womanizer rep. his 4 current clerks are no shit 9.8 on the richter scale. great professor though (actually cares, makes boring shit really interesting, tells good stories).

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Re: patent-oriented clerkship calls?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:52 pm

prototypical patent clerk:
http://www.tklaw.com/attorneys.cfm?acti ... &id=100127

That guy graduated from American. And wasn't even on Law Review. Seems like he didn't even graduate with any honors. And he not only clerked for the Chief Judge of E.D.Tx., but also the Chief Judge of Fed. Cir.

Here's the deal guys. Engineers/Lawyers don't need to rock out in law school to have a pretty awesome career, including clerkships, big law, etc. And don't believe anybody who says otherwise.

I haven't met a SINGLE electrical engineering law student who didn't get big law from a top 25 law school ITE

Not sure why the equation magically changes for clerkships. Yes, more selective than most law firms, but you're still competing with engineers for Fed. Cir. spots. Competition pool is much smaller.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: patent-oriented clerkship calls?

Postby dood » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:53 pm

by the way, richter scale is exponential log based (just so u know what kind of 9.8 im talking about)

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Re: patent-oriented clerkship calls?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Maybe district courts don't like clerk candidates who are "only" interested in patent cases?
Fed Cir is certainly a different story.


My judge hates patent cases, and we only do 2 a year.

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Re: patent-oriented clerkship calls?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Maybe district courts don't like clerk candidates who are "only" interested in patent cases?
Fed Cir is certainly a different story.


My judge hates patent cases, and we only do 2 a year.

I externed for a judge who hated patent cases because they took up too much time which he wanted to spend on other cases. Did your judge hate it because of the tech stuff? Mind sharing district? Curious.

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Re: patent-oriented clerkship calls?

Postby vamedic03 » Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:00 am

Anonymous User wrote:prototypical patent clerk:
http://www.tklaw.com/attorneys.cfm?acti ... &id=100127

That guy graduated from American. And wasn't even on Law Review. Seems like he didn't even graduate with any honors. And he not only clerked for the Chief Judge of E.D.Tx., but also the Chief Judge of Fed. Cir.

Here's the deal guys. Engineers/Lawyers don't need to rock out in law school to have a pretty awesome career, including clerkships, big law, etc. And don't believe anybody who says otherwise.

I haven't met a SINGLE electrical engineering law student who didn't get big law from a top 25 law school ITE

Not sure why the equation magically changes for clerkships. Yes, more selective than most law firms, but you're still competing with engineers for Fed. Cir. spots. Competition pool is much smaller.


Love that this is coming from an anonymous poster.




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