NY Associates: Where to live?

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BruceWayne
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Re: NY Associates: Where to live?

Postby BruceWayne » Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:34 pm

Veyron wrote:WTF is wrong with you people, you should be able to nab a small studio for 1500 a month, even in manfuckinghattan.


I'm shocked at the number of grown ass men who like the idea of working 70 hour work weeks for a law firm to live in a studio apartment. I mean in all seriousness for all that why even go to law school (especially the hellaciously competitive one's you probably had to attend to even have a shot at these jobs)? If you're going to live in a studio apartment working those kind of hours you might as well just have stuck with undergrad and tried to get a 30-40K a year job with a normal work week (although in this economy those are tough as hell to get too). You're basically living like a college student even though you're probably in/pushing your 30s. I don't get why you would go down such a difficult academic path, then go to a job that's known for being brutal, so you can live in a studio and spend 12 hours of your day at work. Not to mention a grown man living in a studio apartment working those kinds of hours isn't exactly attractive to most women, although I guess most guys on here gave up on that a long time ago.

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rayiner
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Re: NY Associates: Where to live?

Postby rayiner » Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:46 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:Rayiner, I think that people who have lived in NYC for a while are trying to offer some useful advice that it might behoove you to take into consideration. For instance I live in an apartment that is well under market value but a fantastic place which I found on craigslist a couple years ago. Feel free to dismiss everything under two grand a month as de facto terrible but you're missing out.


I'm sure OP appreciates the advice. I'm trying to give OP the other side of the story. IMHO, resident New Yorkers tend to give out of towners terrible advice when it comes to housing. Some posts in ITT reflect that (live in Greenwich Village, etc). I think while they're well-meaning, they just don't understand the expectations of people from other big cities (except maybe Boston, which somehow has even worse housing stock), much less the 'burbs. Someone who grew up in the suburbs of Chicago then lived in the city are going to double-take at $2000 apartments that have 40-year old subway tile in the bathroom.

Posts on Craigslist are full of lies. They're internally inconsistent. The photos rarely match up with the reality. I spent weeks this past summer looking for places on Craigslist, and every time I went to visit one I would be shocked by how the reality did not match up with the fantasy. Are there some good deals on CL? Sure, maybe you'll find the rare renovated 2BR that's going for $1500 per month on the UWS. But more likely that apartment is going to be gross like the dilapidated 2BR I paid $2000/semester for in college.

Since firms pay for brokers, my recommendation to OP is to use one, find a roommate, and get a reasonable (split two-ways) high-rise in a cheaper area near work. These can be found in Midtown West, Midtown East and thereabouts, and the Financial District. If, after a year of this, you feel comfortable venturing out into the NYC rental market via Craigslist, then do that.

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dailygrind
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Re: NY Associates: Where to live?

Postby dailygrind » Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:50 pm

Anyone derailing this topic by injecting their personal preferences: stop.

ruski
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Re: NY Associates: Where to live?

Postby ruski » Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:07 pm

rayiner does make one decent point. i have lived in several large cities, and the words "nice" "livable" etc. have a very different definitions in nyc, particularly manhattan. standards for what is livable are much lower here since everything is old and never maintained.

neighborhoods in nyc are so different that you really just have to go see for yourself. as this thread proves you will never get a consensus on where the best places to live are. with that said, my vote would be for midtown east/west, ues or uws. i would stay away from village/stuy town unless you dont mind all of your neighbors being hipsters and/or 19 year olds from nyu and/or other artsy peoples. its not really where professionals live (yes you will find some, but they will be in the minority). everything in fidi closes at 7 but if your firm is downtown may be worth it - i hear its not so cheap anymore though and prices are/have been going up there.

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Re: NY Associates: Where to live?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:10 pm

For someone a bit older who is married (but no kids), how feasible is living in a place like New Rochelle and commuting to a firm near GCT like DPW?

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Re: NY Associates: Where to live?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:22 pm

rayiner wrote:^^^ Firms will usually cover broker's fees.

Also: the apartments on the UWS in that price range suck. Doorman buildings from the '20s with outdated plumbing, god-awful bathrooms, terrible common spaces, etc.

OP: since you seem to be from out of town, take "quite nice, quite livable" with a grain of salt. New Yorkers have a very warped perception of these terms.

I went to go see a 2BR in Astoria where the tenant was subletting one of the rooms for $700/mo (so $1500/mo for the whole apartment). After seeing the bathroom I literally had to leave immediately. Like "uh, thanks, I uh, will call you."


Seriously not true. I'm not originally from NY and come from an area with a very high quality of life, and I absolutely love my apartment on the UWS. People are continually stunned by how nice and spacious it is considering that I live in Manhattan and pay under 2k. Yes the building is pre-war, but its recently renovated as are most of the apartments - I have no complaints about any of the fixtures in mine. I don't know what you mean by "common spaces" but if you came to NYC expecting to have ridiculous building amenities then you clearly had no idea what you were doing or getting yourself into. My lobby and elevator are well-kept, and the laundry room is fine. If you wanted a gym or some other common space in your building, you were kidding yourself. More high-rises are popping up in NYC but that is not the norm as far as where the vast majority of people live. None of my friends in the area live in shitholes either, even the apartments that are on the small side or in walk-ups are still nice by any standard. There are definitely tons of shoddy places around but there are also lots of really great apartments if you put in the time and don't have ridiculous expectations.

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Veyron
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Re: NY Associates: Where to live?

Postby Veyron » Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:34 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
Veyron wrote:WTF is wrong with you people, you should be able to nab a small studio for 1500 a month, even in manfuckinghattan.


I'm shocked at the number of grown ass men who like the idea of working 70 hour work weeks for a law firm to live in a studio apartment. I mean in all seriousness for all that why even go to law school (especially the hellaciously competitive one's you probably had to attend to even have a shot at these jobs)? If you're going to live in a studio apartment working those kind of hours you might as well just have stuck with undergrad and tried to get a 30-40K a year job with a normal work week (although in this economy those are tough as hell to get too). You're basically living like a college student even though you're probably in/pushing your 30s. I don't get why you would go down such a difficult academic path, then go to a job that's known for being brutal, so you can live in a studio and spend 12 hours of your day at work. Not to mention a grown man living in a studio apartment working those kinds of hours isn't exactly attractive to most women, although I guess most guys on here gave up on that a long time ago.


You pay the premium to live in the center of the universe. A man with HIS OWN apartment in Manhattan who pulls down 160 + bonus is pretty damn attractive to women from the area. Sure, it won't impress a girl from Wyoming, but neither will your lack of a car.

Besides, if you need to show off your money to pick up girls, you're doing it wrong.

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Re: NY Associates: Where to live?

Postby Royal » Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:42 pm

What are everyone's thoughts about the UES?

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Helmholtz
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Re: NY Associates: Where to live?

Postby Helmholtz » Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:42 pm

Royal wrote:What are everyone's thoughts about the UES?


It sucks. Have lived there.

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Re: NY Associates: Where to live?

Postby Royal » Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:43 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
Royal wrote:What are everyone's thoughts about the UES?


It sucks. Have lived there.


Could you elaborate? I know it doesn't have the nightlife scene you'd see downtown, but at least it also has less hipsters.

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Helmholtz
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Re: NY Associates: Where to live?

Postby Helmholtz » Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:52 pm

Royal wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
Royal wrote:What are everyone's thoughts about the UES?


It sucks. Have lived there.


Could you elaborate? I know it doesn't have the nightlife scene you'd see downtown, but at least it also has less hipsters.


It's just uninteresting and the grocery stores suck (for the most part—might not apply if you're near that nice place that just opened up on 86th, but even that doesn't beat the Trader Joe's in Union Square, or the one near Brooklyn Heights). You don't really get the chance to live too close to Central Park, because housing gets cheaper the farther east you go, and the UES just gets worse and worse the farther east you go, generally speaking. The restaurants start to look the same after a while, and you don't have some of the cool diversity, like you might in other parts of the city. The west side is also much better for jogging/bicycling. It also feels like there aren't as many interesting people on the UES as there are in other parts of the city. Way too many old, crotchety people for my liking.

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sunynp
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Re: NY Associates: Where to live?

Postby sunynp » Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:01 pm

I grew up on the UES. I loved it but again it isn't for everyone. It is easy to get to all the cultural stuff and stores, there are bars on the avenues. But most people are really wealthy and established. You have to get used to people grocery shopping in mink coats, etc. Your 1st year associate salary won't make a huge impression on anybody.

I guess it is difficult to be objective about a place I lived for a long time. My biggest complaint is that it is much less diverse than other neighborhoods. There are students here, but not as many as other places in the city. Also the local kids know each other from school and it can be very limited or closed to people not from here - but I think it is much friendlier and open than other places in the country, places where you have to prove extensive ties to even get an SA.

But you can find great places to live (I think), the new subway line is under construction (not sure when you can count on that) and you can walk everywhere - the UWS is easy to walk across the park too or take a bus, but the buses are crowded and can take forever crosstown. I do know some people who take the bus crosstown in the morning to get a faster or more direct westside train. Also there are buildings way over on York or 1st that provide shuttles to the subway and bus stops. Look for that in a rental if you are living that far east. People who work in midtown can walk down through the park if they want. It is easy to get to stores in Columbus Circle if you are in the 50s or 60s.

As I said before, you really need to go and spend time in places - at least go barhopping and spend time walking around on the streets, before you decide where to live. Spend a couple of days if you have to -really looking at neighborhoods. I'm not sure the UES is the best spot for nightlife, but it may be easy to get to your job from there.

If you are an SA here, you should really devote times to exploring where you might live if you come to NYC permanently.

PS - for the grocery stores a Fairway just opened up on 86th street. There is also Eli's and citarellas which are great but crazy expensive. There are good places here, but most of them are way more expensive than grocery stores in other areas. You also have D'Agostinos and other basic stores. I think Fairway is great but YMMV. Lots of people use Fresh Direct.

PPS . re running - the New york road runners club is on the UES for what that is worth.
Last edited by sunynp on Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Helmholtz
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Re: NY Associates: Where to live?

Postby Helmholtz » Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:04 pm

sunynp wrote:I grew up on the UES. I loved it but again it isn't for everyone. It is easy to get to all the cultural stuff and stores, there are bars on the avenues. But most people are really wealthy and established. You have to get used to people grocery shopping in mink coats, etc. Your 1st year associate salary won't make a huge impression on anybody.

I guess it is difficult to be objective about a place I lived for a long time. My biggest complaint is that it is much less diverse than other neighborhoods. There are students here, but not as many as other places in the city. Also the local kids know each other from school and it can be very limited or closed to people not from here - but I think it is much friendlier and open than other places in the country, places where you have to prove extensive ties to even get an SA.

But you can find great places to live (I think), the new subway line is under construction (not sure when you can count on that) and you can walk everywhere - the UWS is easy to walk across the park too or take a bus, but the buses are crowded and can take forever crosstown. I do know some people who take the bus crosstown in the morning to get a faster or more direct westside train. People who work in midtown can walk down through the park if they want. It is easy to get to stores in Columbus Circle if you are in the 50s or 60s.

As I said before, you really need to go and spend time in places - at least go barhopping and spend time walking around on the streets, before you decide where to live. Spend a couple of days if you have to -really looking at neighborhoods. I'm not sure the UES is the best spot for nightlife, but it may be easy to get to your job from there.

If you are an SA here, you should really devote times to exploring where you might live if you come to NYC permanently.

PS - for the grocery stores a Fairway just opened up on 86th street. There is also Eli's and citarellas which are great but crazy expensive. There are good places here, but most of them are way more expensive than grocery stores in other areas. You also have D'Agostinos and other basic stores. I think Fairway is great but YMMV.


Yeah, Fairway was the one I was thinking of on 86th. D'Agostinos and other local grocery stores like Morton Williams I think are awful. Inflated prices and their "fresh" produce and meats are usually quite less than "fresh," judging by the taste of them.

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sunynp
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Re: NY Associates: Where to live?

Postby sunynp » Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:09 pm

The best way to get fresh produce is to go to the farmers' market - but I don't remember the hours of the ones on the UES right now. Stuff sells out so you have to go early. I wouldn't buy most produce from a regular grocery or from Fresh Direct either.

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Helmholtz
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Re: NY Associates: Where to live?

Postby Helmholtz » Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:13 pm

sunynp wrote:The best way to get fresh produce is to go to the farmers' market - but I don't remember the hours of the ones on the UES right now. Stuff sells out so you have to go early. I wouldn't buy most produce from a regular grocery or from Fresh Direct either.


Yeah, but that's the sort of thing that you don't really want to be worrying about as a junior associate concerned about billable hours and who has a hectic work schedule. It's going to be more a type of thing of grabbing groceries when it's convenient for you. You want to be able to go to a store nearby without wondering if those kiwis you bought are actually disgusting.

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sunynp
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Re: NY Associates: Where to live?

Postby sunynp » Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:18 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
sunynp wrote:The best way to get fresh produce is to go to the farmers' market - but I don't remember the hours of the ones on the UES right now. Stuff sells out so you have to go early. I wouldn't buy most produce from a regular grocery or from Fresh Direct either.


Yeah, but that's the sort of thing that you don't really want to be worrying about as a junior associate concerned about billable hours and who has a hectic work schedule. It's going to be more a type of thing of grabbing groceries when it's convenient for you. You want to be able to go to a store nearby without wondering if those kiwis you bought are actually disgusting.


True! I think the UES could be good choice if it is convenient to where you work. You may be ordering most of your food anyway if you are working all the time. Other than that - if it isn't a convenient commute - then look elsewhere.

Though I have heard that the UES can be cheaper than other neighborhoods to rent in- at least compared to the UWS. Between the two, the UWS is probably a better choice if you can get to work easily from there.

Maybe around Lincoln Center could be good, if you can find a place.

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Re: NY Associates: Where to live?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:29 pm

Is it possible to live anywhere with a reasonable commute (45 minutes) and have a small house or duplex?

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Re: NY Associates: Where to live?

Postby mths » Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:30 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
Royal wrote:What are everyone's thoughts about the UES?


It sucks. Have lived there.

I disagree, I love it.

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Re: NY Associates: Where to live?

Postby ruski » Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Is it possible to live anywhere with a reasonable commute (45 minutes) and have a small house or duplex?


yes. pretty much anywhere from queens or bk wont take you more than 45 min. houses there are expensive though. but instead of paying 2k a month for some hole in chinatown, you might as well be paying a mortgage. assuming you can make the down payment. also try nj.

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rayiner
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Re: NY Associates: Where to live?

Postby rayiner » Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:02 pm

Anonymous User wrote:For someone a bit older who is married (but no kids), how feasible is living in a place like New Rochelle and commuting to a firm near GCT like DPW?


Doable. There are express Metro North trains that will take you from places in Westchester to GCT in 30 min or so. There is an exit from GCT into the Metlife building to get to Greenberg Traurig, and Metro North exits from 42-45th to get to DPW or STB.

New Rochelle is kinda shitty from what I hear, but White Plains is nice (has a downtown and everything). Bronxville is nice too (the downtown reminds me a bit of Palo Alto). You can find places near the train in these areas. You won't save a ton of money this way, though. A lot of the apartments near the train are modern mid/high-rise buildings with all the amenities. So the price will still be ~$2,000 for a 1BR, you'll just got a lot more for your money. You'll also have about $300/month extra in your pocket, from saving the $450/month NYC city tax but offsetting that with the $150/month Metro North pass (effectively --- it's like $220 but most firms let you pay transportation with pre-tax dollars).

The major downside is your social circle. If you don't have one in NYC already, then that might be fine --- you can make friends in Westchester. But if you know people in NYC, or have law school friends going there, it might be worth while to live in MFH.

If you're willing to go off the beaten path a little bit, look into Roosevelt Island. New Yorkers will make fun of you, but there are some great new developments there, and 2BR/2BAs can be had for $3500 or so ($1750 per person if you can entrap someone else into your madness). The island is actually really nice, very peaceful. Very clean. Every apartment has great views. Couple of restaurants right by the new developments. The grocery store sucks, but there is a RightAid for last-minute things and FreshDirect delivers there. It's also a quick 4 minute tram or subway ride to the east 60s, and there are a bunch of restaurants right across the river.

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Re: NY Associates: Where to live?

Postby NoleinNY » Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:34 pm

rayiner wrote:
NoleinNY wrote:If you get a job for Skadden, their office is close to Grand Central. Thus, if you really want to save cash, you can live in Westchester and commute by train. It's fairly cheap and quick (about 20-30 minute train ride, then a very short walk.)


Skadden's office is in TSQ. It's more than half a mile (in the NYC summer heat in a suit) through very crowded sidewalks for part of it. Not pleasant. DPW, STB, and Greenberg Traurig are well situated for that commute, though.


Half a mile? Really? It didn't feel that long walking there. It was like 5 blocks. And if one really didn't want to walk that far down 42nd street, there is a bus that runs that way...
Last edited by NoleinNY on Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: NY Associates: Where to live?

Postby keg411 » Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:37 pm

NoleinNY wrote:
rayiner wrote:
NoleinNY wrote:If you get a job for Skadden, their office is close to Grand Central. Thus, if you really want to save cash, you can live in Westchester and commute by train. It's fairly cheap and quick (about 20-30 minute train ride, then a very short walk.)


Skadden's office is in TSQ. It's more than half a mile (in the NYC summer heat in a suit) through very crowded sidewalks for part of it. Not pleasant. DPW, STB, and Greenberg Traurig are well situated for that commute, though.


Half a mile? Really? It didn't feel that long walking there.


Are you sure you're talking about Grand Central and not Penn Station? (Penn Station also opens up plenty of commuter options: NJT, LIRR, etc.). Penn Station is a lot closer to Times Square then Grand Central.

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Re: NY Associates: Where to live?

Postby NoleinNY » Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:38 pm

keg411 wrote:
NoleinNY wrote:
rayiner wrote:
NoleinNY wrote:If you get a job for Skadden, their office is close to Grand Central. Thus, if you really want to save cash, you can live in Westchester and commute by train. It's fairly cheap and quick (about 20-30 minute train ride, then a very short walk.)


Skadden's office is in TSQ. It's more than half a mile (in the NYC summer heat in a suit) through very crowded sidewalks for part of it. Not pleasant. DPW, STB, and Greenberg Traurig are well situated for that commute, though.


Half a mile? Really? It didn't feel that long walking there.


Are you sure you're talking about Grand Central and not Penn Station? (Penn Station also opens up plenty of commuter options: NJT, LIRR, etc.). Penn Station is a lot closer to Times Square then Grand Central.


I am dead sure I am talking about GCT, because I took the Croton-Harmon line in.

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Re: NY Associates: Where to live?

Postby NoleinNY » Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:44 pm

http://g.co/maps/sqarx

I will concede it is, in fact, 1/2 a mile... Which is nothing IMO. An easy walk or a very short bus ride.
Last edited by NoleinNY on Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: NY Associates: Where to live?

Postby rayiner » Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:09 pm

NoleinNY wrote:http://g.co/maps/sqarx

I will concede it is, in fact, 1/2 a mile... Which is nothing IMO. An easy walk or a very short bus ride. Unless


I mean, MFH is only 2 miles across on 42nd. What makes the walk seem long is the 30 minute train ride before hand, and the 90 degree/100% humidity weather while in a suit and work shoes. It just sucks to walk into work sweating through your shirt first thing in the morning. Though given Skadden has a gym changing at the firm would be quite doable.




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