so when i get back to school on monday will 3Ls only be

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so when i get back to school on monday will 3Ls only be

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:10 pm

talking clerkships?
i've got nothing - i'm embarrassed but i can't avoid everyone forever. eventually people will know i struck out...

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Re: so when i get back to school on monday will 3Ls only be

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:18 pm

Hey, relax and take a step back. Sometimes it can feel like everyone in the world is involved in these things and doing better at it than you are, but even at most of the absolute best law schools in country, 85-90% of students don't clerk. You are assuredly in good company. Sorry things haven't worked out for you, but no need to be embarrassed about it.

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Re: so when i get back to school on monday will 3Ls only be

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:19 pm

No, we socially awkward gunners will quit school and spend all our time in houses of prostitution spending the money we imagine we'll make from our clerkship bonuses. Thus, we won't be in school Monday. Seriously, I'm not entirely sure what I'm going to do with my time now. I didn't get a feeder, so obsessing over 3L grades is out, though I guess I could apply to one for the following year. Maybe.

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Re: so when i get back to school on monday will 3Ls only be

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:No, we socially awkward gunners will quit school and spend all our time in houses of prostitution spending the money we imagine we'll make from our clerkship bonuses. Thus, we won't be in school Monday. Seriously, I'm not entirely sure what I'm going to do with my time now. I didn't get a feeder, so obsessing over 3L grades is out, though I guess I could apply to one for the following year. Maybe.


no need to be obnoxious

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quiver
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Re: so when i get back to school on monday will 3Ls only be

Postby quiver » Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:45 pm

Crush 3L and reapply? You were in good enough shape to apply in the first place so a bump in grades and/or a rec from a different professor (not sure what went wrong for you) might very well mean that you'll snag a better clerkship than many of these people.

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Re: so when i get back to school on monday will 3Ls only be

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:52 pm

I'm not trying to be; I'm just saying that getting interviews presents its own set of problems. Like, what do you do if you strike out in interviews? That's far more painful. Or if you get hired - what do you do with your time now? If you sacrificed your fun social life at your old school to transfer to a place you hate so you could clerk, what do you do now that you are a clerk? What if your dream judge didn't give you his famous quiz, or your dream court didn't give you a call, and you're settling for something flyover? These are problems too. As a guy without a firm job, I can't afford to have your problems, but I'm not crazy about my problems either.

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rayiner
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Re: so when i get back to school on monday will 3Ls only be

Postby rayiner » Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:55 pm

More people will be talking about finding jobs and/or getting no-offered than about clerkships.

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Re: so when i get back to school on monday will 3Ls only be

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:11 pm

I also think, having externed around, that most applicants don't get what an onerous task the average clerkship is. Even as an extern, I have had to pronounce on the life or death of people on death row, become an expert on aedpa, write countless memos about aedpa, spend outlandish amounts of time worrying about whether officers had probable cause to arrest someone for knowingly receiving stolen garden equipment - or whether an officer could have reasonably believed he had pc even though he might not have had it, and whether a reasonable jury could believe that no reasonable officer could believe he had pc - spend outlandish amounts of time deciphering state court opinions that could mean or be doing any one of a hundred things because they mean nothing, write opinions about the most inane sentencing disputes imaginable, and make up con law from scratch, which is terrifying. This is what clerks do - spend days asking themselves if an intermediate state court opinion horribly written by a kid from the middle of a t2 school adjudicated an issue on the merits or not.

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Re: so when i get back to school on monday will 3Ls only be

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm not trying to be; I'm just saying that getting interviews presents its own set of problems. Like, what do you do if you strike out in interviews? That's far more painful. Or if you get hired - what do you do with your time now? If you sacrificed your fun social life at your old school to transfer to a place you hate so you could clerk, what do you do now that you are a clerk? What if your dream judge didn't give you his famous quiz, or your dream court didn't give you a call, and you're settling for something flyover? These are problems too. As a guy without a firm job, I can't afford to have your problems, but I'm not crazy about my problems either.


but you probably don't have a firm job by choice

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Re: so when i get back to school on monday will 3Ls only be

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm not trying to be; I'm just saying that getting interviews presents its own set of problems. Like, what do you do if you strike out in interviews? That's far more painful. Or if you get hired - what do you do with your time now? If you sacrificed your fun social life at your old school to transfer to a place you hate so you could clerk, what do you do now that you are a clerk? What if your dream judge didn't give you his famous quiz, or your dream court didn't give you a call, and you're settling for something flyover? These are problems too. As a guy without a firm job, I can't afford to have your problems, but I'm not crazy about my problems either.


but you probably don't have a firm job by choice


Ha! I don't have a firm job because I transferred from a school in the thirties, only bid on firms with great appellate practice groups, aka v25 plus akin gump, and then told them I wanted to be an appellate attorney. In other words, I have no firm job because I'm an idiot and my career counselor was one of those "follow your heart" idiots. However, the same skills that make my dreams of appellate advocacy slightly non-insane are those coveted by coa judges. So I really, really need a clerkship, and fortunately I'm probably getting one.

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BunkMoreland
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Re: so when i get back to school on monday will 3Ls only be

Postby BunkMoreland » Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:06 am

So glad I don't give a flip about clerking, so I can focus on not caring about 3L grades.

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Re: so when i get back to school on monday will 3Ls only be

Postby leobowski » Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:53 am

Anonymous User wrote:I also think, having externed around, that most applicants don't get what an onerous task the average clerkship is. Even as an extern, I have had to pronounce on the life or death of people on death row, become an expert on aedpa, write countless memos about aedpa, spend outlandish amounts of time worrying about whether officers had probable cause to arrest someone for knowingly receiving stolen garden equipment - or whether an officer could have reasonably believed he had pc even though he might not have had it, and whether a reasonable jury could believe that no reasonable officer could believe he had pc - spend outlandish amounts of time deciphering state court opinions that could mean or be doing any one of a hundred things because they mean nothing, write opinions about the most inane sentencing disputes imaginable, and make up con law from scratch, which is terrifying. This is what clerks do - spend days asking themselves if an intermediate state court opinion horribly written by a kid from the middle of a t2 school adjudicated an issue on the merits or not.



Yeah, uh, no you didn't.

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Re: so when i get back to school on monday will 3Ls only be

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 10, 2011 3:18 am

leobowski wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I also think, having externed around, that most applicants don't get what an onerous task the average clerkship is. Even as an extern, I have had to pronounce on the life or death of people on death row, become an expert on aedpa, write countless memos about aedpa, spend outlandish amounts of time worrying about whether officers had probable cause to arrest someone for knowingly receiving stolen garden equipment - or whether an officer could have reasonably believed he had pc even though he might not have had it, and whether a reasonable jury could believe that no reasonable officer could believe he had pc - spend outlandish amounts of time deciphering state court opinions that could mean or be doing any one of a hundred things because they mean nothing, write opinions about the most inane sentencing disputes imaginable, and make up con law from scratch, which is terrifying. This is what clerks do - spend days asking themselves if an intermediate state court opinion horribly written by a kid from the middle of a t2 school adjudicated an issue on the merits or not.



Yeah, uh, no you didn't.


Totally did. Well, sort of. So you have a guy trying to do a second/successive habeas petition - I forget all the procedural details, but it was in a posture where we had to grant a COA to hear his argument or we don't hear it. A single judge could grant the COA and then everything stops for another fun habeas go-round. But I said, no, we could not issue a COA (against tons of pushback from a couple clerks, but it was my case), his argument wasn't the least bit colorable and so we denied it. He's already had the one habeas petition a decade ago... I'm sure some stays and things are left but I certainly hastened his death. Another habeas petition would have given him an extra year or two.

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Big Shrimpin
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Re: so when i get back to school on monday will 3Ls only be

Postby Big Shrimpin » Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:35 am

BunkMoreland wrote:So glad I don't give a flip about clerking, so I can focus on not caring about 3L grades.


Same. At an effective 8%, my loans need that extra 100K in 2012-13.

But seriously, congrats to everyone with interviews and good luck!

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Re: so when i get back to school on monday will 3Ls only be

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:37 am

Anonymous User wrote:
leobowski wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I also think, having externed around, that most applicants don't get what an onerous task the average clerkship is. Even as an extern, I have had to pronounce on the life or death of people on death row, become an expert on aedpa, write countless memos about aedpa, spend outlandish amounts of time worrying about whether officers had probable cause to arrest someone for knowingly receiving stolen garden equipment - or whether an officer could have reasonably believed he had pc even though he might not have had it, and whether a reasonable jury could believe that no reasonable officer could believe he had pc - spend outlandish amounts of time deciphering state court opinions that could mean or be doing any one of a hundred things because they mean nothing, write opinions about the most inane sentencing disputes imaginable, and make up con law from scratch, which is terrifying. This is what clerks do - spend days asking themselves if an intermediate state court opinion horribly written by a kid from the middle of a t2 school adjudicated an issue on the merits or not.



Yeah, uh, no you didn't.


Totally did. Well, sort of. So you have a guy trying to do a second/successive habeas petition - I forget all the procedural details, but it was in a posture where we had to grant a COA to hear his argument or we don't hear it. A single judge could grant the COA and then everything stops for another fun habeas go-round. But I said, no, we could not issue a COA (against tons of pushback from a couple clerks, but it was my case), his argument wasn't the least bit colorable and so we denied it. He's already had the one habeas petition a decade ago... I'm sure some stays and things are left but I certainly hastened his death. Another habeas petition would have given him an extra year or two.


This sounds intense.

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npe
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Re: so when i get back to school on monday will 3Ls only be

Postby npe » Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:40 am

Anonymous User wrote:
leobowski wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I also think, having externed around, that most applicants don't get what an onerous task the average clerkship is. Even as an extern, I have had to pronounce on the life or death of people on death row, become an expert on aedpa, write countless memos about aedpa, spend outlandish amounts of time worrying about whether officers had probable cause to arrest someone for knowingly receiving stolen garden equipment - or whether an officer could have reasonably believed he had pc even though he might not have had it, and whether a reasonable jury could believe that no reasonable officer could believe he had pc - spend outlandish amounts of time deciphering state court opinions that could mean or be doing any one of a hundred things because they mean nothing, write opinions about the most inane sentencing disputes imaginable, and make up con law from scratch, which is terrifying. This is what clerks do - spend days asking themselves if an intermediate state court opinion horribly written by a kid from the middle of a t2 school adjudicated an issue on the merits or not.



Yeah, uh, no you didn't.


Totally did. Well, sort of. So you have a guy trying to do a second/successive habeas petition - I forget all the procedural details, but it was in a posture where we had to grant a COA to hear his argument or we don't hear it. A single judge could grant the COA and then everything stops for another fun habeas go-round. But I said, no, we could not issue a COA (against tons of pushback from a couple clerks, but it was my case), his argument wasn't the least bit colorable and so we denied it. He's already had the one habeas petition a decade ago... I'm sure some stays and things are left but I certainly hastened his death. Another habeas petition would have given him an extra year or two.


You're cute.

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Re: so when i get back to school on monday will 3Ls only be

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:40 am

f7 wrote:
rayiner wrote:More people will be talking about finding jobs and/or getting no-offered than about clerkships.

+1. And it's incredibly awkward.


that many people getting no-offered?

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JazzOne
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Re: so when i get back to school on monday will 3Ls only be

Postby JazzOne » Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:15 pm

BunkMoreland wrote:So glad I don't give a flip about clerking, so I can focus on not caring about 3L grades.

+1




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