I struck out

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
User avatar
TTH
Posts: 10378
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 1:14 am

Re: I struck out

Postby TTH » Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:10 am

Can you sell yourself to any government agency? I know a lot of attorneys who spent a couple years at their state's AG office, then got a firm job after getting some experience.

User avatar
minnbills
Posts: 3153
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:04 pm

Re: I struck out

Postby minnbills » Sun Sep 11, 2011 11:22 am

YourCaptain wrote:
minnbills wrote:Good luck, if you choose to stay keep that nose to the grindstone and don't give up.


You're not yet in this situation so I won't be too harsh - do you have any idea of how hard it is out there?

OP is at a school in one of several very saturated markets; if he is *fortunately* at Colorado he has a shot but otherwise he is in a very rough position. Putting his head down to grind out "connections" for 3L jobs is very unrealistic. Trust me, you can send out hundreds of applications, get silence for 2 weeks, and then receive the flood of paper-mail rejections. As one hiring partner said during an OCI interview to me, "...It's just unfortunate because your competition is almost unreal in how brutal it is."

OP, here's what you ought to do. It's early September, smaller markets haven't begun moving in earnest yet. Your grades seem decent enough - get in contact with Partners who either (both is best) attended your UG or LS and work in markets where you have a connection/tie. Send the firm an app, and half-hour later, email the partner with your resume saying, "Hey, I'm [X], interested in your firm because of [Y], if you have any questions please let me know." (Not verbatim, but general gist). Prepare your apps today, send them out Monday, and godspeed.

Otherwise, I would (personally) not stick around for 3L.


Dude, I was just giving him some well wishes and encouragement. I'm well aware of the situation.

helfer snooterbagon
Posts: 203
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:04 pm

Re: I struck out

Postby helfer snooterbagon » Sun Sep 11, 2011 11:35 am

I'm well aware of the situation


As demonstrated by your avatar!

User avatar
NYC Law
Posts: 1569
Joined: Thu May 26, 2011 3:33 pm

Re: I struck out

Postby NYC Law » Sun Sep 11, 2011 11:36 am

helfer snooterbagon wrote:
I'm well aware of the situation


As demonstrated by your avatar!


Bravo.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273099
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: I struck out

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 11, 2011 12:43 pm

This thread is horrible. MOST PEOPLE DO NOT GET THEIR JOBS THROUGH OCI! If you only wanted biglaw, then drop out. If you actually want to be a lawyer, then recognize that you, like most law students, will have other options and opportunities later on. Keep working hard and networking.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273099
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: I struck out

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 11, 2011 12:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:This thread is horrible. MOST PEOPLE DO NOT GET THEIR JOBS THROUGH OCI! If you only wanted biglaw, then drop out. If you actually want to be a lawyer, then recognize that you, like most law students, will have other options and opportunities later on. Keep working hard and networking.



Yeah I echo this sentiment. If everyone got jobs through OCI, there would be no small/midsize lawfirms. This is not the end of the road, just the end of a certain path.

ITE8NY
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2011 1:25 pm

Re: I struck out

Postby ITE8NY » Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:01 pm

TTH wrote:Can you sell yourself to any government agency? I know a lot of attorneys who spent a couple years at their state's AG office, then got a firm job after getting some experience.


The federal government is not hiring. There's a freeze. State governments are also not hiring. They're broke. Mid-size and small firms already have a glut of former summer associates they could pick from, not to mention laterals from other small/mid firms and biglaw burnouts. Even if OP gets a miraculous cb, and then a more miraculous offer, he probably won't actually get a good job.
Last edited by ITE8NY on Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ITE8NY
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2011 1:25 pm

Re: I struck out

Postby ITE8NY » Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:This thread is horrible. MOST PEOPLE DO NOT GET THEIR JOBS THROUGH OCI! If you only wanted biglaw, then drop out. If you actually want to be a lawyer, then recognize that you, like most law students, will have other options and opportunities later on. Keep working hard and networking.


People in OP's position ARE NOT GETTING JOBS, PERIOD. Check you jdunderground.com. That board--which is a post-LS board, not filled with shiny-eyed still-in-school denialists like this one--reflects pretty accurately what life is like for a JD who graduates from OP's school. Yeah, maybe he'll get a job down the line. But he'll also be $100k in debt working at the shit level of lawyering doing boring work for obnoxious bosses and poor clients. How is that any better of a life than whatever he can scrape up as a liberal arts grad?

User avatar
dood
Posts: 1639
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:59 am

Re: I struck out

Postby dood » Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:37 pm

wat else is he gonna do if he drops out? lib arts degree = starbucks

User avatar
haus
Posts: 2817
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:07 am

Re: I struck out

Postby haus » Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:50 pm

ITE8NY wrote:People in OP's position ARE NOT GETTING JOBS, PERIOD. Check you jdunderground.com. That board--which is a post-LS board, not filled with shiny-eyed still-in-school denialists like this one--reflects pretty accurately what life is like for a JD who graduates from OP's school. Yeah, maybe he'll get a job down the line. But he'll also be $100k in debt working at the shit level of lawyering doing boring work for obnoxious bosses and poor clients. How is that any better of a life than whatever he can scrape up as a liberal arts grad?


Compared to be 66k in debt and having no chance whatsoever to be a lawyer in the future?

Yes it is better than what he is facing now, the liberal arts degree is not going to get him/her anything. NOTHING. This person has shmucked the point of no return hard, so now it becomes a mid-term / long-term game. 10 years from now will this person be better of with a JD or having dropped out? How about 20 years? 35 years?

Sure the wankers at jdunderground.com will cry and whine about how law school has ruined their lives, but these are primarily children who have never had to deal with hardship that are getting a little taste. They will get over it, or they will learn that no one gives a hoot.

On the bright side, you have the better part of a year. Re-evaluate your situation, cast a much wider net, up to and including areas outside of law that you are interested in. While doing this, keep in mind that there are several fields where legal matters are closely intertwined, or will likely become heavily intertwined with legal matters in the future. Consider the possibility that spending a number of years in one of this fields may provide you with a level of knowledge and expertise that a career can be built upon. Sure it is not the fairy-tail answer, but it could be much worse.

User avatar
minnbills
Posts: 3153
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:04 pm

Re: I struck out

Postby minnbills » Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:05 pm

OP, another thing you should consider is compliance. Corporations do hire people to come in and work in those departments, usually right out of law school.

MrAnon
Posts: 1615
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:08 pm

Re: I struck out

Postby MrAnon » Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:10 pm

The benefit of dropping out that the idealists here can't grasp is that when you do it then it forces you to figure out a new plan. As long as you are meandering through the legal profession you will be scraping to make a living off this thing you dont really want anymore and always coming up short, hitting that ceiling that your grades and school made for you. But when you are down and out with no other option you'll figure out what you really would do without law school and you'll just start doing it.

User avatar
sunynp
Posts: 1899
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 2:06 pm

Re: I struck out

Postby sunynp » Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:16 pm

Dude, if you can't deal with that amount of debt - which I don't blame you - and no solid job prospect - then I support your idea to drop out.

I don't think I could stay in school facing that much non-dischargable debt and no solid job. If you can't get your money back for this semester, you might as well stay and focus on finding jobs.

littlebit
Posts: 77
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:01 am

Re: I struck out

Postby littlebit » Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:41 pm

You are a 2L right? Start looking for a part time job this semester at a law firm in your city. You can easily work 20 hours a week, make some money and get some much needed experience. You really can make something happen. You are top 15% (not easy at all) at a great school that probably has a strong alumni base - find out how many of them work in the city you are in and get busy. Go to Career services and make it known that you are willingly to do whatever it takes to get a job. I really want to emphasize that you can make this happen but you have to act and act fast. Set some goals, contact 10 firms next week - make finding a job the most important thing of your day.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273099
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: I struck out

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:52 pm

minnbills wrote:OP, another thing you should consider is compliance. Corporations do hire people to come in and work in those departments, usually right out of law school.


+1 This is often overlooked, but I know several people who took compliance jobs with their J.D. at global banks in NYC. You're making 60-80K to start, but your career prospects are generally pretty good, including moving from compliance to the business side.

meshtdagn
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:57 am

Re: I struck out

Postby meshtdagn » Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:53 pm

littlebit wrote:You are a 2L right? Start looking for a part time job this semester at a law firm in your city. You can easily work 20 hours a week, make some money and get some much needed experience. You really can make something happen. You are top 15% (not easy at all) at a great school that probably has a strong alumni base - find out how many of them work in the city you are in and get busy. Go to Career services and make it known that you are willingly to do whatever it takes to get a job. I really want to emphasize that you can make this happen but you have to act and act fast. Set some goals, contact 10 firms next week - make finding a job the most important thing of your day.


10 firms a week? Do 10 firms a day!

User avatar
minnbills
Posts: 3153
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:04 pm

Re: I struck out

Postby minnbills » Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:02 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
minnbills wrote:OP, another thing you should consider is compliance. Corporations do hire people to come in and work in those departments, usually right out of law school.


+1 This is often overlooked, but I know several people who took compliance jobs with their J.D. at global banks in NYC. You're making 60-80K to start, but your career prospects are generally pretty good, including moving from compliance to the business side.


I have an aunt who did this, she went to a T100 and 15 years after she graduated she manages the north american compliance operations of a f500 company. Granted, she doesn't really like her job but she gets paid about 250k and only works 40 hours a week. That's undoubtedly a major success story but people do overlook the possibility.

User avatar
MrKappus
Posts: 1685
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:46 am

Re: I struck out

Postby MrKappus » Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:10 pm

MrAnon wrote:The benefit of dropping out that the idealists here can't grasp is that when you do it then it forces you to figure out a new plan. As long as you are meandering through the legal profession you will be scraping to make a living off this thing you dont really want anymore and always coming up short, hitting that ceiling that your grades and school made for you. But when you are down and out with no other option you'll figure out what you really would do without law school and you'll just start doing it.


lol. The benefit of getting run over by a bus is that it forces you to focus on your health. What's your point?

legaleagle9
Posts: 76
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 3:59 pm

Re: I struck out

Postby legaleagle9 » Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:43 pm

what is compliance? I've never heard of it...

User avatar
minnbills
Posts: 3153
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:04 pm

Re: I struck out

Postby minnbills » Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:45 pm

legaleagle9 wrote:what is compliance? I've never heard of it...


A department within a company that basically makes sure the company's operations are in compliance with government regulations.

legaleagle9
Posts: 76
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 3:59 pm

Re: I struck out

Postby legaleagle9 » Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:47 pm

minnbills wrote:
legaleagle9 wrote:what is compliance? I've never heard of it...


A department within a company that basically makes sure the company's operations are in compliance with government regulations.


ohh I see. How tough are these jobs to land? By how tough I am are your needed credentials (class rank, school rank) similar to that of getting hired to BigLaw, and in general do you need luck to land a job in compliance?

User avatar
minnbills
Posts: 3153
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:04 pm

Re: I struck out

Postby minnbills » Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:56 pm

legaleagle9 wrote:
minnbills wrote:
legaleagle9 wrote:what is compliance? I've never heard of it...


A department within a company that basically makes sure the company's operations are in compliance with government regulations.


ohh I see. How tough are these jobs to land? By how tough I am are your needed credentials (class rank, school rank) similar to that of getting hired to BigLaw, and in general do you need luck to land a job in compliance?


I don't know a whole lot about hiring practices. To give you an anecdote, my aunt's department hired someone from a TTTT this past year, though I have no clue what that person's class rank was of if there were others.

I do know that people tend to be reluctant to go into compliance because you'll A) never see the inside of a courtroom and B) you're basically a "no man" within the company. It's your job to tell people what they can't do. Thus compliance people are often painted as the bad guys by operations people which can lead to friction.

My sense is that people who are better qualified (I.E went to a T14, have options with law firms) tend to write off compliance while business oriented people will try for in-house or strategic positions, which you can get right out of law school if you've got good credentials, though these opportunities are few and far between.

Also, I think corporations want candidates who can demosntrate a commitment to working compliance and that they won't flee the moment they get an offer to work with a law firm. People who end up with these jobs seem to have internships during law school or clerk for the department beforehand.

MrAnon
Posts: 1615
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:08 pm

Re: I struck out

Postby MrAnon » Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:01 pm

MrKappus wrote:
MrAnon wrote:The benefit of dropping out that the idealists here can't grasp is that when you do it then it forces you to figure out a new plan. As long as you are meandering through the legal profession you will be scraping to make a living off this thing you dont really want anymore and always coming up short, hitting that ceiling that your grades and school made for you. But when you are down and out with no other option you'll figure out what you really would do without law school and you'll just start doing it.


lol. The benefit of getting run over by a bus is that it forces you to focus on your health. What's your point?


Getting hit by the bus is inevitable. At least if he gives in now he'll be able to better control where his life goes.

Riles246
Posts: 96
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:29 pm

Re: I struck out

Postby Riles246 » Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:51 am

I would advise against dropping out. If you are willing to relocate, there are regions in this country that would be happy to snap up a Tier 1 student who is at the top of his class. The salary may be lower, but in many cases the cost of living is so much lower that it would be about the same. I know Wisconsin is one of those areas, but there are many more. Do you like law? Even if I completely struck out at OCI, there is no way I'd leave law school since I really enjoy law. For what it's worth, many smaller firms don't hire during 2L OCI and instead wait until a few months prior to graduation (since they can't predict their need 2+ years in advance like the big firms can).

If you like the law and are willing to be flexible, I say stay.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273099
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: I struck out

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:27 pm

ITE8NY wrote:
TTH wrote:Can you sell yourself to any government agency? I know a lot of attorneys who spent a couple years at their state's AG office, then got a firm job after getting some experience.


The federal government is not hiring. There's a freeze. State governments are also not hiring. They're broke. Mid-size and small firms already have a glut of former summer associates they could pick from, not to mention laterals from other small/mid firms and biglaw burnouts. Even if OP gets a miraculous cb, and then a more miraculous offer, he probably won't actually get a good job.


"Just do government" is the most hilarious advice to people who struck out during OCI. "What's that, you keep losing at roulette? Well have you considered playing the lottery?"




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.